Arjun vs T90 MBT

[ersakthivel]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Yes, I keep lying and putting words into your mouth. Keep running away from the fact that Arjun's ammunition is bad.

Darn, you are frustrating when you don't see the truth when it is staring in your face.

See some truths here,
@Somreet Bhattacharya @kushalappa@sayareakd @A chauhan
@TrueSpirit @Patriot @Payeng @rahulrds1 @rahulrds1 @Yusuf
@Decklander@Appolyon@Abhi9
@brahmos @sasi @Rahul Singh@Sridhar @nitesh @Draedevil


@Kunal Biswas @LurkerBaba @ersakthivel @methos @Damian @militarysta @W.G.Ewald @Ray @pmaitra @arnabmit @Lidsky M.D. @Andrei_bt @p2prada @Austin @AUSTERLITZ @Rage @STGN @Dejawolf @Akim

According to the drawing above the base of the vertical standing hatch cover is at a distance of 2500 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)

1.The red line marks the gun sledge end at 2100 mm turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)
It also marks the back rest of gunner's seat.See that in the photo.

2.The yellow line marks the opening of roof top vision block inside crew compartment. And it is close to 500 mm infront of driver's seat back rest.This is the point at which the armor column behind the main sight cutaway stops in the crew compartment.This point lies at a distance of 1600 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)

3.The green line marks the end of the main sight cutaway and it lies 700 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate). SO LOS behind the main sight is 1600 mm-700 mm=900 mm. approx

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

hmm ok, i wonder where hunnicutt got his figures from.

@Somreet Bhattacharya @kushalappa@sayareakd @A chauhan
@TrueSpirit @Patriot @Payeng @rahulrds1 @rahulrds1 @Yusuf
@Decklander@Appolyon@Abhi9
@brahmos @sasi @Rahul Singh@Sridhar @nitesh @Draedevil


@Kunal Biswas @LurkerBaba @ersakthivel @methos @Damian @militarysta @W.G.Ewald @Ray @pmaitra @arnabmit @Lidsky M.D. @Andrei_bt @p2prada @Austin @AUSTERLITZ @Rage @STGN @Dejawolf @Akim

According to the drawing above the base of the vertical standing hatch cover is at a distance of 2500 mm behind the turrret front tip (front face of the covering plate over gun mantle plate)

 

[Dejawolf]

link on NATO triple heavy target:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_targets
10mm plate + 25mm plate + 80mm = 115mm plate @ 60 degrees = 230mm. arjun ammo sure is impressive...

 

[The Last Stand]

link on NATO triple heavy target:

NATO targets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
10mm plate + 25mm plate + 80mm = 115mm plate @ 60 degrees = 230mm. arjun ammo sure is impressive...

So my estimate of just above 200 mm is correct

 

[ersakthivel]

So my estimate of just above 200 mm is correct

from 5 kilo metres read the poster properly before jumping to conclusions.

 

[pmaitra]

@ersakthivel, no need to mention multiple people in several consecutive posts. Do it in one post and it should suffice.

Thanks.

 

[Damian]

Well as far as I know, NATO triple heavy target was created when Soviets were still using heavy tanks and before they inducted their first main battle tank the T-64A... even before they inducted first tank with composite armor, the medium tank T-64. So NATO triple heavy is inadequate to be good test target for ammunition intended to defeat modern armor.

 

[nirranj]

I am curious on one repeated issue highlighted By Ajai Sukla ji in his blog. Does Indian army has any doctrine that defines the ned of equipment for the mechanised forces and their strategic goals??? He has many times wrote that the Russian tank doctrine demands fast movement of tanks across the European plains to achieve rapid thrust into the enemy territory - this demands light tanks - suited for the temperate european climate... But do we have some tank doctrine (which we would have evolved from the lessons learnt in the 62, 65 and 71 wars?? provided we have some of the diverse terrain in the borders...

1) what do we want the tanks to do in the Kuchh, sind and Thar.

2) How do we want the tanks to operate in the Northern plains.

3) what do we want the tanks to do in the sunderbans and the Indo gangetic delta.

4) what do we want the tanks to do in the Eastern jungles, hills and valleys.

5) what do we want the tanks to do in the northern mountain wall and plateaus??

On what basis did we purchase the T90?? and on what basis we will want the Arjun...

 

[The Last Stand]

from 5 kilo metres read the poster properly before jumping to conclusions.

Yes, from five kilometres and this is for NATO triple heavy target sir. Not the ammunition.

 

[CuriousBen]

Recently Mr Chander informed that there were problems in arjun .
I am not sure whether those problems will block anything further.
What were those problems and how long will it take to resolve them?

 

[ersakthivel]

Recently Mr Chander informed that there were problems in arjun .
I am not sure whether those problems will block anything further.
What were those problems and how long will it take to resolve them?

What is the problem?

