AWACS will change Asia's military dynamics

[Dark_Prince]

India to Buy A-50EI AWACS from Russia

India to Buy A-50EI AWACS from Russia


The Indian Air Force (IAF) has begun negotiating for nine more A-50EI aircraft from Russia. India aims to acquire three of the A-50EI aircraft under the main contract and have another six in an option.

The recent negotiations are a part of a trilateral contract between Russia, India and Israel, which was formalised in October 2003. As a part of the contract for the supply of the A-50EI aircraft, Russia is represented by the firms Beriev, Ilyushin and Vega while Israel is represented by ELTA Electronics Industries, which supplies the Falcon radar for the aircraft.

The A-50EI airborne early warning aircraft is the export version of the Beriev A-50 Shmel, with the Phalcon radar from Israel. The Russian firm Beriev manufactured the A-50 aircraft and it is based on the Ilyushin Il-76 transport aircraft with PS-90A engines.

While India received the first A-50EI from Russia in mid 2009, the rest of the two are expected to be supplied to India this year. As for the Indian Air Force, it has been a long wait for these airborne early warning aircraft. Originally, Israel and India signed a US$1.1 billion deal, according to which Israeli Aircraft Industries would deliver the Indian Air Force three Phalcon Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) radar system in March 2004. India signed a separate deal with the Ilyushin Corporation of Russia for the supply of three Il-76-based A-50EI heavy-lift aircraft which were to be used as platforms for these radar systems, for an additional US$500 million. In November 2007, the Indian Defence Ministry faced major delays in the supply of the Russian Il-76 platform and the induction of the Phalcon radar was now postponed to 2009-10.

http://indiadefenceonline.com/1770/india-to-buy-a-50ei-awacs-from-russia/

 

[Rage]

That was always the consolidated figure in my mind: 8 or 9 AEW&CS. I estimated 2 for Southwestern Air Command; 1 for Western Air Command; 1 for Central Air Command; 2 for Eastern Air Command: one each patrolling the north and south purlieus; and 1 for Southern Air Command, with possibly 2 kept in reserve.

 

[Dark_Prince]

What I have heard from IAF guys is that Minimum of 9 AWACS for India!!

 

[StealthSniper]

The Second Phalcon AWACS (KW-3552) Before Its Flight To India!

 

[JayChennai]

More than 9, close to 15 or even more, 9 PHALCON. 9 this and unspecified our own

 

[JAISWAL]

what happen to follow on order of 3 more of previous deal.
ok so total =(3+3+9)= 15 awacs :-! confused HELP-?

 

[A.V.]

now talking about the numbers we need to ask 3 points

1. HOW MANY DO WE HAVE?
2.HOW MANY DO WE NEED?
3.HOW MANY DO WE PROPOSE to have< assuming need /=/ proposed>


1. presently we have 2 in service with SQDR 50 based in AGRA ... 1 more to arrive ....that makes 3 in total...
this additional proposal will take the order to 9

now the interesting part IN wants to have their own AWECS platform and maintain them in the coastlines so we have IAF AWACS and IN AWACS now till now 9 IAF awacs can be clearly viewed
for IN they have 8 in proposed order< http://indiadefenceonline.com/1077/govt-approves-acquisition-of-russian-kamov-31-choppers/ >
thats 5 there and 3 more also present earlier

The KA-31 helicopter is intended for long-range detection of air targets of a fixed-wing/helicopter type, including detection at low altitudes, and over-water ships, their tracking and automatic transmission of their data to the command posts.
One visually distinctive feature of the Ka-31 is the large antenna of the early warning radar, which is either rotating or folded and stowed under the fuselage.

the indigenous DRDO awacs post successful trials on 2010 is viewed as 12 ... as per drdo sources< link to be pasted>


now how many do we need ....?

To respond to China's calibrated hostility and Pakistan's incurable hostility, the Indian armed forces have to defend nearly 15,200 km of land frontier, 7,517 km of coastline (including Andaman and Nicobar and the Lakshadweep islands) and the airspace above it.
We need as many as 30 AWACS to patrol this vast geographical expanse round-the-clock,
http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/...n-the-need-for-a-military-space-programme.htm
more similar authentic links...
will add the links justfying the number 27 that i was mentioning on shoutbox

 

[mayfair]

Just a couple of questions here-

1. Is it necessary to have all the AWACS on the same platform, in this case A-50EI? I recall some recent reports saying that IAF was looking for a more modern and reliable platform than IL-76, but from these reports it seems that we are content with A-50EI.

2. How much is this deal expected to cost (New Phalcons plus the platform)?

3. Is it possible to link a maritime surveillance aircraft such as P8I Posedion with our exiting AWACS and proposed AEW&CS?

 

[sob]

This whole thing is getting very confusing. IAF is going in for C17 and C130 J. For the new refueling aircraft Airbus is the favorite choice of the IAF. In both these cases the obvious competitor was the IL 76 family.
No this new contract is with IL 76 again. In my view this will lead to some logistical nightmares for the IAF.

Also could somebody shed some light what would be the difference in capabilities wrt the Phalcon Awacs.

