C-17 Globemaster III (IAF)

[Defcon 1]

Didn't someone just say that the C17 can carry only one Arjun at a time?

Probably not even one of the mk2 version since it weighs 67 tonnes. Anyways Arjuns will be used against pakistan if at all. For chinese, we need lighter tanks.

 

[JBH22]

Definitely. But what about an emergency situation which would entail huge armour mobilization within 24Hrs?

The situation you are envisaging can be handled only through roads or railways, massive armour mobilisation using C-17s is just not possible.

I mean the C-17 can carry only 1 T-72.

 

[Defcon 1]

The situation you are envisaging can be handled only through roads or railways, massive armour mobilisation using C-17s is just not possible.

I mean the C-17 can carry only 1 T-72.

Please read about Siliguri corridor. The problem India has still has a chicken's neck. If China chooses to attack north-east, destroying roads between north east and rest of India will be a child's play for them. That is why we have trying so hard for years to gain transit rights from Bangladesh and are developing a new waterway through myanmar. That is also the reason we need to have strategic airlift capabilities in addition to what Yusuf already said.

 

[JBH22]

Please read about Siliguri corridor. The problem India has still has a chicken's neck. If China chooses to attack north-east, destroying roads between north east and rest of India will be a child's play for them. That is why we have trying so hard for years to gain transit rights from Bangladesh and are developing a new waterway through myanmar. That is also the reason we need to have strategic airlift capabilities in addition to what Yusuf already said.

If China manage to cut it this means massive use of force. It would be a pincer movement to cut down troops stucked in North East and do you think that a couple of C-17s are a game changer. Let me tell you the C-17 is a force multiplier not a wonder weapon at the end of day troop mobilisation will have to be done through "traditional" means that is roads, railways.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Tanks may not be the best item to transport this to northeast terrain howitzers or pinaka along
With a sqadron or two being able to land anywhere definitely offers a strategic advantage, if chinese
Do take a position I doubt they would hold it long , then destroy their supply lines and slaughter.

 

[Defcon 1]

If China manage to cut it this means massive use of force. It would be a pincer movement to cut down troops stucked in North East and do you think that a couple of C-17s are a game changer. Let me tell you the C-17 is a force multiplier not a wonder weapon at the end of day troop mobilisation will have to be done through "traditional" means that is roads, railways.

No one is saying couple of C17s are game changers. That is why I have mentioned that we are developing transit routes with bangladesh and myanmar. but c17s can get you there faster. even lesser number of troops are valuable if reached within time. Sometimes all that you need is to hold a position that reinforcements arrive.

Secondly, cutting off Siliguri corridor doesn't require massive use of force. Chinese need to advance less than 100 kms. plant some bombs on the roads, cutting them off. If they could use airpower, it will even more easier. If that happens then you will miss C17s dearly.

 

[arnabmit]

The situation you are envisaging can be handled only through roads or railways, massive armour mobilisation using C-17s is just not possible.

I mean the C-17 can carry only 1 T-72.

Exactly my point! C-17 cannot do it.

But a fleet of 6 An-124 carrying 4 T-90s each can deliver 24 MBTs to any remote corner of India within 6hrs, including loading and off-loading. That's 48 MBTs in a day, 96 if night flying is included.

Now to have 6 An-124 flying at any time, the fleet should be of at-least 10 crafts. This is the point of the discussion.

 

[Yusuf]

Exactly my point! C-17 cannot do it.

But a fleet of 6 An-124 carrying 4 T-90s each can deliver 24 MBTs to any remote corner of India within 6hrs, including loading and off-loading. That's 48 MBTs in a day, 96 if night flying is included.

Now to have 6 An-124 flying at any time, the fleet should be of at-least 10 crafts. This is the point of the discussion.

Where will you land the plane?

 

[Yusuf]

First of all we cannot use MBTs in the mountain region. What we need is to transport light howitzers,may be MLRS (MBRL) loads of ammo for the soldiers.

And yes we need to buy the god damn light howitzers

 

[drkrn]

Exactly my point! C-17 cannot do it.

But a fleet of 6 An-124 carrying 4 T-90s each can deliver 24 MBTs to any remote corner of India within 6hrs, including loading and off-loading. That's 48 MBTs in a day, 96 if night flying is included.

Now to have 6 An-124 flying at any time, the fleet should be of at-least 10 crafts. This is the point of the discussion.

AN-124 has a payload of 150 tons.at max 2 arjun, t-90 at a time

 

[DivineHeretic]

If China manage to cut it this means massive use of force. It would be a pincer movement to cut down troops stucked in North East and do you think that a couple of C-17s are a game changer. Let me tell you the C-17 is a force multiplier not a wonder weapon at the end of day troop mobilisation will have to be done through "traditional" means that is roads, railways.

Just to correct you slightly,

Any attempt at cutting off Siliguri corridor would require an air assault, not Para borne assault but air assault. Any ground based attempt will take too long to be successful without massive casualties on the PLA side. Also, they would themselves be very much exposed to a double front squeeze.

As it is, the entire Eastern sector has railway lines running right trough the Chicken's nest. And if no one here is aware, there are armored groups in the North East too, at less than 4 hours call from Guwahati. Take that into account and these groups could be deployed to Siliguri within 12-15 hrs. That's just one side of the story.

The only way PLA could push into Siliguri corridor is if they first make plains after capturing Arunachal Pradesh, as otherwise the armored groups will be free to deploy to the Chicken's neck area.

 

[DivineHeretic]

No one is saying couple of C17s are game changers. That is why I have mentioned that we are developing transit routes with bangladesh and myanmar. but c17s can get you there faster. even lesser number of troops are valuable if reached within time. Sometimes all that you need is to hold a position that reinforcements arrive.

