Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[IndianHawk]

"Mark 2" was so much a jugaad that they themselves have renamed it Mark1A now. 62.5ton weight could be defended, but 67.5ton is really bit much..

Army itself signed of on increased weight! Read the report again!

 

[Bleh]

Army itself signed of on increased weight! Read the report again!

Me reading the report won't improve Mark1A's chances... If they manage to shave off a few tons, that will.

Army would have signed off anything to get rid of Arjun back then. They haven't placed any orders yet, have they?
Shouldn't leave any room for excuses (that includes fixing the front ERA gap & jugaad side armour block).

 

[IndianHawk]

Me reading the report won't improve Arjun's chances... If they manage to shave off a few tons, that will.

Army would have signed off anything to get rid of Arjun back then. They haven't placed any orders yet, have they?
Shouldn't leave any room for excuses (that includes fixing the front ERA gap & jugaad side armour block).

Your complaints about weight don't make sense because army wanted more knew weight will increase with more and yet went ahead.

About orders I'm sure they will be signed soon enough for mk1a . also we have reports on new hull by reliance so let's weight and watch what happens to mk2.

 

[Bleh]

Your complaints about weight don't make sense because army wanted more knew weight will increase with more and yet went ahead.

Correction; Indian Army's complaints about weight don't make (much) sense. Now they've been whining about 65ton max weight... That's why all the redesigning to reduce Mark2's weight have been going on.

But to be fair to them, they have the right to ask for proper ERA layout & side-armour, which had to increase weight.
As I'd mentioned few pages ahead, right back in '80s DRDO should have based its tank on lighter T-55 platform leaving no room for complaint & secured orders for a 50ton 4-crew tank by now.

Rhino tank from GTA5, Leo2 & T-55 ripoff.

Now they has a strong excuse to place another minor Arjun order & go ahead with the 464 T-90S (not even MS, motherfucking S)!!

 

[IndianHawk]

Correction; Indian Army's complaints about weight don't make (much) sense. Now they've been whining about 65ton max weight... That's why all the redesigning to reduce Mark2's weight have been going on.

But to be fair to them, they have the right to ask for proper ERA layout & side-armour, which had to increase weight.
As I'd mentioned few pages ahead, right back in '80s DRDO should have based its tank on lighter T-55 platform leaving no room for complaint & secured orders for a 50ton 4-crew tank by now.

Rhino tank from GTA5, Leo2 & T-55 ripoff.

Now they has a strong excuse to place another minor Arjun order & go ahead with the 464 T-90S (not even MS, motherfucking S)!!

Btw I have been looking at t72 history. Indian army didn't modernized t72 for a long time as it was waiting for arjun to mature.

Let me read more on this history then I may be able to comment on the issue .

 

[Bleh]

KK Ranges Ahmednagar, Maharashtra
Yes I will try to get more pictures.

Actually this Defexpo provided us for the first time with several images of T-90 & Arjun Mark1A together... More on previous page.

Although as I said before, this Defexpo's focus on Arjun was minimal. Just a static display as always & only one old prototype rumbling across a bridge. Even the water & obstacles were for the T-90s beside it.

In comparison the last to Defexpos were much better!
2016 had much better demonstration show with 3 Arjuns.

...And 2018 demo ended up in a literal photoshoot.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Actually this Defexpo provided us for the first time with several images of T-90 & Arjun Mark1A together... More on previous page.View attachment 43102
Although as I said before, this Defexpo's focus on Arjun was minimal. Just a static display as always & only one old prototype rumbling across a bridge. Even the water & obstacles were for the T-90s beside it.

In comparison the last to Defexpos were much better!
2016 had much better demonstration show with 3 Arjuns.View attachment 43103
...And 2018 demo ended up in a literal photoshoot.
View attachment 43104 View attachment 43105

This could mean that the units are undergoing evaluation and testing.

 

[Bleh]

This could mean that the units are undergoing evaluation and testing.

Those started in December 2018 & were cleared for induction in December 2019.

 

[Lancer]

Wow man, the Arjun, as well as some of the APC's (both the copied Stryker and amphibious vehicle) all look pretty good to me. Why aren't we placing big orders for all these things? Not to mention the domestic arti guns & the LCA Tejas?

For a big force with big requirements, and a lot of archaic hardware, these would probably be a scalable, cost effective upgrade. And even if you don't think they're good enough to field against China, we can certainly overwhelm Pakistan by fielding platforms like this in huge numbers.

I honestly don't understand what India is waiting for.

 

[ezsasa]

Wow man, the Arjun, as well as some of the APC's (both the copied Stryker and amphibious vehicle) all look pretty good to me. Why aren't we placing big orders for all these things? Not to mention the domestic arti guns & the LCA Tejas?

For a big force with big requirements, and a lot of archaic hardware, these would probably be a scalable, cost effective upgrade. And even if you don't think they're good enough to field against China, we can certainly overwhelm Pakistan by fielding platforms like this in huge numbers.

I honestly don't understand what India is waiting for.