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

is T-90 is just an up armored T-72 with a better armor and weapon systems ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

Imho, IA should have mounted the sight above, DRDO has a prototype where such modifaction were made ..

As tank is modified for more protection, This should have been done, Anyways ..

 

[sayareakd]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

Some of the people in Armor (IA) have negative mind set, i saw one during last defexpo, he (armor officer) was never on Arjun tank, but he told that we told the govt, give us anything but we dont want arjun, later he asked the tank crew how was the tank. (question is if has not seen the tank, why he give up before even checking it out) that is what is negative mind set of IA and their love for foreign made stuff.

I think that DRDO should allow all the officers and armor crew to take a good look and have drive it , so that they get to feel and understand what it does then the T series tank, which IA has been using it for long time and they cant think beyond it.

 

[bose]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

Some of the people in Armor (IA) have negative mind set, i saw one during last defexpo, he (armor officer) was never on Arjun tank, but he told that we told the govt, give us anything but we dont want arjun, later he asked the tank crew how was the tank. (question is if has not seen the tank, why he give up before even checking it out) that is what is negative mind set of IA and their love for foreign made stuff.

I think that DRDO should allow all the officers and armor crew to take a good look and have drive it , so that they get to feel and understand what it does then the T series tank, which IA has been using it for long time and they cant think beyond it.

Resistance to change is very common for users who have used to one for long period of time... I think Arjun has reached a stage where there is no turning back from it... IA has also started to accept it... We must not delay to further upgrades to Arjun...

 

[Neil]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

Some of the people in Armor (IA) have negative mind set, i saw one during last defexpo, he (armor officer) was never on Arjun tank, but he told that we told the govt, give us anything but we dont want arjun, later he asked the tank crew how was the tank. (question is if has not seen the tank, why he give up before even checking it out) that is what is negative mind set of IA and their love for foreign made stuff.

I think that DRDO should allow all the officers and armor crew to take a good look and have drive it , so that they get to feel and understand what it does then the T series tank, which IA has been using it for long time and they cant think beyond it.

true that sir.

even i had asked a t90 tank commander about arjun... answer was swift..:: i dont want to command a tank that can be seen by an enemy miles away, or i cant use it in certain sectors because its bulky, breaks down easily and cant hit its target properly...

 

[TrueSpirit1]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

true that sir.

even i had asked a t90 tank commander about arjun... answer was swift..:: i dont want to command a tank that can be seen by an enemy miles away, or i cant use it in certain sectors because its bulky, breaks down easily and cant hit its target properly...

Different people...diverse views. One of my friend in EME, Capt. GM Tripathi is currently undergoing a training course on Arjun & believes it to be as good as any other tank.

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

true that sir.

even i had asked a t90 tank commander about arjun... answer was swift..:: i dont want to command a tank that can be seen by an enemy miles away, or i cant use it in certain sectors because its bulky, breaks down easily and cant hit its target properly...

All of this appears not very accurate,

Arjun is just a few CMs(20 &10)wider and higher than T-90.So being seen from miles is a huge exaggeration.

T-90 fails to perform in the most critical indian thar desert theater due to low power from over heating engine, and sights that fail in tracking target at night , along with crew fainting heat inside.None of this is present in Arjun.

It is not bulk which dcides the use of tank in loose soil area. It is the weight in KGs per square inch , where Arjun is better than T-90 and even T-72.

Arjun is also the most accurate firing tank on the move as per army evaluation itself and it has passed ACCURT trials which tests in which a tank has to run for thousands of Kms in a short span of time and all components are testes for their stated life time and checked.

 

[sayareakd]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

All of this appears not very accurate,

Arjun is just a few CMs(20 &10)wider and higher than T-90.So being seen from miles is a huge exaggeration.

T-90 fails to perform in the most critical indian thar desert theater due to low power from over heating engine, and sights that fail in tracking target at night , along with crew fainting heat inside.None of this is present in Arjun.

It is not bulk which dcides the use of tank in loose soil area. It is the weight in KGs per square inch , where Arjun is better than T-90 and even T-72.

It is IaA mindset and peception that foreign product must be better then domestic one, that needs to be changed for that exposure of tank to army officer is must.
Tank crew must fell that they are safe inside arjun then in T series tank. Plus the fact that this is world class tank. Some selfish interest dont want this to happen. For the love of money stories are wrote and planted in media to serve such interests.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

Unfortunate it is, The person whom you talked to never commanded a Arjun, Otherwise his view would be quite opposite than what he discribed ..

If i am wrong, You can ask any day to the men manning the Arjun, Who were used to manning T-72 and T-55 so does T-90 ..

true that sir.

even i had asked a t90 tank commander about arjun... answer was swift..:: i dont want to command a tank that can be seen by an enemy miles away, or i cant use it in certain sectors because its bulky, breaks down easily and cant hit its target properly...