Astra BVRAAM

[IndianHawk]

Do we have any details of dimensions of Astra Mk-2 and time for first test??

Testing was supposed to start by the end of this year.

There is a cfd model posted by @porky_kicker somewhere. It looks bit longer due to dual pulse .

 

[WolfPack86]

Astra IR could bring a new dimension in IAF Aerial Firepower

Astra Mk1 with Active RF seeker has moved from the developmental stage to the production stage after both IAF and Navy agreed to procure 248 missiles along with 50 which were ordered first a new milestone for the homegrown Beyond Visual range air to air missile technology in the country. While the country waits for DRDO to hold on to its promise and deliver even a longer range Astra Mk2, it has now come in a foray that the DRDO is also working on Astra Passive imaging IR seeker variant which might be ready much before Astra Mk2. IR guidance has long been the predominant mode for the short-range AAMs, with radar guidance preferred for longer-range weapons. Astra IR along with Astra RF this means that fighter jets will be able the option of ripple-firing two missiles one radar-guided and the other IR at the same target to sharpen the defensive challenge for the target aircraft. Since IR seekers are passive and do not emit signals, like active radar seekers there is a reduced chance of detection by the target aircraft’s defensive aid suite. Astra IR will complement Astra RF for medium and extended-range air-to-air engagement and a combination of both active radar and IR is more difficult to defeat through countermeasures since Pilot will be overwhelmed trying to deploy two levels of countermeasures to defeat Astra IR and Astra RF which were fired together.

Astra IR could bring a new dimension in IAF Aerial Firepower – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[BON PLAN]

Astra IR could bring a new dimension in IAF Aerial Firepower

Astra Mk1 with Active RF seeker has moved from the developmental stage to the production stage after both IAF and Navy agreed to procure 248 missiles along with 50 which were ordered first a new milestone for the homegrown Beyond Visual range air to air missile technology in the country. While the country waits for DRDO to hold on to its promise and deliver even a longer range Astra Mk2, it has now come in a foray that the DRDO is also working on Astra Passive imaging IR seeker variant which might be ready much before Astra Mk2. IR guidance has long been the predominant mode for the short-range AAMs, with radar guidance preferred for longer-range weapons. Astra IR along with Astra RF this means that fighter jets will be able the option of ripple-firing two missiles one radar-guided and the other IR at the same target to sharpen the defensive challenge for the target aircraft. Since IR seekers are passive and do not emit signals, like active radar seekers there is a reduced chance of detection by the target aircraft’s defensive aid suite. Astra IR will complement Astra RF for medium and extended-range air-to-air engagement and a combination of both active radar and IR is more difficult to defeat through countermeasures since Pilot will be overwhelmed trying to deploy two levels of countermeasures to defeat Astra IR and Astra RF which were fired together.

Astra IR could bring a new dimension in IAF Aerial Firepower – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

It is an asset of the MICA missiles : the opponent don't know what kind of counter measures to use and what manoeuvers to realize !
So a good news for Indian defense.

 

[fire starter]

Astra IR will have reduced range, trials likely in 2022.

A variant of the Astra Beyond Visual Range Air to Air (BVRAAM) missile under development with a passive imaging IR seeker might be ready for initial trials from 2022 onwards said informed sources close to idrw.org. Astra IR with a dual waveband, passive imaging IR seeker will provide terminal guidance that will be powered by a smoke-less solid propellant with higher impulse motor for improved performance at Within visual combat at the reduced range. Astra IR minimum and maximum operating ranges likely will be 500 m to 60 km due to seeker track limitation found in IR air to air missiles world over. Astra IR will be capable of operating in lock-on before launch and lock-on after launch modes and IR seeker will allow the missile to autonomously detect, track and lock-on the targets. Astra IR can be adapted on all fighter types in IAF since it doesn’t require deep integration with the aircraft’s Mission Computers (MC). Astra IR is an interim Medium range Air to Air missile which has been designed to supplement Astra MK1 RF (active radar homing head ) till work begins on a much shorter range Next Generation Close Combat (NGCCM) Within Visual Range (WVR) Air to Air missile to be developed by DRDO for Indian air force jets. DRDO also has two separate long-range Air to Air missile programs known as Astra Mk2 (With Dual-Pulse propulsion) and Astra Mk3 (With Air-breathing ramjet propulsion) and NGCCM will be developed post completion of this longer-range missiles first as IAF moves to equip most of the fighter jets in its fleet with MBDA’s ASRAAM (Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile) Close combat Missiles.

