Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[STGN]

Sorry , You are not getting the point.

The maroon rectangle determines the maximum height of the tank for taking ratios with front turret face marked by yellow rectangle.

That's why I have drawn the maroon rectangle at the middle of the tank. It's base is in line with the blue steps in the middle of the turret.

The yellow rectangle measures the front face width of the turret,after the turret slope..

If you project a separate yellow projection lines from the yellow rectangle on to the turret front, it will exactly cover the front turret height after the slope.

there is no foul play on my part in not drawing the yellow projection line. It will interfere with the maroon horizontal projection line and then you will start claiming that I am measuring the lower frontal height of the turret with the intention to cheat.

Since this front turret slope is perpendicular to the face of the camera, no errors here.

Regards.

STGN

 

[ersakthivel]

this post has nothing to do with the above post.

You are expected to present a clear and proper photo based measurement to rebut anything categorical. Any opaque pixel based measurement based on dimension less museum drawings dating back to 1990s , that can not be verified by any one reading it is trying to mislead the forum.

 

[ersakthivel]

STGN

If you just extend a yellow colored projection line from the yellow rectangle over the turret top .It will touch the turret roof at the point you have put the blue dot is what I conveyed to you in the previous post itself.

So no errors from my side again.

or if you still have doubts just draw a line on the turret edge from back to front, IT WILL PASS WELL ABOVE THE FRONT TIP OF THE BEVEL CUT AT THE TIP OF THE TURRET FRONT.

THE GAP BETWEEN THE EXTENDED LINE YOU ARE GOING TO DRAW OVER THE TURRET EDGE AND TIP OF THE THE BEVEL CUT AT THE TURRET FRONT IS THE TURRET FRONT SLOPE.

Instead of doing it and verifying it yourself you are just trying to give misleading drawing based explanation again.

 

[militarysta]

The maroon rectangle measures 135 mm on scale.
The front turret height yellow rectangle measures 34mm on scale.

Measurement in mm may wary depending upon the screen size, But the ratio below is always correct ,

So the ratio of turret height/ tank height is (34/135)=0.25185.

So the height of the turret is =0.2585 x 2320 mm= 584 mm.


So the turret front armor block height is 584 mm.

(...)
So the ratio of turret front width / turret front height=5.33

SO the front width of the turret is 5.33 X 584 mm=3115 mm.

So @Kunal Biswas claim of 3200 mm for the width of the turret at the front and at the line joining the two hatch hole center is also proved correct beyond doubt.
(...)

chassis is 3 more than 3 meters in front of the turret. Lot of perspective distortion creeps in.

Read the explanation in the above post 5336.

That's how simple genuine comparisons that can easily be understood by any one is made.

Oh, our genius, when You try to do something do it proper...

Draw:




Photos:

NO SINGLE VALUE BIGGER THEN 2,85m for Arjun turret front width.

So again all your statsments and estimatous where wrong -couse you made fatal error during counting turret width value
How many times you will try to defend pointless problems?

Using
2 turret width on two diffrent photos
5 diffrent turret hight mesured on two diffrent photos
we have
4 (in fact one double so 5 ) front turret Arjun width - between 2,6 to 2,85m it's some range including perspective error, and other factors.
No single value is bigger then 2,85m, while avarage value is circa 2,7m - so you can stop dreaming about more then 2.85m value.
3m and more for width is fairy tails and wet dream for turret front. No single mesurment proof sucht width. It's impossible and I can wrote this - I-M-P-O-S-I-B-L-E after dozens of mesurments.
This on photo above is simple but done 5 times whit sucht values -2,6-2,85m. No single bigger value.

The other question is turret width on crew hatches hight. But for turret front - no bigger then given values. It's just imposible.

 

[STGN]

If you just extend a yellow colored projection line from the yellow rectangle over the turret top .It will touch the turret roof at the point you have put the blue dot is what I conveyed to you in the previous post itself.

So no errors from my side again.

or if you still have doubts just draw a line on the turret edge from back to front, IT WILL PASS WELL ABOVE THE FRONT TIP OF THE BEVEL CUT AT THE TIP OF THE TURRET FRONT.

THE GAP BETWEEN THE EXTENDED LINE YOU ARE GOING TO DRAW OVER THE TURRET EDGE AND TIP OF THE THE BEVEL CUT AT THE TURRET FRONT IS THE TURRET FRONT SLOPE.

