Aryan Invasion Hypothesis

[Varahamihira]

I still don't get it why people are buying this nonsense.

Sun rays do have a big role to play in a persons' skin color.
Test yourself.If you are fair skinned then stay in a shade or at home for a couple of years and you can see skin color become light in color.

That's why you see Europeans are white in color.The west Asians,North Indians are white coz for thousands of years they probably were passing through the cold era.

Sri Rama and Sri Krishna were black in color.They weren't blue or white.

Regarding migrations,we went to Australia,Newzealand and even to North America.There are some customs and games that are similar like Pacchisi dice game which was similar to Mayans.Dingo of Australia was traced back to India.And I read somewhere in one of Native American Tribes they take Saath Phere during their wedding ceremony.Maori's of Newzealand have a game called Ruru which is strikingly similar to Kaccha Kayala Aata of Telugu states.

Outsiders didn't came here instead we went far off lands.
We have to go through Puranas and Itihasas again with a new look rather than trashing then just coz they've been written in a fantasy way.Remove the fantasy and you might get the real picture.

 

[pmaitra]

AIT/AMT is a bigger piece of lie than this new (so called politicized) theory. And look at the scientific proof you give- look at people's faces in India. I laugh when you talk about science after making such comments. It becomes super ridiculous when people talk about politics regarding to the current genetic evidence while ignoring the lie thrust down our throat by white supremacists. AIT was part of much bigger political goal and when it came under attack recently people started hyphenating AIT/AMT to sound a bit more credible because migrations are difficult to prove/disprove. AIT/AMT were propounded to humiliate Indian civilization and give all credit to Aryans, i.e. white supremacists and it was lapped up by leftists to further their politics. Now, when it is debunked scientifically- they are crying political meddling!!

AIT/AMT means mixing of races happened some 4-5k years ago. It is disproved based on genetic and archaeological studies. The biggest defender of AIT/AMT i.e. Prof. Romila Thapar has hard time understanding these studies because she and many of her ilk are untrained in reading modern scientific studies. I think you can do better than that and read some of the new evidences buried in this thread. I remember it, because I posted an article from Nature which debunked such massive scale inter-mixing around 4-5k years ago.

The devil is in the detail.

How do you define the term Aryan?

Yes, AIT/AMT was a political goal by white supremacists to humiliate Indians because they wanted to portray Aryan as White European. This is the only thing you said that I agree with.

We have discussed this many times over. Aryans are not White Europeans. They are from much closer home, but they are not from within India of antiquity, and certainly not from India of today.

You say AIT/AMT has been debunked scientifically? When? I have heard people repeat this myth again and again, but I have not seen the scientific debunking itself.

What studies does Romila Thapar has a hard time understanding? Who is the author? What is the research paper? Unless you specify it, I have no clue what you are talking about.

I have thoroughly critiqued at least two research papers that allegedly proved "something." Close examination of the research paper showed something quite different.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

The devil is in the detail.

How do you define the term Aryan?

Yes, AIT/AMT was a political goal by white supremacists to humiliate Indians because they wanted to portray Aryan as White European. This is the only thing you said that I agree with.

We have discussed this many times over. Aryans are not White Europeans. They are from much closer home, but they are not from within India of antiquity, and certainly not from India of today.

You say AIT/AMT has been debunked scientifically? When? I have heard people repeat this myth again and again, but I have not seen the scientific debunking itself.

What studies does Romila Thapar has a hard time understanding? Who is the author? What is the research paper? Unless you specify it, I have no clue what you are talking about.

I have thoroughly critiqued at least two research papers that allegedly proved "something." Close examination of the research paper showed something quite different.

Read the post again: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/aryan-invasion-theory.1403/page-26#post-670508

And this is how you debunked me: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/aryan-invasion-theory.1403/page-26#post-670559

Good paper, but focuses on Y-haplogroup R1a1*. It does claim in the abstract that this haplogroup can be found all over Central Asia. Secondly, if you see figure 1, you will see, both Tibet and WB, Jharkhand, Orissa, etc., have more or less the same frequency. However, the people from Tibet look significantly different from those in those states. Surely, Y-haplogroup R1a1* is not the end of the story. The claim that all Indians are homegrown has a major loophole.

