Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

su35

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
238
Likes
163
Country flag
Arjun MBT is present in only 1 game in the world Tanktastic. There too it's good (great) at long range accurate gunnery. Some gameplay footage.
It's a great MMO, but consumes very little data... ZERO payment... Can be played at quite slow Internet speed too... Only 500mb.

My username is bleh, look me up for free advice 😅 I could use some "desi" mates there.











Tag more fellow gamers who might be interested. To mods, I'm not spamming. @Shaitan@hit&run @Illusive @Skyh3ck @A chauhan @Rizvi Khan @scatterStorm @Haldilal @Knowitall @sagar @cannonfodder @Akula
I will try then, I really wish some one make skins for ARMA or men of war. There was a modder earlier but don't his mod work or not
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
3,654
Likes
10,819
Country flag
I will try then, I really wish some one make skins for ARMA or men of war. There was a modder earlier but don't his mod work or not
Then msg me here b4 you start... And use this name here.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
3,654
Likes
10,819
Country flag
Bad idea, I would rather blatantly copy the turret design of M1A2 Abrams and be done with it, maybe add a bustle mounted autoloader and free up the loader as the RC gun operator.
No. See back in this thread, I'd looked into that... But Arjun Mark1/A's biggest problem is its already increasingly massive turret. To stack 2 more layers of ammo in the bustle, roof will have to be raised by 1.5 ft & it will cross 70t.

Type-90's mechanism would pave the path for it to become a 2-crew turret & possibly cut internal volume at crew compartment at bit gunner & loader sides (due to less need for movement).
Also in Arjun's turret autoloader would carry 24 rounds.
5ab5b87e4a599_TYP90TYPE90TYPE90.jpg.6676d0a89ed3bc5bfdefc974b9384711.jpg
 
Last edited:

ArgonPrime

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
943
Likes
1,395
Country flag
No. See back in this thread, I'd looked into that... But Arjun Mark1/A's biggest problem is its already increasingly massive turret.
Where were you trying to go with this again?? Arjun's turret is bigger and wider compared to most contemporary tanks sans Merkava MkIV and the turret of the Abrams is actually more compact compared to the monstrosity that is the Arjun turret?? I mean seriously, if this is the caliber of our so-called IITians, then God help us (and this statement is coming from an ardent anti-theist)!!
To stack 2 more layers of ammo in the bustle, roof will have to be raised by 1.5 ft & it will cross 70t.
First of all, I said, copy the design, that doesn't mean we can not or should not scale it up or down as per our specific needs!!

Second of all, Arjun MkII weighs about 60 mts without the add on heavy ERA tiles and the mine plow, so unless you are under this rather erroneous impression that somehow the Abrams turret is 10 tons heavier than the one on Arjun, then I don't really see any merit in this statement of yours.

Thirdly, we can make the turret taller and still keep the weight almost the same by shaving off its width and length, thereby making it more compact and as a result, less surface to cover with armor and thus reduced weight. Oh and I don't think having a taller turret would be such a bad thing for India since we have to cater for the northern front against the Chicoms and a taller turret would be advantageous in that theater.

And finally, I don't think the increasing weight of AFVs is such big of a problem, at least not to the extent it's made out to be in India. I mean just look at the ongoing trend in AFV design all over the world!! Be it the west or the east, every nation's AFV designs are getting heavier and heavier in their each successive trenches, and this holds true for every nation bar none!! And frankly speaking, there is no way around it, and unless some sort of radical new breakthrough is achieved in material sciences, then this trend will continue in the foreseeable future and I don't see how we can circumvent this when nations that are far more superior couldn't achieve the same.

Type-90's mechanism would pave the path for it to become a 2-crew turret & possibly cut internal volume at crew compartment at bit gunner & loader sides (due to less need for movement).
Also in Arjun's turret autoloader would carry 24 rounds.View attachment 59584
So what?? You can do all the above with the Abrams turret design as well. And when we take overall armor protection into account, the Abrams turret just blows the Type 90 out of the water.
You need to understand one basic thing - Nations design their tanks as per what they believe will serve their needs the best. And that's why the T-34 was the best tank for the challenges faced by the SU same way as the M4 medium was the best suited for US needs!!

Similarly, the Type 90 was made strictly to cater to the Japanese needs. They are an island nation and therefore, being able to transport their vehicles to and from different islands becomes a huge concern for them and it shows in the design of the tank. They do not anticipate nor intend on engaging in pitched land battles but rather their aim is to keep an invader from being able to establish a bridgehead, which makes it their top priority to be able to reinforce possible invasion sites with at the earliest. And therefore, the type 90 has great mobility and firepower but compromises on its armor protection to a certain extent.