 

[Bleh]

Astra IR minimum and maximum operating ranges likely will be 500 m to 60 km

Max range is great! Most IRST AAMs can operate as both upto 40-45km away.

But 500m lowest may be problematic... That make any maneuvering enemy jet within 200-300m completely safe as long as it can stay out of direct gun-sight (not for TVC jets like Su-30 tho but like this);

 

[patriots]

Max range is great! Most IRST AAMs can operate as both upto 40-45km away.

But 500m lowest may be problematic... That make any maneuvering enemy jet within 200-300m completely safe as long as it can stay out of direct gun-sight (not for TVC jets like Su-30 tho but like this);

Limited information available on astra ir.....and the I have not seen the claimed range any where .......
Again drdo should cut the fuel...to reduce the weight of the missile... otherwise it cannot be carried by outer Pylon s ....or also not in twin rack configuration....

 

[Emperor Kalki]

Yeah, DMR. Chinese are good at playing with words. DMR doesn't increase range per se. It only enables a RAMJET engine to perform at subsonic speed along with supersonic speed. So technically you don't require a rocket motor to boost the missile.
But Chinese sure would increase the range by transgressing in the distance territory.

I thought dual mode ramjet was only a supersonic-hypersonic combo.....is such a subsonic-supersonic mode also referred to as dual mode ramjet....?

 

[Alfalfa]

Max range is great! Most IRST AAMs can operate as both upto 40-45km away.

But 500m lowest may be problematic... That make any maneuvering enemy jet within 200-300m completely safe as long as it can stay out of direct gun-sight (not for TVC jets like Su-30 tho but like this);

Uhm what?
No Dogfight happens in sub 500 m distances.. these guys cover these distances in a second.. mach 1 is 350 m/s.... Only extremely tight turns happen in somewhat close ranges and even if for some bizarre reason the turn radius is actually that low no missile can sustain THAT level of G, but even 500m is well within the safe range of what it should be, .. Outer range is always the issue

 

[Bleh]

Uhm what?
No Dogfight happens in sub 500 m distances.. these guys cover these distances in a second.. mach 1 is 350 m/s....

But do you actually know that, or just assuming?.. I've come across several cases from '60s-'70s even where debris from the shot down jet damaged the shooter.

Tejas has minimum turning radius of 350m, F-16 has 300m. So two of them scissoring each other at hard turns trying to get the other to overshoot, may very possibly end up within that distance for quite a long time. As relative speed won't be that high, modern HMDS can maintain a lock looking at each other.

I looked up some DCS simulations & there often close in maneuvering within that range trying to manage a lock-on... in one case they clipped each other's wings during an overshoot. You can look up some pro fighter pilots competing against each other.

 

[Alfalfa]

But do you actually know that, or just assuming?.. I've come across several cases from '60s-'70s even where debris from the shot down jet damaged the shooter.
View attachment 55263
Tejas has minimum turning radius of 350m, F-16 has 300m. So two of them scissoring each other at hard turns trying to get the other to overshoot, may very possibly end up within that distance for quite a long time. As relative speed won't be that high, modern HMDS can maintain a lock looking at each other.

I looked up some DCS simulations & there often close in maneuvering within that range trying to manage a lock-on... in one case they clipped each other's wings during an overshoot. You can look up some pro fighter pilots competing against each other.

Well then I learnt something new today... these are edge cases was my point

 

[Bleh]

Well then I learnt something new today... these are edge cases was my point

Watch this. Will help realise my concerns... Note the relative speed & distances.

 

[BON PLAN]

Astra IR will have reduced range, trials likely in 2022.