Really. Now we need to do genetic studies by looking at faces of people. This is the level of debate you engage in and that is why I stopped debating on this particular topic because of low quality of arguments.

http://jsarf.free.fr/palanthsci/jhg20082a.pdf

Now, read the conclusion of the paper published in Nature:

The observation of R1a* in high frequency for the first time in the
literature, as well as analyses using different phylogenetic methods,
resolved the controversy of the origin of R1a1*, supporting its origin
in the Indian subcontinent. Simultaneously, the presence of R1a1* in
very high frequency in Brahmins, irrespective of linguistic and geo-
graphic affiliations, suggested it as the founder haplogroup for the
population. The co-presence of this haplogroup in many of the tribal
populations of India, its existence in high frequency in Saharia
(present study) and Chenchu tribes, the high frequency of R1a* in
Kashmiri Pandits (KPs—Brahmins) as well as Saharia (tribe) and
associated phylogenetic ages supported the autochthonous origin and
tribal links of Indian Brahmins, confronting the concepts of recent
Central Asian introduction and rank-related Eurasian contribution of
the Indian caste system.

Effectively this study strikes at the heart of AMT in current form and summarizes the current scenario.


And here is your beloved Prof. Thapar own admission: http://www.frontline.in/cover-story/linking-the-past-and-the-present/article7599425.ece

You have to know something about archaeology, and archaeology is today becoming increasingly technical and dependent on the use of scientific methods and knowledge. There is more and more science being introduced into archaeological research, so much so that sometimes when reading contemporary archaeological reports I can’t fully understand them because they require training in science.

I would not be surprised that she hardly understands modern methods given her age and training. I hope you get an idea of where she stands with regards to modern advances in genetics and archaeology. Thankfully, she agrees on being outdated.

 

[pmaitra]

Really. Now we need to do genetic studies by looking at faces of people. This is the level of debate you engage in and that is why I stopped debating on this particular topic because of low quality of arguments.

Sure. This is what your "high" quality debate sounds like (please allow me to paraphrase):

"All of these dogs are of the same breed. I will stubbornly refuse to see the difference in appearances, and pretend differences don't exist. I will do this because I don't want to be humiliated by the leftist Europeans."

P.S.: Don't miss the quotes.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Sure. This is what you "high" quality debate sounds like (please allow me to paraphrase):

"All of these dogs are of the same breed. I will stubbornly refuse to see the difference in appearances, and pretend differences don't exist. I will do this because I don't want to be humiliated by the leftist Europeans."

View attachment 6431

View attachment 6432

P.S.: Don't miss the quotes.

I know that is the best you can do since you have no rebuttal to my post above! Carry on with trolling.

 

[spikey360]

The west Asians,North Indians are white coz for thousands of years they probably were passing through the cold era.

This is the most absurd statement so far, North and West Asia were passing through winter for several thousand years, but it remained perfectly sunny only a few hundred miles down south.
If it were so sunny and warm down south, might I ask why the Northerners preferred to stay in the thousand year cold instead of the sunny south? Is this Game of Thrones sort of winter or something?

Regarding migrations,we went to Australia,Newzealand and even to North America.There are some customs and games that are similar like Pacchisi dice game which was similar to Mayans.Dingo of Australia was traced back to India.And I read somewhere in one of Native American Tribes they take Saath Phere during their wedding ceremony.Maori's of Newzealand have a game called Ruru which is strikingly similar to Kaccha Kayala Aata of Telugu states.

Outsiders didn't came here instead we went far off lands.
We have to go through Puranas and Itihasas again with a new look rather than trashing then just coz they've been written in a fantasy way.Remove the fantasy and you might get the real picture.

Who exactly are we? Are Aborigines your cousins? In that case, let me remind you that North Indians look nothing like the Aborigines.

 

[Varahamihira]

This is the most absurd statement so far, North and West Asia were passing through winter for several thousand years, but it remained perfectly sunny only a few hundred miles down south.
If it were so sunny and warm down south, might I ask why the Northerners preferred to stay in the thousand year cold instead of the sunny south? Is this Game of Thrones sort of winter or something?

Read this
http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2009/09/indians-belong-to-india-no-aryan.html

Who exactly are we? Are Aborigines your cousins? In that case, let me remind you that North Indians look nothing like the Aborigines.

What does it has anything to do with the looks of North Indians?
If you are ashamed of ancient Indian connection with natives of AU then that's your problem.This was said by Australian researchers not me.
How a game played by Maori's and people of Telugu states is exactly similar if there wasn't some interaction between them.

 

[pmaitra]

I know that is the best you can do since you have no rebuttal to my post above! Carry on with trolling.

My comment is actually a rhetorical re-hash of what you said. So that settles who started the "trolling" then.

There is nothing better than the fact that genes and appearances are related. Outdated or not, it is a fact. Prove it wrong if you can. Calling a counter-argument "trolling" won't change the facts.

I have already made my point very clear years ago. We do not have any debate anymore. We only have the same repetitions that AIT/AMT has been debunked. Just that statement. Nothing else.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

My comment is actually a rhetorical re-hash of what you said. So that settles who started the "trolling" then.

There is nothing better than the fact that genes and appearances are related. Outdated or not, it is a fact. Prove it wrong if you can. Calling a counter-argument "trolling" won't change the facts.