Instead of doing it and verifying it yourself you are just trying to give misleading drawing based explanation again.

STGN

 

[ersakthivel]

STGN

Just look at the place you have written as YELLOW in yellow color font.The slope on the front is compensated by the cutaway at the bottom of the turret near the crew hatch.

 

[ersakthivel]

Oh, our genius, when You try to do something do it proper...

Draw:




Photos:

NO SINGLE VALUE BIGGER THEN 2,85m for Arjun turret front width.

So again all your statsments and estimatous where wrong -couse you made fatal error during counting turret width value
How many times you will try to defend pointless problems?

Using
2 turret width on two diffrent photos
5 diffrent turret hight mesured on two diffrent photos
we have
4 (in fact one double so 5 ) front turret Arjun width - between 2,6 to 2,85m it's some range including perspective error, and other factors.
No single value is bigger then 2,85m, while avarage value is circa 2,7m - so you can stop dreaming about more then 2.85m value.
3m and more for width is fairy tails and wet dream for turret front. No single mesurment proof sucht width. It's impossible and I can wrote this - I-M-P-O-S-I-B-L-E after dozens of mesurments.
This on photo above is simple but done 5 times whit sucht values -2,6-2,85m. No single bigger value.

The other question is turret width on crew hatches hight. But for turret front - no bigger then given values. It's just imposible.

The 450 mm you marked is the height of the turret excluding the bevel cut away portion .

just take your turret height measurement at a point near the main sight.

You will get only 580 mm approx.

If you want to check just extend projection lines from the yellow rectangle on to the turret. The top line will touch the top of the main sight and the bottom line will touch the bottom of the turret front.

And that is what I marked by the yellow rectangle.The height of the turret face including the cut away portion due to the bevel cut.

So you are only proving my measurement.
Just take a good look at the yellow rectangle in the photo below.

It is measures the turret face height including the portion taken away by bevel cut, same as in the photo above.

So in an effort to prove me wrong, you are only giving additional proof to my measurement.

As per your measurement , height of the turret at the side edge is 450 mm. And I have got no issues with that.

But if you move away from the side edge on the turret front and measure the real turret height at the middle of the turret you will get only the same answer of close to 584 mm approx.

At least I appreciate your honesty in not trying to fudge the findings of the measurement you made. But your mistake is in interpreting the measurement in a proper way.

And the method you used here is the proper way of meausrement.

But the other posters @Dejawolf , @STGN are intentionally using th wrong measurement techniques

 

[ersakthivel]

STGN

The height of the turret can be roughly known by the height of the man sitting in the hull front before the turret.

 

[ersakthivel]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/HeadAnthropometry.JPG

So according to the chart above human head measures 22 mm from chin to head top for 50 percent of males.

The driver's head is visible in the photo below.

 

[STGN]

Just look at the place you have written as YELLOW in yellow color font.The slope on the front is compensated by the cutaway at the bottom of the turret near the crew hatch.

What? No it dosen't compensate that is an outrageous claim that makes NO sence at all. The cutout at the rear does not alter the distance at the front.
STGN

 

[ersakthivel]

What? No it dosen't compensate that is an outrageous claim that makes NO sence at all. The cutout at the rear does not alter the distance at the front.
STGN

The ratio of turret front height /the face height of the driver with tankers helmet is close to 2.2

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/HeadAnthropometry.JPG

The face of the driver measures 233 mm for 50 percent of men in height according to the wiki link above .

Add 10 mm for the tankers helmet thickness.And the driver's head with helmet measures about 243 mm in height.

Add 5 percent for the perspective reduction because the driver sits in a plane well in front of the turret front plate. So his face will appear a bit smaller if he is on the turret front plate. That gives you 255 mm.

So 255 mm x 2.2 = 561 mm close to my measurement of 584 from my following estimate. SO nothing outrageous about it.



http://www.armyrecognition.com/indi...ons_information_description_intelligence.html

The height of Arjun as per this army recognition website drawing is 2.32 meter.

The maroon rectangle measures 135 mm on scale.
The front turret height yellow rectangle measures 34mm on scale.

Measurement in mm may wary depending upon the screen size, But the ratio below is always correct ,

So the ratio of turret height/ tank height is (34/135)=0.25185.

So the height of the turret is =0.2585 x 2320 mm= 584 mm.


