Arjun vs T90 MBT

[sayareakd]

As per latest reports from IA indians are yet to find a suitable supplier for AC and asking DRDO do it.

It was reported that most of the imported reflek missiles too had problems.

And as it turns out the integration of FCS with new thermal systems has to be done by indians also.

So russians were neither able to develop a thermal sight that can withstand heat nor able to develop suitable AC to keep the temp low so that the thermal sights are working.

SO how can the army buy the tank T-90 while keeping major buy of Arjun mk-1, which had no such issues pending forever?

With tons of money we paid to Russian they still have given us problamatic tank.
It is just T72 upgrade with new name and few added capabilities.

 

[Jagdish58]

With tons of money we paid to Russian they still have given us problamatic tank.
It is just T72 upgrade with new name and few added capabilities.

Same point i stress on MMRCA & Sukhoi FGFA

Do we really require those two?? LCA coming in with Mk2 & Mk3 version they will have all MMRCA has only no second engine if im not wrong

AMCA is more than enough , why FGFA where russians need only our money to fund the project but not reasonable 60:40 partnership in design & development , reason in time to come they cannot bargain more on upgrades

No country will transfer 100% TOT common sense has to prevail among the MOD , Armed force & Middle men should be sent to Saudi or Afghanistan to be Beheaded

Classic eg: Kaveri Engine K-10 with Snecma M-88 core , did that materialize?? even after signing MMRCA

 

[sayareakd]

Same point i stress on MMRCA & Sukhoi FGFA

Do we really require those two?? LCA coming in with Mk2 & Mk3 version they will have all MMRCA has only no second engine if im not wrong

AMCA is more than enough , why FGFA where russians need only our money to fund the project but not reasonable 60:40 partnership in design & development , reason in time to come they cannot bargain more on upgrades

No country will transfer 100% TOT common sense has to prevail among the MOD , Armed force & Middle men should be sent to Saudi or Afghanistan to be Beheaded

Classic eg: Kaveri Engine K-10 with Snecma M-88 core , did that materialize?? even after signing MMRCA

We dont engine tech. We need to spend about 1000 crores on engine if we want ourself to be force in military aviation.

Right now we are almost screwed in all three wings of miltiary. Once China perfected JXX then it will start production like photocopy machine and we dont have any answer for that. Navy is screwed with subs and so is army fron tanks to artillary guns to basic night vision.

If China or Ch-pa attack togther we are screwed and have no other option but to use nukes that too that too some say dont work as we want them to be. MOD is balmed for this mess.

 

[karn]

Guys calm down . The mentioned 600 T90 are from the orignal T90's' batch these are being upgraded to the T90ms/am standard . The latest batch from Avad is of the MS standard from the getgo.

 

[karn]

One of the updates in the MS version vs the our old T90 S version is this . A bustle ammo rack . Contrary to what most believe ammunition fires in the t 72/t80 tanks is because of extra shells stored in the turret . The base of the tank at the absolute center where the Carousel is located in the autoloader T series tanks is the safest place to store ammo .
In the second chechen war the Russians used tanks in pairs each having only 22 shells (in the carousel). When one ran out of ammo it would retreat to reload while the other moved up to fight .
All the current western tanks have ready racks in the bustle and extra ammo in the hull . This includes the M1Abrams It has provisions to hold extra ammo in the hull but this is forbidden for fear of ammunition fires but it holds only 34 shells because of this compromise .
If the Arjun has an abrams style ammo storage . Where all the ammo is stored in the turret bustle .. Well and good , But remember... this area is very easy to hit . If it holds extra ammo in the hull in this case it is as vulnerable as the t 90 .

 

[ersakthivel]

One of the updates in the MS version vs the our old T90 S version is this . A bustle ammo rack . Contrary to what most believe ammunition fires in the t 72/t80 tanks is because of extra shells stored in the turret . The base of the tank at the absolute center where the Carousel is located in the autoloader T series tanks is the safest place to store ammo .
In the second chechen war the Russians used tanks in pairs each having only 22 shells (in the carousel). When one ran out of ammo it would retreat to reload while the other moved up to fight .
All the current western tanks have ready racks in the bustle and extra ammo in the hull . This includes the M1Abrams It has provisions to hold extra ammo in the hull but this is forbidden for fear of ammunition fires but it holds only 34 shells because of this compromise .
If the Arjun has an abrams style ammo storage . Where all the ammo is stored in the turret bustle .. Well and good , But remember... this area is very easy to hit . If it holds extra ammo in the hull in this case it is as vulnerable as the t 90 .

In the battle with chechnya one T-90 can reload while other continues shooting. But not possible in indo-pak war .

it is not without reason that extra shells are spread over T-90 floor.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

T-90/72/80 ammunition are all over the floor anyways, That too exposed ..