I have already made my point very clear years ago. We do not have any debate anymore. We only have the same repetitions that AIT/AMT has been debunked. Just that statement. Nothing else.

When you look at faces, it says nothing about time of inter-mixing. AMT/AIT has a 4-5k years deadline associated with it.

All your comments about looking at faces make no sense in that regard. And looking at faces tell you nothing about it. Read the paper I cited again and if you ever reach the conclusion, you would probably think like others on this thread.

 

[Rowdy]

I'll believe the version that makes me feel better about myself.

 

[pmaitra]

When you look at faces, it says nothing about time of inter-mixing. AMT/AIT has a 4-5k years deadline associated with it.

All your comments about looking at faces make no sense in that regard. And looking at faces tell you nothing about it. Read the paper I cited again and if you ever reach the conclusion, you would probably think like others on this thread.

Do you read what others write? Have you read this post? http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/aryan-invasion-theory.1403/page-26#post-638762

Now coming to you paper, again, do you read what others write? How many times do I have to read that paper? My response is already given: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/aryan-invasion-theory.1403/page-26#post-670559

You present some argument. Your argument has been challenged. Instead of addressing that, you keep repeating the same thing again and again.

Answer these direct questions:

• Why do people in India have different appearances?
• Why are there a large percentage of light skinned people in the North West India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, contiguous with Iran?
• Why are there a large percentage of Mongoloid looking people in the North East and Ladakh, contiguous with Tibet?

BTW, that statement in that research paper, "irrespective of linguistic and geo-graphic affiliations," is patently false. Geography matters.

 

[Varahamihira]

Do you read what others write? Have you read this post? http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/aryan-invasion-theory.1403/page-26#post-638762

Now coming to you paper, again, do you read what others write? How many times do I have to read that paper? My response is already given: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/aryan-invasion-theory.1403/page-26#post-670559

You present some argument. Your argument has been challenged. Instead of addressing that, you keep repeating the same thing again and again.

Answer these direct questions:

• Why do people in India have different appearances?
• Why are there a large percentage of light skinned people in the North West India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, contiguous with Iran?
• Why are there a large percentage of Mongoloid looking people in the North East and Ladakh, contiguous with Tibet?

BTW, that statement in that research paper, "irrespective of linguistic and geo-graphic affiliations," is patently false. Geography matters.

Bhai you may find answers to your questions in this blog http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in

Use the search option.There are lots of articles about AIT/AMT in that blog.
You might have read loads of articles but this blog takes into account of ancient literature too.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Do you read what others write? Have you read this post? http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/aryan-invasion-theory.1403/page-26#post-638762

Now coming to you paper, again, do you read what others write? How many times do I have to read that paper? My response is already given: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/aryan-invasion-theory.1403/page-26#post-670559

You present some argument. Your argument has been challenged. Instead of addressing that, you keep repeating the same thing again and again.

Answer these direct questions:

• Why do people in India have different appearances?
• Why are there a large percentage of light skinned people in the North West India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, contiguous with Iran?
• Why are there a large percentage of Mongoloid looking people in the North East and Ladakh, contiguous with Tibet?

BTW, that statement in that research paper, "irrespective of linguistic and geo-graphic affiliations," is patently false. Geography matters.

I quoted your post in my last post above. I read and quoted the pile of inane arguments you made, just to feel good about yourself.

As about @civfanatic's post, you want me to believe wikipedia over an article published in Nature!! His arguments are linguistic based, which have been clearly refuted by genetic and archaeological studies. As about the article in nature, they are not talking about how people look but the presence of a specific gene.

You are asking wrong questions and hence getting wrong answers. I will improve upon your questions:

• Do people in India have different appearances due to racial intermixing 4-5k years ago?
• Does racial intermixing 4-5k years ago has anything to do with a large percentage of light skinned people in the North West India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, contiguous with Iran?
• Does racial intermixing 4-5k years ago has anything to do with a large percentage of Mongoloid looking people in the North East and Ladakh, contiguous with Tibet?

If you cannot answer "YES" to the above, then stop peddling BS on this thread. AIT/AMT has a specific time frame associated with it and if you cannot prove the time of inter-mixing then that theory is dead.

 

[Mad Indian]

Read this
http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2009/09/indians-belong-to-india-no-aryan.html




What does it has anything to do with the looks of North Indians?
If you are ashamed of ancient Indian connection with natives of AU then that's your problem.This was said by Australian researchers not me.
How a game played by Maori's and people of Telugu states is exactly similar if there wasn't some interaction between them.

