Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[ersakthivel]

no, the whole debate was started by you, and your inane belief that the storage boxes was addon armour.

it is evident that the circle for the crew hole alone starts at a point 3 meters behind the front edge of theHULL,

But your visionary band of brothers are posting such serious positioning the Gunner well inside the hull not even in the crew hole of the Tank all thanks to your wrong 3d models..

please ask them to refer the following picture which clearly places the gunner's seat almost at the middle of the circular crew hole.

So if the gunner occupies just 0.5 meter of the crew hole what occupies the remaining 1.5 meters of the total 2 meter crew hole space?

 

[Dejawolf]

I think you are the one throwing nonsense..

1. Yes Armored storage in bins in turret as well as Chassis compare to Open racks of T-tanks..

yeah well go to defexpo and open them up. see how much armour you'll find inside
my guess is you'll find a lot of air, inside 5mm sheet metal storage bins.

2. All tanks posted here are mainly prototype except a single tank which was operational and was showed in defexpo 2010..

apparently the production mk.1 is still a prototype if you had any say in things...

Its plain obvious that you don't know much and pushing your opinion over others..

i've forgotten more about tanks than you will ever know.

 

[Dejawolf]

please ask them to refer the following picture which clearly places the gunner's seat almost at the middle of the circular crew hole.

obvious troll post.

 

[ersakthivel]

obvious troll post.

if the gunner occupies just 0.5 meter of the crew circular hole and the Tc another 0.6 meters maximum, Is there a third person occupying the remaining 0.9 meters behind the TC? Who is a troll?

 

[Dejawolf]

BEHG

you couldn't dispute this:

and so you started to drag attention away with your inane arguments about turret width instead.
it's obvious for anyone to see how thin the turret sides are.

 

[Dejawolf]

if the gunner occupies just 0.5 meter of the crew circular hole and the Tc another 0.6 meters maximum, Is there a third person occupying the remaining 0.9 meters behind the TC? Who is a troll?

that picture from the front is showing the gunner to the far left in the image.
and how exactly isn't the gunner "near the center" in the side image? you can clearly compare with the turret floor, and see
how close to the center the gunner is.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

By your post, you sound full of air ..

yeah well go to defexpo and open them up. see how much armour you'll find inside :P
my guess is you'll find a lot of air, inside 5mm sheet metal storage bins.apparently the production mk.1 is still a prototype if you had any say in things...

i've forgotten more about tanks than you will ever know.

 

[Dejawolf]

By your post, you sound full of air ..

well, i'm willing to bet on it. 500$ says there will be no composite armour whatsoever inside of the stowage bins.
are you willing to bet against it?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Turn around ?

First 3.2m width then ammo storage and now storage bins, Again there are many which one you talking ??

well, i'm willing to bet on it. 500$ says there will be no composite armour whatsoever inside of the stowage bins.
are you willing to bet against it?

 

[Dejawolf]

Turn around ?

First 3.2m width then ammo storage and now storage bins, Again there are many which one you talking ??

you didn't say anything when Ershaktivel did it for the last 200 pages or so.
oh and i'll also put 500$ on the side turret armour being less than 100mm. will you bet against it?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Counter points....

I asked >> " storage bins, Again there are many which one you talking ?? "

you didn't say anything when Ershaktivel did it for the last 200 pages or so.
oh and i'll also put 500$ on the side turret armour being less than 100mm. will you bet against it?

 

[sayareakd]

I think you are the one throwing nonsense..

1. Yes Armored storage in bins in turret as well as Chassis compare to Open racks of T-tanks..


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2. All tanks posted here are mainly prototype except a single tank which was operational and was showed in defexpo 2010..

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3. Deal with it, Not my statement but also supported by other two members who were on Arjun MK1.

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4. Possible, Nothing can be dis - credited now, we need better pictures of this in defexpo 2014..

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Its plain obvious that you don't know much and pushing your opinion over others..

tank mention P18 means production version 18.

 

[ersakthivel]

you couldn't dispute this:

and so you started to drag attention away with your inane arguments about turret width instead.
it's obvious for anyone to see how thin the turret sides are.

it is another fast one you want to pull off without any detailed rebuttals of my points. You are showing an open part in Turret that is outside the crew compartment and comparing it to the thickness besides the ammo in turret bustle which looks far more thick even in the photo.

 

[ersakthivel]

yeah well go to defexpo and open them up. see how much armour you'll find inside
my guess is you'll find a lot of air, inside 5mm sheet metal storage bins.



apparently the production mk.1 is still a prototype if you had any say in things...



i've forgotten more about tanks than you will ever know.

We all presently find that the lot of air is filled tight inside your skull where a brain is supposed to exist.

For a person who does not have the courage to mark neither the length or width of each section of the tank on a crooked 3D model this is too much blah blah

 

[ersakthivel]

you didn't say anything when Ershaktivel did it for the last 200 pages or so.
oh and i'll also put 500$ on the side turret armour being less than 100mm. will you bet against it?