 

[karn]

And with the update , extra shells will no longer be stored "all over the floor" . In any case still safer than the Arjun that stores it right next to the driver .
Do any of you have info on new sabot ammo for the arjun .
Speculation >... With the new thermobaric rounds that have been developed do you think that the army is starting to move away from hesh rounds and will we possibly see a smoothbore for the arjun 3 ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its not the way you think it is ..

T- series Tanks have Auto-loader and its located at the floor of the tank exactly below the Gunner and commander, The ammo is distributed 360 degree all over the floor ..

T-90/72 autoloader which is situated over the floor of tank

Any hit from any side will ignite T- series in fireball, Arjun ammo storage is lot safer and the probability of getting hit there is lesser than that of T-tanks..

All the red area is ammo, Any flash there will cause tank to explode

Examples >>


=======================

Unlike T-tanks, Arjun and leopard the ammo is situated cleverly where chances of hit are rare, The turret has isolated ammo container on both tanks hence lot safer ..

And with the update , extra shells will no longer be stored "all over the floor" . In any case still safer than the Arjun that stores it right next to the driver .
Do any of you have info on new sabot ammo for the arjun .
Speculation >... With the new thermobaric rounds that have been developed do you think that the army is starting to move away from hesh rounds and will we possibly see a smoothbore for the arjun 3 ?

 

[ersakthivel]

And with the update , extra shells will no longer be stored "all over the floor" . In any case still safer than the Arjun that stores it right next to the driver .
Do any of you have info on new sabot ammo for the arjun .
Speculation >... With the new thermobaric rounds that have been developed do you think that the army is starting to move away from hesh rounds and will we possibly see a smoothbore for the arjun 3 ?

DO you expect the tank crew in the heat of the battle ,

to stop , open the hatch and get the ammo from external ammo strorage in T-90 MS?

Not possible. Safe ammo storage like Leo and arjun mk-2 accessible from tank crew compartment is the critical need in modern MBTs.

 

[karn]

Its not the way you think it is ..

T- series Tanks have Auto-loader and its located at the floor of the tank exactly below the Gunner and commander, The ammo is distributed 360 degree all over the floor ..

Any hit from any side will ignite T- series in fireball, Arjun ammo storage is lot safer and the probability of getting hit there is lesser than that of T-tanks..

Examples >>


=======================

Unlike T-tanks, Arjun and leopard the ammo is situated cleverly where chances of hit are rare, The turret has isolated ammo container on both tanks hence lot safer ..

Most tank are hit at the front where incidentally the ammo of the arjun is kept , there is nothing "clever" about it .
The red block outs are inaccurate, the ammo does not extend beyond the turret front at the front in the t 72.

 

[karn]

DO you expect the tank crew in the heat of the battle ,

to stop , open the hatch and get the ammo from external ammo strorage in T-90 MS?

Not possible. Safe ammo storage like Leo and arjun mk-2 accessible from tank crew compartment is the critical need in modern MBTs.

Every tank in service moves out of combat to replenish its ready rack. It's hardly a feature exclusive to the MS .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The ammo is kept behind composite Armour at chassis of Leo & MK1/MK2 even Abrams has similar configuration, Designers are not fools ..

========================

It does, More over it does not change the fate of this tank when hit, It happened all over the globe with this tank..

Most tank are hit at the front where incidentally the ammo of the arjun is kept , there is nothing "clever" about it .
The red block outs are inaccurate, the ammo does not extend beyond the turret front at the front in the t 72.

 

[collegeboy16]

regarding ammunition i think the solution can be found in the Black Eagle design. capable of storing 30 125mm rounds and charges, for safety it has blow-off panels, a magazine-style reload for combat persistency plus it relaxes the length limits for APFSDS rounds. only downside that is common with all bustle autoloaders is that they make the turret really big and arent protected by armor from +-30 deg.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

That is not going to happen with Indian T-90, But perhaps Arjun ..

 

[Pulkit]

Apart from being overweight as per the Army Is there any other drawback which makes Arjun in any way less superior to T90?
Why is T90 preferred over Arjun?
And is being overweight can not justified?

 

[brahmastra11]

There is not chance of getting kickbacks handsomely with Arjun.. Hence they choose T90

Hail T90...

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

there is already a thread running for this subject and already discussed about upper hand of arjun

 

[Peter]

Apart from being overweight as per the Army Is there any other drawback which makes Arjun in any way less superior to T90?
Why is T90 preferred over Arjun?
And is being overweight can not justified?

Are you talking of T90 or T90s?

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/defence-strategic-issues/44522-arjun-vs-t90-mbt-6.html
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why you created new thread if there is already one? @mods plz close this thread