Paisa re baba, paisa!!!!
.........................

 

[Lancer]

Paisa re baba, paisa!!!!
.........................

Wouldn't it be cheaper than a lot of our import plans though?

 

[Bleh]

Wouldn't it be cheaper than a lot of our import plans though?

Not about how much paisa, but where it is going...........

 

[Kharavela]

Had this been in my hands, I would have forced IA to go for each & every Indigenous weapons and have banned imports wherever there exist an Indian alternative, no matter how inferior the indigenous weapon may be.

Using indigenous weapons & platforms are the only way for self reliance & gradual improvement. US, Russia, France, Germany, China, Israel... all have gone the same path.

One more issue. I would also like to restructure DRDO - from a behemoth white elephant to a sleek & mean agency which will act as facilitator for R&D organisations (private industries, academia or any other entity). The brightest scientists may be retained on Govt payroll in limited numbers for ultra-secret projects of national importance. All other employess (those buggers are completely useless & non-productive) should be fired.

But alas, this can't happen in India.

 

[Bleh]

Had this been in my hands, I would have forced IA to go for each & every Indigenous weapons and have banned imports wherever there exist an Indian alternative, no matter how inferior the indigenous weapon may be.

That tactics can backfire! It's how the INSAS debacles happened. The PSUs are no angels either.

Now that India's tech & industry are reaching maturity, the policy should be "import only on unavailability of indigenous alternatives of comparable quality"
Even for foreign stuff, try to use indigenous or license-built subsystems if possible... We could learn from China how to absorb foreign tech & carry on based on that (look at us trying to ToT P75I submarine instead of building on its experience)!

 

[Kharavela]

That tactics can backfire! It's how the INSAS debacles happened. The PSUs are no angels either.

I am not advocating for PSUs. Please read my post in totality.

Now that India's tech & industry are reaching maturity, the policy should be "import only on unavailability of indigenous alternatives of comparable quality"

Agreed

Even for foreign stuff, try to use indigenous or license-built subsystems if possible... We could learn from China how to absorb foreign tech & carry on based on that (look at us trying to ToT P75I submarine instead of building on its experience)!

That's because MDL was chosen to absorb technology. The same MDL absorbed technology from HDW to build Shishumar class submarines. Result: MDL again needed ToT from DCNS.

Interestingly, South Korea absorbed technology from the same HDW & today they are building their own Chang Bogo class subs.

Had the ToT happened to L&T, Indian Navy wouldn't have to look for any foreign firm to build P75(I) submarines.



Work hard in silence, let your success be your noise.

 

[Bleh]

That's because MDL was chosen to absorb technology. The same MDL absorbed technology from HDW to build Shishumar class submarines. Result: MDL again needed ToT from DCNS.

Interestingly, South Korea absorbed technology from the same HDW & today they are building their own Chang Bogo class subs.

Had the ToT happened to L&T, Indian Navy wouldn't have to look for any foreign firm to build P75(I) submarines

That's biased assessment... If MDL can build scrap new warships inhouse based on older imported ones & more advanced versions after every 3 (Rajput to Delhi to Kolkata to Visakhapatnam), they could've built an Indian "Super Scorpene".
The problem is the overall attitude of the system. Another example ;

I'm more pissed about importing K9 instead of Bhim or Catapult, mounted with Sharang or ATAGS.

 

[Bleh]

Brigadier Karan Singh Rathore of Poona Horse with Arjun Mk1.

Titled Fakr-e-Hind, the Poona Horse the most decorated Armored Regiment of Indian Army with two members Param Vir Chakras in '65 & '71, riding the Centurion that played a pivotal role against Pattons.

Congress rule reduced it to this;
Some of those don't even have ERA!.. In 2018!!!

 

[Akula]

Brigadier Karan Singh Rathore of Poona Horse with Arjun Mk1. View attachment 43135
Titled Fakr-e-Hind, the Poona Horse the most decorated Armored Regiment of Indian Army with two members Param Vir Chakras in '65 & '71, riding the Centurion that played a pivotal role against Pattons.

Congress rule reduced it to this;
Some of those don't even have ERA!.. In 2018!!!

And we are still buying T-90 'S'.

 

[Bleh]

And we are still buying T-90 'S'.

Yeah we're buying Breakdown-90 S/SK... Minimal tech upgrades, ZERO structural upgrades!
Unlike MS those 464 will have no turret bustle, no modified carousel, no bulged roof to increase gun-depression, not even that side-skirts. May our May not get new ERA & APS.

On the other hand;
Congress rule favoured promotion of those with questionable morality, who'd enable & enforce their corrupt ways.

 

[IndianHawk]

I have been reading. It's puzzling. Our tank strength is almost 4000+ now.

Arjun was late so they started modernizing t72 and then they started buying t90 . Both being built in India with lots of indigenous components .

I think plans have changed . They will probably won't touch t90s rather weight till t72 life ends and then replace t72 with Arjun mk2 and weight for next gen tank/ ficv program to replace t90s in future.

I am not sure though