Infact many genetic studies trace the ASI part of Indians to the australoids/Maoris in the Polynesia and south east Asia too. Will you believe it? Do the Tamils and Vietnamese look similar? This is why I hate morons arguing about phenotypes(looks) rather than genotypes(genetics)

 

[Mad Indian]

I quoted your post in my last post above. I read and quoted the pile of inane arguments you made, just to feel good about yourself.

As about @civfanatic's post, you want me to believe wikipedia over an article published in Nature!! His arguments are linguistic based, which have been clearly refuted by genetic and archaeological studies. As about the article in nature, they are not talking about how people look but the presence of a specific gene.

You are asking wrong questions and hence getting wrong answers. I will improve upon your questions:

• Do people in India have different appearances due to racial intermixing 4-5k years ago?
• Does racial intermixing 4-5k years ago has anything to do with a large percentage of light skinned people in the North West India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, contiguous with Iran?
• Does racial intermixing 4-5k years ago has anything to do with a large percentage of Mongoloid looking people in the North East and Ladakh, contiguous with Tibet?

If you cannot answer "YES" to the above, then stop peddling BS on this thread. AIT/AMT has a specific time frame associated with it and if you cannot prove the time of inter-mixing then that theory is dead.

I am very dark in colour, typical Tamilian. But colour my face white in Photoshop and I will pass off as a normal European . colour it to wheatish and I will pass off as a north Indian/punjabi. now do the same with Africans and their photos and see if they look like whites. Only morons can think that north and south Indians are of different race on colour alone

BTW, @civfanatic is another commie hypocrite living and eating in USA, studying medicine there , BSing about how awesome communism is. Do keep that it mind when you read his crap. I don't know why all commies are self hating retards

 

[Mad Indian]

• Do people in India have different appearances due to racial intermixing 4-5k years ago?

• Does racial intermixing 4-5k years ago has anything to do with a large percentage of light skinned people in the North West India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, contiguous with Iran?

• Does racial intermixing 4-5k years ago has anything to do with a large percentage of Mongoloid looking people in the North East and Ladakh, contiguous with Tibet?

And this one line on time alone will debunk amt /AIT crap. Still many morons believe in it. So sad that average indians are so stupid

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

I am very dark in colour, typical Tamilian. But colour my face white in Photoshop and I will pass off as a normal European . colour it to wheatish and I will pass off as a north Indian/punjabi. now do the same with Africans and their photos and see if they look like whites. Only morons can think that north and south Indians are of different race on colour alone

BTW, @civfanatic is another commie hypocrite living and eating in USA, studying medicine there , BSing about how awesome communism is. Do keep that it mind when you read his crap. I don't know why all commies are self hating retards

Actually Indians look so different that for average white Joe, Paki==Indian==Bangladeshi!

 

[pmaitra]

I quoted your post in my last post above. I read and quoted the pile of inane arguments you made, just to feel good about yourself.

I think it is you who is making inane arguments.

As about @civfanatic's post, you want me to believe wikipedia over an article published in Nature!!

I am not in control of your beliefs and faith.

His arguments are linguistic based, which have been clearly refuted by genetic and archaeological studies.

What genetic studies have refuted his arguments? The "Nature" link you have shared? No. You might think it does, but it doesn't. Don't ask me why. Already explained.

As about the article in nature, they are not talking about how people look but the presence of a specific gene.

And I am asking you about appearances. If they are not talking about how people look, then why are you continuously bringing that article in?

So, understand the question, instead of writing verbose comments that avoid some very to the point questions.

You are asking wrong questions and hence getting wrong answers.

What do you mean by "wrong" questions? You mean questions that you do not have an answer for?

I will improve upon your questions:

Ah, you cannot answer my question, so you want me to ask you your questions, questions that you are comfortable answering.

It's like a student asking the teacher to modify the question paper so that he can pass the test.

Very disingenuous.

Look, if you cannot answer my questions, then say so. If you want to answer your own questions, then continue having a conversation with yourself.

 

[pmaitra]

Bhai you may find answers to your questions in this blog http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in

Use the search option.There are lots of articles about AIT/AMT in that blog.
You might have read loads of articles but this blog takes into account of ancient literature too.

I am open to reading alternative arguments. May I request you to quote the paragraph(s) that answer the three questions I have asked? It will save me some time.

One request: Answer only if you can answer without modifying the questions.

Answer these direct questions:

• Why do people in India have different appearances?
• Why are there a large percentage of light skinned people in the North West India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, contiguous with Iran?
• Why are there a large percentage of Mongoloid looking people in the North East and Ladakh, contiguous with Tibet?

 

[pmaitra]

And this one line on time alone will debunk amt /AIT crap. Still many morons believe in it. So sad that average indians are so stupid

People who believe in AIT/AMT are not morons - but knowing your standard, nothing better can be expected.

As a matter of fact, those that find themselves incapable of offering a cogent argument often resort to such namecalling. You lost it right there.