A variant of the Astra Beyond Visual Range Air to Air (BVRAAM) missile under development with a passive imaging IR seeker might be ready for initial trials from 2022 onwards said informed sources close to idrw.org. Astra IR with a dual waveband, passive imaging IR seeker will provide terminal guidance that will be powered by a smoke-less solid propellant with higher impulse motor for improved performance at Within visual combat at the reduced range. Astra IR minimum and maximum operating ranges likely will be 500 m to 60 km due to seeker track limitation found in IR air to air missiles world over. Astra IR will be capable of operating in lock-on before launch and lock-on after launch modes and IR seeker will allow the missile to autonomously detect, track and lock-on the targets. Astra IR can be adapted on all fighter types in IAF since it doesn’t require deep integration with the aircraft’s Mission Computers (MC). Astra IR is an interim Medium range Air to Air missile which has been designed to supplement Astra MK1 RF (active radar homing head ) till work begins on a much shorter range Next Generation Close Combat (NGCCM) Within Visual Range (WVR) Air to Air missile to be developed by DRDO for Indian air force jets. DRDO also has two separate long-range Air to Air missile programs known as Astra Mk2 (With Dual-Pulse propulsion) and Astra Mk3 (With Air-breathing ramjet propulsion) and NGCCM will be developed post completion of this longer-range missiles first as IAF moves to equip most of the fighter jets in its fleet with MBDA’s ASRAAM (Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile) Close combat Missiles.

As MICA IR versus MICA EM. The IR nose cone is less aero shapped.

 

[LondonParisTokyo]

Have orders for Astra been placed?

 

[Bleh]

Have orders for Astra been placed?

An initial batch of 248 Mark1... More will be acquired as it gets integrated to other jets.

 

[BON PLAN]

An initial batch of 248 Mark1... More will be acquired as it gets integrated to other jets.

I think it will be the case on Rafale.

 

[Chinmoy]

I thought dual mode ramjet was only a supersonic-hypersonic combo.....is such a subsonic-supersonic mode also referred to as dual mode ramjet....?

Ramjet only works in Subsonic and Supersonic flight. In Hypersonic flight, you would need SCRAMJET. A Dual Mode RAMJET is one which works in both subsonic and supersonic speed.

 

[BON PLAN]

Ramjet only works in Subsonic and Supersonic flight. In Hypersonic flight, you would need SCRAMJET. A Dual Mode RAMJET is one which works in both subsonic and supersonic speed.

Ramjet in subsonic ????? I don't think so.

 

[Chinmoy]

Ramjet in subsonic ????? I don't think so.

RAMJET is not subsonic, but it do work in subsonic speed. Infact studies has been done on cheap subsonic RAMJET engines to power drones. Although it looses its efficiency in subsonic speed.
But the speed I meant in DMR is air speed.

 

[Emperor Kalki]

Ramjet only works in Subsonic and Supersonic flight. In Hypersonic flight, you would need SCRAMJET. A Dual Mode RAMJET is one which works in both subsonic and supersonic speed.

Well, it seems the name is used for both these types....just google it and look at the different sources...

ISRO’s Scramjet Engine Technology Demonstrator Successfully Flight Tested - ISRO

Today, satellites are launched into orbit by multi-staged satellite launch vehicles that can be used only once (expendable). These launch vehicles carry oxidiser along with the fuel for combustion to produce thrust. Launch vehicles designed for one time use are expensive and their efficiency is...

www.isro.gov.in

A dual mode ramjet (DMRJ) is a type of jet engine where a ramjet transforms into scramjet over Mach 4-8 range, which means it can efficiently operate both in subsonic and supersonic combustor modes.

Also the same is said for SR 72's tri-jet engine

See what they are calling the mode for M 3.5-6+....

Dual-combustion ramjet tested

www.flightglobal.com

In most of these the phrase "subsonic-supersonic combustion" is used which means the ramjet-scramjet combination (as ramjet operates with subsonic combustion resulting in supersonic propulsion and scramjet operates with supersonic combustion with hypersonic propulsion).
Maybe that may have caused some to think its used for subsonic-supersonic speed range.
But, the name is also seen used for such applications too.
I am quite confused myself....

 

[Emperor Kalki]

RAMJET is not subsonic, but it do work in subsonic speed. Infact studies has been done on cheap subsonic RAMJET engines to power drones. Although it looses its efficiency in subsonic speed.
But the speed I meant in DMR is air speed.

Didn't see this one when i replied....
By airspeed do you mean subsonic combustion in ramjet....?