We, on the other hand, face completely different challenges and types of adversaries and different terrain along the possible area of operations. So, in my humble opinion, it'd be foolish to blatantly copy the Type 90 design or any design for that matter.

Why I mentioned Abrams is because it's the best overall tank design anywhere in the world, it's great in defense as well as in offense, a truly universal tank by every standard.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
3,654
Likes
10,819
Country flag
Where were you trying to go with this again?? Arjun's turret is bigger and wider compared to most contemporary tanks sans Merkava MkIV and the turret of the Abrams is actually more compact compared to the monstrosity that is the Arjun turret?? I mean seriously, if this is the caliber of our so-called IITians, then God help us (and this statement is coming from an ardent anti-theist)!!

First of all, I said, copy the design, that doesn't mean we can not or should not scale it up or down as per our specific needs!!

Second of all, Arjun MkII weighs about 60 mts without the add on heavy ERA tiles and the mine plow, so unless you are under this rather erroneous impression that somehow the Abrams turret is 10 tons heavier than the one on Arjun, then I don't really see any merit in this statement of yours.

Thirdly, we can make the turret taller and still keep the weight almost the same by shaving off its width and length, thereby making it more compact and as a result, less surface to cover with armor and thus reduced weight. Oh and I don't think having a taller turret would be such a bad thing for India since we have to cater for the northern front against the Chicoms and a taller turret would be advantageous in that theater.

And finally, I don't think the increasing weight of AFVs is such big of a problem, at least not to the extent it's made out to be in India. I mean just look at the ongoing trend in AFV design all over the world!! Be it the west or the east, every nation's AFV designs are getting heavier and heavier in their each successive trenches, and this holds true for every nation bar none!! And frankly speaking, there is no way around it, and unless some sort of radical new breakthrough is achieved in material sciences, then this trend will continue in the foreseeable future and I don't see how we can circumvent this when nations that are far more superior couldn't achieve the same.


So what?? You can do all the above with the Abrams turret design as well. And when we take overall armor protection into account, the Abrams turret just blows the Type 90 out of the water.
You need to understand one basic thing - Nations design their tanks as per what they believe will serve their needs the best. And that's why the T-34 was the best tank for the challenges faced by the SU same way as the M4 medium was the best suited for US needs!!

Similarly, the Type 90 was made strictly to cater to the Japanese needs. They are an island nation and therefore, being able to transport their vehicles to and from different islands becomes a huge concern for them and it shows in the design of the tank. They do not anticipate nor intend on engaging in pitched land battles but rather their aim is to keep an invader from being able to establish a bridgehead, which makes it their top priority to be able to reinforce possible invasion sites with at the earliest. And therefore, the type 90 has great mobility and firepower but compromises on its armor protection to a certain extent.

We, on the other hand, face completely different challenges and types of adversaries and different terrain along the possible area of operations. So, in my humble opinion, it'd be foolish to blatantly copy the Type 90 design or any design for that matter.

Why I mentioned Abrams is because it's the best overall tank design anywhere in the world, it's great in defense as well as in offense, a truly universal tank by every standard.
I don't feel like wasting time on a rant of rigid opinion & blatant assumptions. .

Regarding Arjun's excessive size & weight compared to, say Leopard2, see old posts if you want.
 
Last edited:

ArgonPrime

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
943
Likes
1,395
Country flag
Regarding Arjuns size & weight compared to, say Leopard2, see old posts.
The base turret of Leopard 2 (A4 onwards), without any add ons, is significantly smaller compared to that of Arjun. Its interior is a lot more cramped.
 
Last edited:

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
3,654
Likes
10,819
Country flag
Leo 2's turret is significantly smaller compared to that of Arjun. Its interior is a lot more cramped.
Smaller & lighter. That's where 2-crew arrangement & bustle autoloader comes in.
 
Last edited:

ArgonPrime

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
943
Likes
1,395
Country flag
Smaller & lighter. That's where 2-crew arrangement & bustle autoloader comes in.
But Leo 2 has a 4 man crew!! And who says Abrams turret can not be retrofitted with a bustle mounted autoloader?? And since we are talking about future projects here, why not just do away with manned turret design for good?? Let's go full Armata mode while we're at it and it would be a great option, really.
And we should seriously consider replacing conventional guns that require explosive propellants and look for alternative designs.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
3,654
Likes
10,819
Country flag
But Leo 2 has a 4 man crew!!
But as you said, pretty cramped. Type-90 turret is not so because it has less crew & less movements required than manual loader.