So the turret front armor block height is 584 mm.






In the following photo the same 584 mm represented by the yellow (turret front width)measures 18 mm on scale.

And the turret front width (maroon rectangle)measures 96 mm on scale.

So the ratio of turret front width / turret front height=5.33

SO the front width of the turret is 5.33 X 584 mm=3115 mm.

 

[STGN]

random numbers bla bla...

What are you taking about? that was not what I was replying too. Stop changing the argument when you can't defend your outrageous claims.

besides I have just showed how your estimation can't be true a few posts ago the picture is distortet and at an angle so the turret front height to width relation is not 1:5.33 try to measure a few other front pictures of the tank.

 

[militarysta]

The ratio of turret front height /the face height of the driver with tankers helmet is close to 2.2


The face of the driver measures 233 mm for 50 percent of men in height according to the wiki link above .

Add 10 mm for the tankers helmet thickness.And the driver's head with helmet measures about 243 mm in height.

Add 5 percent for the perspective reduction because the driver sits in a plane well in front of the turret front plate. So his face will appear a bit smaller if he is on the turret front plate. That gives you 255 mm.

So 255 mm x 2.2 = 561 mm close to my measurement of 584 from my following estimate. SO nothing outrageous about it.

Again - pointels and full of wishfull thinking "estimatous" not mesurment. You got unknow value "x" then you plus to this unknow value 10mm and 5% and other to achive result what you want to achive. It's not mesurment but bullshit. Sorry.

Arjun Mk-I main battle tank technical data sheet specifications information description intelligence---Army Recognition---Army Recognition

The height of Arjun as per this army recognition website drawing is 2.32 meter.

Greate but check from what point is mesure this hight You don't have point between is mesure this "hight". What more - draw on armyreco. is taken from Kampfpanzer heute und morgen.
More or less you have vaue 2.32 but you don't known what is mesure - what kind of hight is mesure by this value. It's impotant cause you have dozens hights to mesure. You just assume that is value is as you try to describe. But it's not.

The maroon rectangle measures 135 mm on scale.
The front turret height yellow rectangle measures 34mm on scale.

Measurement in mm may wary depending upon the screen size, But the ratio below is always correct ,

So the ratio of turret height/ tank height is (34/135)=0.25185.

So the height of the turret is =0.2585 x 2320 mm= 584 mm.


So the turret front armor block height is 584 mm.

Couse armour fornt have some slighty angeled upper corners is fluent not constans value. Pic value is close the 578mm +

In the following photo the same 584 mm represented by the yellow (turret front width)measures 18 mm on scale.

And the turret front width (maroon rectangle)measures 96 mm on scale.

So the ratio of turret front width / turret front height=5.33

SO the front width of the turret is 5.33 X 584 mm=3115 mm.

And agian we have wishfull thiking. If you have hight of some turret par you can count whole width using his value. And what? Again -You do it wrong, without any respect to other users. More or less you are producing many posts but most of them are rubbish. You can do this simple, and more accurate and using KNOWN VALUES.

Result is this:

see? Magic - again no ore then 2.84m.
Simpler, more accurate and without those stupid unknow values (face width, Arjun hight taken from unkown point, etc) used in completly nonsense way.
2.84m face whit this.

 

[ersakthivel]

Again - pointels and full of wishfull thinking "estimatous" not mesurment. You got unknow value "x" then you plus to this unknow value 10mm and 5% and other to achive result what you want to achive. It's not mesurment but bullshit. Sorry.



Greate but check from what point is mesure this hight You don't have point between is mesure this "hight". What more - draw on armyreco. is taken from Kampfpanzer heute und morgen.
More or less you have vaue 2.32 but you don't known what is mesure - what kind of hight is mesure by this value. It's impotant cause you have dozens hights to mesure. You just assume that is value is as you try to describe. But it's not.



Couse armour fornt have some slighty angeled upper corners is fluent not constans value. Pic value is close the 578mm +





And agian we have wishfull thiking. If you have hight of some turret par you can count whole width using his value. And what? Again -You do it wrong, without any respect to other users. More or less you are producing many posts but most of them are rubbish. You can do this simple, and more accurate and using KNOWN VALUES.

Result is this:

see? Magic - again no ore then 2.84m.
Simpler, more accurate and without those stupid unknow values (face width, Arjun hight taken from unkown point, etc) used in completly nonsense way.
2.84m face whit this.