Secondly, cutting off Siliguri corridor doesn't require massive use of force. Chinese need to advance less than 100 kms. plant some bombs on the roads, cutting them off. If they could use airpower, it will even more easier. If that happens then you will miss C17s dearly.

I'll correct your second opinion slightly.

The Siliguri corridor is a strategist's nightmare as far as capturing it is concerned. You have to force your way through mountains, your supply line reliant exclusively on airlift or mule trains over 100 kms, and when you finally reach the corridor, you have to face the 4 corps ( HQ at Tezpur, 3 hrs from Guwahati) and the Eastern Command HQ at Fort William.

Also add to the mix the new 4th strike corps in the area and you have a massive headache. And the include the Assam Rifles and the CRPF and the BSF which are deployed in internal security duties in Bongaigaon and Goalpara and Dhubri districts, just 3-5 hrs away from Siliguri.

 

[arnabmit]

AN-124 has a payload of 150 tons.at max 2 arjun, t-90 at a time

Wiki says

Useful load: 230,000 kg (508,000 lb)

EDIT: Technical

 

[Defcon 1]

Just to correct you slightly,

Any attempt at cutting off Siliguri corridor would require an air assault, not Para borne assault but air assault. Any ground based attempt will take too long to be successful without massive casualties on the PLA side. Also, they would themselves be very much exposed to a double front squeeze.

As it is, the entire Eastern sector has railway lines running right trough the Chicken's nest. And if no one here is aware, there are armored groups in the North East too, at less than 4 hours call from Guwahati. Take that into account and these groups could be deployed to Siliguri within 12-15 hrs. That's just one side of the story.

The only way PLA could push into Siliguri corridor is if they first make plains after capturing Arunachal Pradesh, as otherwise the armored groups will be free to deploy to the Chicken's neck area.

I am not talking about capturing it, merely destroying the road and railway links so reinforcements cannot reach NE in time and then launching the main attack at NE. No supply lines are required to do that. When and if that happens, it will be so sudden you won't have time to react. you are talking about 12-15 hrs. you won't even know about it until the chinese have destroyed the link and went back safely. There is a reason why Siliguri corridor has been on the target of IDR. There won't be any double front squeeze because chinese won't stay. They want AP, not chicken's neck.

PS: attack on Siliguri corridor will come from Thumbi valley, not AP since thumbi provides shortest distance.

 

[arnabmit]

I'll correct your second opinion slightly.

The Siliguri corridor is a strategist's nightmare as far as capturing it is concerned. You have to force your way through mountains, your supply line reliant exclusively on airlift or mule trains over 100 kms, and when you finally reach the corridor, you have to face the 4 corps ( HQ at Tezpur, 3 hrs from Guwahati) and the Eastern Command HQ at Fort William.

Also add to the mix the new 4th strike corps in the area and you have a massive headache. And the include the Assam Rifles and the CRPF and the BSF which are deployed in internal security duties in Bongaigaon and Goalpara and Dhubri districts, just 3-5 hrs away from Siliguri.

Not to mention, Sukna/Sevok Forrest, next to Siliguri, is the home to 33 Corps of the Eastern Command. It comprises three mountain divisions, 17th (Gangtok), 20th (Binaguri), and 27th (Kalimpong) and an Artillery Brigade.The total troop strength of the 33 Corps is estimated to be between 45,000 and 60,000 soldiers.

 

[drkrn]

Wiki says

EDIT: Technical

even this site shows max payload at 150 tons

 

[arnabmit]

even this site shows max payload at 150 tons

It says Useful load: 230,000 kg (508,000 lb)

 

[DivineHeretic]

I am not talking about capturing it, merely destroying the road and railway links so reinforcements cannot reach NE in time and then launching the main attack at NE. No supply lines are required to do that. When and if that happens, it will be so sudden you won't have time to react. you are talking about 12-15 hrs. you won't even know about it until the chinese have destroyed the link and went back safely. There is a reason why Siliguri corridor has been on the target of IDR. There won't be any double front squeeze because chinese won't stay. They want AP, not chicken's neck.

PS: attack on Siliguri corridor will come from Thumbi valley, not AP since thumbi provides shortest distance.

You can destroy a road link, no doubt. But how many kilometers do you destroy?? You cant go about obliterating hundreds of kilometers of railway network. Just not feasible.

Now for the road link. How do you destroy a road link? Bombing it, showering it with runway denial minitions perhaps. Then what happens? There is perfectly good enough plain area around the road which can be used to move vehicles. And in any case, till a few years back the roads were so full of potholes one would be forgiven to think the road was bombed to high heaven.

You could target bridges though. But then Bear in mind after Brahmaputra bridge near Goalpara there is no major bridge that can be destroyed as a stopping bloc to Siliguri. And even then there is another way which is rougly the same distance from Guwahati, through Barpeta Chariali. And thats solid road.

There is a reason armies cut off road routes by force presence or use of artillery as area denial weapons and not by air strikes or missile strikes. It just doesnt work. Even during 1971, we simply avoided roads and marched into Dhaka. The lack of roads did not stun us then, did they?

If the Chinese want to cut off NE, they will have to put in men on the ground, or nuke the plce to high heaven.

And when I mentioned about AP, I meant that such an attack would have to break into the plains and engage the armored groups in NE, or else these very groups would be available for combat in Siliguri

 

[drkrn]

It says Useful load: 230,000 kg (508,000 lb)

Useful load vs. Payload | Ask a Flight Instructor

 

[arnabmit]

Thanks! Didn't know this...

Useful load vs. Payload | Ask a Flight Instructor