 

[xebex]

India to Buy A-50EI AWACS from Russia


The Indian Air Force (IAF) has begun negotiating for nine more A-50EI aircraft from Russia. India aims to acquire three of the A-50EI aircraft under the main contract and have another six in an option.

The recent negotiations are a part of a trilateral contract between Russia, India and Israel, which was formalised in October 2003. As a part of the contract for the supply of the A-50EI aircraft, Russia is represented by the firms Beriev, Ilyushin and Vega while Israel is represented by ELTA Electronics Industries, which supplies the Falcon radar for the aircraft.

The A-50EI airborne early warning aircraft is the export version of the Beriev A-50 Shmel, with the Phalcon radar from Israel. The Russian firm Beriev manufactured the A-50 aircraft and it is based on the Ilyushin Il-76 transport aircraft with PS-90A engines.

While India received the first A-50EI from Russia in mid 2009, the rest of the two are expected to be supplied to India this year. As for the Indian Air Force, it has been a long wait for these airborne early warning aircraft. Originally, Israel and India signed a US$1.1 billion deal, according to which Israeli Aircraft Industries would deliver the Indian Air Force three Phalcon Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) radar system in March 2004. India signed a separate deal with the Ilyushin Corporation of Russia for the supply of three Il-76-based A-50EI heavy-lift aircraft which were to be used as platforms for these radar systems, for an additional US$500 million. In November 2007, the Indian Defence Ministry faced major delays in the supply of the Russian Il-76 platform and the induction of the Phalcon radar was now postponed to 2009-10.

http://indiadefenceonline.com/1770/india-to-buy-a-50ei-awacs-from-russia/

Guys, I think this news report is totally misleading. We DO NOT own any A-50EI. I think the reporter is confused or may be am the one confused. What we own is an Israeli Phalcon AWAC system mounted on a Russian IL76 platform. Now, A-50EI is also based on IL76 platfrom, but that AWAC system is Russian made. How can we call ours "A-50EI airborne early warning aircraft" when the radar system is by Israeli? its just a IL76 frame as far as I see. Can somebody help me understand this plz. :S

 

[p2prada]

Guys, I think this news report is totally misleading. We DO NOT own any A-50EI. I think the reporter is confused or may be am the one confused. What we own is an Israeli Phalcon AWAC system mounted on a Russian IL76 platform. Now, A-50EI is also based on IL76 platfrom, but that AWAC system is Russian made. How can we call ours "A-50EI airborne early warning aircraft" when the radar system is by Israeli? its just a IL76 frame as far as I see. Can somebody help me understand this plz. :S

What we call Phalcon AWACS is the wrong term for the plane. The right name is A-50EI. We have 2 A-50EIs with a Phalcon radar mounted on it. The A-50 is a Russian designation given to a modified IL-76.

 

[Agantrope]

Cross Posting

India requests deal for three more AEW aircraft

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/sh...nd-Discussions&p=130496&viewfull=1#post130496

 

[nandu]

AWACS in the IAF

The arrival of the AWACS (Air Borne Warning and Control System) is a formidable leap for the Indian Air Force (IAF) in initiating a new structure in the air defence network for India but only a small step towards filling this capability gap. The term generically means an airborne radar system designed to detect aircraft. With the advantage of high altitude, the radars can scan air spaces, over the horizon, hundred of miles away and the returns can be effectively treated to distinguish between friendly and hostile aircraft. Linked with appropriate communication networks, it can direct and control both defensive and offensive air operations. Fighter interceptors can be guided to engage intruding hostile targets and counter-strikes can be launched to neutralize sources. Thematically, it has evolved as a platform for surveillance, command and control and battle management.

The IAF has been clamouring for this system for over three decades spurred with a view to not only augment its surveillance potential but equally essentially, as a force multiplier. The latter construes economies of effort in marshalling resources. During the Cold War and in the era of resource shortages, the Indian government had pursued an indigenous development of the system under the aegis of the DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation). This project termed as the ASWAC (Air Borne Surveillance Warning and Control Systems) was eventually halted and abandoned for good when in 1999, the mother AVRO aircraft crashed in the Nilgiri hills of Tamil Nadu with the experimental system on board. The accident was caused by the rotodome shearing off and hitting the tail of the aircraft. The IAF then tested the Russian AE-50 system, a variation of the IL-76 aircraft but did not find it satisfactory for Indian needs.

India’s air defence network can only receive a favourable appraisal, if it can effectively engage and neutralize a hostile intruder well beyond its defined protected air space. It contains a suitably linked chain of ground-based fixed and movable radars that control an equally distributed chain of fighter aircraft and surface-to-air missiles to engage the intruder. Although upgraded over the years, to provide for an appropriate reaction time to cater for threats such as an ingress at ultra-low altitudes, some difficulties in reduced warning periods may still exist in the northern Himalayan region due to difficulties in locating a Radar. Whilst in peacetime, this may be adequate as the national boundaries are the limiting criterion, in the event of hostilities, however, the forward shifting battle zones would also need to be managed. The AWACS would purposefully provide this edge.