(Now you are just making me repeat. Why not read them properly before replying?)

And who says Abrams turret can not be retrofitted with a bustle mounted autoloader?? And since we are talking about future projects here, why not just do away with manned turret design for good??
I realise you are an Abrams fan, but if the massive turret bustles of it or Challenger-2 were directly copy-pasted on Arjun then whole turret would have to become atleast 50cm taller, adding several more tons... My comment about adding autoloader was made keeping Indian Army's constant demands for weight reduction to atleast below 60t in mind.

Unmanned turret is still untested in field & not really being embraced by everyone, due to certain obvious shortcomings... But that's beside the context here.
 
Last edited:

ArgonPrime

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
943
Likes
1,395
Country flag
I realise you are an Abrams fan,
Bloody right I am, why wouldn't I be?? It's the best MBT anywhere in the world in terms of sheer versatility.

but if the massive turret bustles of it or Challenger-2 were directly mounted on Arjun then whole turret would have to become atleast 50cm taller... adding several more tons.
Don't get me wrong but I can't help but wonder whether you suffer from a mild case of basic comprehension disability or something.

I had clearly mentioned that copy the design but scale it as per our needs, did you somehow miss that part??

And besides, we need taller turrets to fight effectively in hilly terrain anyway.
My comment about autoloader was made keeping Indian Army is constant demands for weight reduction to atleast below 60t in mind.
I know and I think the GoI really needs to stick its feet down and get these unreasonable moronic fucktards in the Army in line.

Unmanned turret is still untested in field & not really being embraced by everyone, due to certain obvious shortcomings... But that's beside the context here.
And what are those shortcomings??
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
3,654
Likes
10,819
Country flag
Don't get me wrong but I can't help but wonder whether you suffer from a mild case of basic comprehension disability or something.

I had clearly mentioned that copy the design but scale it as per our needs, did you somehow miss that part??
Ok, I got what's your issue.

See Abrams & Challenger-2 have bustle rounds stacked in 4 layers, while Arjun bustle rounds stacked in 2 layers... But because Arjun hull rear is raised much higher the turret front is already as huge as theirs, probably more.
IMG_20200919_112410.jpg

Now you can't "scale down" diameter of 120mm rounds unless you're "scaling" them to 105mm. So imagine nearly double height of that^ turret-bustle above & you'll see why it can't be done.
 
Last edited:

bose

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
4,805
Likes
5,251
Country flag
Is there any latest Arjun Mark 1A photo available open source with gun mantle protection ?
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
3,654
Likes
10,819
Country flag
Yeah, I was right, a classic case of comprehension disability coupled with talking out of arse. You don't know one thing you are blathering about.
Erm... How would you double the stacking, but avoid this without distorting space-time? 😅
IMG_20200919_113048.jpg

But in existing height, we can fit 2 stacks of 12 rounds in Arjun's turret... Then a loading system would allow narrowing of the front to Type-90 scale by removing the loader.

Or, consider the T-90 inspired FMBT turret on Arjun, but only with a commander & gunner.
Arjun Mark 2 - Copy.png
 
Last edited:

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
3,654
Likes
10,819
Country flag
the expression 'r/whoosh' fits you like a condom. As I had come to suspect, a classic case of basic comprehension disability, pretty common among the bong population from what I've observed through my interaction with them.
Well, you just made some fantastical wishes & avoided any explanation. Nothing to whoosh here (you're what, a bihar-ka-lala I'll guess from the above displayed of blatant insecurity?)

Here's a comparative photo of Arjun-Abrams turrets. Tell us how it'll work. How do you fit more 120mm rounds there?.. What sort of scaling down do you have in mind?
IMG_20200919_120353.jpg
 
Last edited:

ArgonPrime

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
943
Likes
1,395
Country flag
Well, you just made some fantastical wishes
I made no such things.
& back away from any explanation. Nothing to whoosh here.
Neither did I back away from giving any explanations, you'd have got it if not for your underlying medical condition.

Here's a comparative photo & tell us how it'll work. How do you fit more 120mm rounds there?.. What sort of scaling down do you have in mind? View attachment 59597
And when did I ever claim that we would be able to put the same amount of rounds in the turret as is done in Abrams??!! My point was, you can not quad stack anyway because you want to put an autoloader, so it's a moot point!!
And besides, I did say the turret would have to be made taller (by at least 30 cms to make room for the conveyor belt mechanism and the automatic rammer) but we can get away with it without shooting up the weight too much by making the turret narrower and stubbier!! But I'm sure you will fail to comprehend yet again and blabber about how I'm making fantastical wishes and shying away from giving explanations and what not.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top