@Kunal Biswas @methos @Damian @militarysta @W.G.Ewald @pmaitra @Rage @STGN @Dejawolf

@kushalappa@sayareakd @Rahul Singh

1.The blue line indicates the turret tip.
2. The maroon line indicates the end of the main sight cutaway.(700 mm behind the turret tip)
3.The yellow line indicates the opening for the vision block on the roof top of the turret(1250 mm behind the turret tip).
4. The green line indicates the opening of the same vision block inside the crew compartment(at 1600 mm behind the turret tip).

So 1600mm-700 mm= 900 mm is the LOS behind the main sight

The photo below is a proof of that.

The distance between the back tip of the head rest and and the front edge of the Tc's seat cannot be more than 500 mm as both are clearly visible through the 450 mm wide crew hole.
And the distance between the tc 's head rest back edge and the vision block opening (1000 mm approx )cannot be more than 2 times the distance between the back tip of the head rest and and the front edge of the Tc's seat(500 mm)

5.The pink rectangular block is the gun sledge.

6. The pink dimension line indicates the distance from which the gun sledge ends from the turret tip and the hull tip(ending at 2100 mm behind the turret tip). The photo below is a proof of that which shows the gun sledge and gunner's seat at the same 2100 mm behind turret tip and horizontally in line.

.
7. The maroon rectangle on the pink dimension line indicates the true position of the gunner's seat back(at the same 2100 mm behind the turret tip).photo below is the proof of that.

8.The Tc's seat actual position is marked by two red rectangles.(ending at 2500 mm behind the turret tip). photo below and above is the proof of that.

Since you are too busy to mark the above dimensions I did some of your work to correct many faults in the drawing you posted below.

So rest assured LOS behind main sight comes to about 900 mm approx. NOT 380 mm.

The same details were clearly explained to in my post no-5231 in the following page no-349 in the same thread.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/9558-arjun-main-battle-tank-mbt-349.html

 

[Dejawolf]

it is another fast one you want to pull off without any detailed rebuttals of my points. You are showing an open part in Turret that is outside the crew compartment and comparing it to the thickness besides the ammo in turret bustle which looks far more thick even in the photo.

lol, it's very much part of the turret interior, i haven't seen any conclusive proof of a separating wall, rather the opposite.

this image for example, shows no separating wall.

 

[Dejawolf]

[MENTION=4163] TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL

thats the most idiotic argument you've ever put forth.

everything is wrong

you can easily see that the vision blocks correlate with the ones marked. mostly because there are no other vision blocks to correlate to... and the length from the frontmost vision block to the front of the TC sight is about 1.5 vision block widths.
i marked that spot inside the interior, and it just shows how ludicrous your claim is.

 

[ersakthivel]

thats the most idiotic argument you've ever put forth.

everything is wrong

Even in this photo you can clearly see that the right leg edge of the gunner's bottom seat is not in line with the Tc's right leg edge of the Tc's bottom seat

you can easily see that the vision blocks correlate with the ones marked. mostly because there are no other vision blocks to correlate to... and the length from the frontmost vision block to the front of the TC sight is about 1.5 vision block widths.
i marked that spot inside the interior, and it just shows how ludicrous your claim is.

O.K then , You have your own Arjun with LOS behind main sight of 380 mm, And let me have my own Arjun with LOS of 800 to 900 m approx behind LOS, and stop quoting and answering each other. I have enough confidence in my own dimension marking and the photos are incontrovertible proof for that.

I don't want to argue with a person who shows a simple lack of understanding to acknowledge what is clearly seen in photograph.And it is a fruitless enterprise to post reams of photos and arguments.And a waste of useful time as well.

 

[ersakthivel]

thats the most idiotic argument you've ever put forth.

everything is wrong

The position of the vision blocks have nothing to do with this discussion. Since when I based my arguments on the position of vision blocks?

look at the photo above. The head rest of the commander's seat is right below the vertical standing crew hatch cover.

Look at the line drawing above ,

I determined the position of the head rest of the commander's seat to be 2500 mm behind the turret tip (because it is right below the vertical standing crew hatch cover)and proceeded to mark my dimensions. Why are you childishly harping on Vision blocks again and again?

What relevance do they hold to the discussion at hand?

you can easily see that the vision blocks correlate with the ones marked. mostly because there are no other vision blocks to correlate to... and the length from the frontmost vision block to the front of the TC sight is about 1.5 vision block widths.
i marked that spot inside the interior, and it just shows how ludicrous your claim is.

The image above (other than your childish marking of E.R. Sakthivel's commander's seat )is further proof that the seating arrangement for the commander and gunner as per the draw I have posted below.

Look at the lateral distance between the left edge of the commander's seat and the left edge of the gunner's seat.

Simply , The commander seat's left leg edge is close to 300 mm lateral distance away from the gunner's seat's left leg edge(measured along the length of the turret). And most of the knee space needed for the TC goes over the right hand shoulder of the Gunner and not over the head of the gunner.

That is what I am consistently saying.What is so ludicrous about it?

 

[ersakthivel]

Edit :

In post number-5439 Ihave written that------------- ,"Simply , The commander seat's left leg edge is close to 300 mm lateral distance away from the gunner's seat's left leg edge(measured along the length of the turret)."

Correct wordings are -------------------------"Simply , The commander seat's left leg edge is close to 300 mm lateral distance away from the gunner's seat's left leg edge(measured along the WIDTH of the turret)."