The Israeli Phalcon Radar mounted on the Russian IL-76 aircraft equipped with the more powerful PS-90A engines, for the Indian AWACS will easily possess a capacity to react to hostile targets at distances of 500kms from its position in the air. As a formidable constituent of the mother network, operating at 30,000 feet the Radar has the capacity to scan from ground level to 40,000 feet. The higher altitudes are already closely monitored by ground-based systems. The operations are supported by on-board ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) and ECCM (Electronic Counter Counter Measures) systems for electronic warfare. Passive Comint devices record data up to a thousand kilometres. An ECM package is incorporated for-self protection. However, contrary to a view circulating in the media, the AWACS are neither designed nor equipped to deal with the threats from either a small radar signature cruise missile or a high trajectory ICBM/IRBM. The latter would be easily spotted by the ground-based network well before they come to the notice of AWACS. On ballistic missile defences, therefore, India is working separately to meet the challenges.

A crucial aspect is the awareness that it is not a platform to remain perennially in the air, performing the duties of a combat air patrol. With a motley fleet of three by 2010, the systems are only sufficient for contingencies and will need to be judiciously protected and utilized to develop expertise.

This induction should not be construed as an arms race as the development of a similar system has been in progress in China, well before India chose to induct the Phalcon AWACS. In fact, the Israeli manufacturers had initially worked on a Chinese version on a similar Russian platform which was stopped at the behest of the US government. Since then they have worked continuously, in concert with the Russian manufactures to produce as many as ten aircraft. In the case of Pakistan, the primary issue is one of acquisition by India and not of a qualitative change in their threat perception from India.


http://www.ipcs.org/article/air-force/awacs-in-the-iaf-2879.html

 

[enlightened1]

KW-3552 taking off...

 

[BunBunCake]

Here is a table....

Guys, I don't know where these +9 awacs and all are coming up. According to sources, only 4 are ON ORDER, and 2 in Service.
There is an OPTION for another 3, but not yet ordered by IAF. Let's not talk about unconfirmed news yet......

Below is table attached on what we have now, and what we will have by confirmed sources. Another 3 Phalcons MAY be ordered, but MOD hasn't yet approved yet.

But for now:

 

[BunBunCake]

Just a couple of questions here-

1. Is it necessary to have all the AWACS on the same platform, in this case A-50EI? I recall some recent reports saying that IAF was looking for a more modern and reliable platform than IL-76, but from these reports it seems that we are content with A-50EI.

No, it is not necessary. IAF has ordered 3 AWACS from Drdo which will be much smaller than A-50. Similar to PAF's AWACS from Sweden.

2. How much is this deal expected to cost (New Phalcons plus the platform)?

Radar = $1.1 Billion
Aircraft = $500 Million

Total cost for 3 AWACS = $1.6 Billion

3. Is it possible to link a maritime surveillance aircraft such as P8I Posedion with our exiting AWACS and proposed AEW&CS?

No
P8I is US aircraft. I'm not sure of the tech restrictions set by the US, but I am sure there are indeed some set in place. (afterall, it's the US)

Guys, I think this news report is totally misleading. We DO NOT own any A-50EI. I think the reporter is confused or may be am the one confused. What we own is an Israeli Phalcon AWAC system mounted on a Russian IL76 platform. Now, A-50EI is also based on IL76 platfrom, but that AWAC system is Russian made. How can we call ours "A-50EI airborne early warning aircraft" when the radar system is by Israeli? its just a IL76 frame as far as I see. Can somebody help me understand this plz. :S

Sir, we DO have the A-50's. You must've been confused as IAF uses IL-76 as transport. But we will have 3 A-50's for our AWACS.

 

[frankenstein]

will this new deal include TOT

 

[Agantrope]

will this new deal include TOT

I dont think so. Flight will be made in th russia and assembling will be done in the Israel. No TOT will happens as of now

 

[RPK]

http://expressbuzz.com/nation/india-sees-a-new-friend-in-brazil/168278.html

EMB-145 AEW-C platforms are already operational with the Swedish Erieye radar, which is being used by Brazilian, Greek and Mexican air forces. But he said that the AEW radar and electronic suite developed by the DRDO had many new features compared to those of the Erieye.

The Erieye has well-known AN/APY- 1/2 radars, which have many advantages as they have a better electronic survey capabilities.

The delivery schedule chalked out for the delivery of Indo-Brazil AEW platform does not seem to be realistic though and delays were expected.

 

[nandu]

Third AWACS delivery expected by December

New Delhi, May 5 (PTI) Government today said the delivery of third AWACS aircraft to the Indian Air Force is expected by December this year.

India had signed a contract with Israel in 2004 for supplying three AWACS aircraft, of which the first two have been already delivered.

"Delivery of the third aircraft is planned for December 2010," Defence Minister A K Antony said in reply to a question in Rajya Sabha.

He said additional AWACS would be procured by India under the 12th, 13th and 14th Plans and the DRDO was also developing an indigenous system for the IAF.

In reply to another query, the Minister said 48.3 per cent of the accidents in the IAF were due to technical defects, 37.9 per cent were due to human error and 8.6 per cent were caused by bird hits.