You put the 584 mm in a place where you want to arrive at a turret width you fancy. That's all.

You are wrong as well

 

[The Last Stand]

You put the 584 mm in a place where you want to arrive at a turret width you fancy. That's all.

You are wrong as well

Would you mind explaining, how?

Your posts have become near-incomprehensible and you keep ridiculing his posts without evidence. Make a perspective pixel-based measurement using proven values like he does, and edit the image and post said image here.

 

[sayareakd]

if you guys can have great career as lawyer....................... i must say that.................

 

[cloud]

@militarysta, @STGN, @ersakthivel, never followed this thread as too much discussion over just one point. But I think that the height in your pic where it is 578 mm(for Militarysta), it should be approx 630mm. This I get from 2 below drawings(ignore the techie terms as I'm not into much).

First one -

from here we get the height of turret where the man stand as approx 75 CM.

2nd one - from this we can deduce that the wrt the height of 75 CM the height at front is approx 627MM where you are mentioning 573mm.

I have also cut the part of image and put it next to standing Man in turret and it almost equals to the height of standing man realistically.

 

[ersakthivel]

Would you mind explaining, how?

Your posts have become near-incomprehensible and you keep ridiculing his posts without evidence. Make a perspective pixel-based measurement using proven values like he does, and edit the image and post said image here.

According to the line drawing the height of the crew hatch cover is 50 mm exactly.

And in the following photo the ratio of the width of the crew hatch cover/ height of the crew hatch cover is 1.2.

So width of the crew hatch cover is 1.2 X 50= 60 mm .

If the width of the crew hatch cover is close to 60 mm.Then if you apply 60 mm in place of the 55 mm in the picture below , You will surely get minimum 3200 mm as turret width at the axis joining the two crew hatch hole centers.

because even for a crew hatch width of 550 mm we get 3100 as the width at the turret center.

Already Kunal once posted that the width of the crew hatch cover standing vertical in this picture above is about 53 to 57 cms.

So there is no way for the turret width to be lower than the 3200 mm mark at the center of the turret.

So now there is no way any one can dispute this,

SO the reason we wanted to know the turret width at the center is to prove the seating arrangement for the gunner and the TC as shown in the picture above.

So that is pretty much proved once for all. I consider it as my final reply in this dimension of turret width at the center of the crew hole .

If you have any doubt this is the enlarged view of the crew hatch.

So images like the one below have no real value in determining the width of the turret at it's center to determine the position of gunner's seat and Tc' seat and the side turret armor.

@methos @Damian @militarysta @pmaitra @STGN @Dejawolf

 

[militarysta]

You put the 584 mm in a place where you want to arrive at a turret width you fancy. That's all.

You are wrong as well

No Im not, the only person whit wrong conclusion based on BS mesurments is you:

2+3+2 = 7 diffrent turret hights result alway the same - 2.84m turret width or slighty less
Masurement are accurate and done whit possible to count part of turret whit as less perspective as it's possible.

You are unable to present any even simmilar thinh as I did. No single of your mesurment is accurate> In 90% ceses you are taking values from unknown points or whit big perspective. Most of your "job" have no sense in reality. Just wishfull thinking.

 

[ersakthivel]

No Im not, the only person whit wrong conclusion based on BS mesurments is you:

2+3+2 = 7 diffrent turret hights result alway the same - 2.84m turret width or slighty less
Masurement are accurate and done whit possible to count part of turret whit as less perspective as it's possible.

You are unable to present any even simmilar thinh as I did. No single of your mesurment is accurate> In 90% ceses you are taking values from unknown points or whit big perspective. Most of your "job" have no sense in reality. Just wishfull thinking.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/HeadAnthropometry.JPG

Just read the measurement of human head height measurement no- 14 from the above link. It says 232 mm for 50 percent of men.

Add 15 mm for the tanker's helmet it will come to 247 mm.

And to make matters much worse for you the driver's head is 2 meters behind the turret front face, because the turret is turned 90 degrees facing sideways.

So it appears much smaller than if the driver head is on the plane of the turret face. So if you add even 5 percent for the perspective enlargement it will come to 257 mm.

SO 257 mmx 2 driver head length space is 510 mm. You have marked it as 450 mm.

So clearly it is not possible also.

Read post number 5358 and clear all your BS from this thread.