Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[p2prada]

For modern rounds, our only chance are Israeli rounds. IMI being blacklisted is a disappointing move.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

As far as i can say, IMI and Russia are main supplier of tank ammo, So from this one can say that CL-2579 and 3BM-42 are tested..

These are not good as US & German but this is what can be said so far..

 

[navkapu]

If the Russian Tank Ammo as said by you is so inferior then i guess the tanks can't be very great? Well don't we all know that they are not really as great. The good thing is that what do our enemy have they are not really there so this is sufficient as of day.

 

[Damian]

If the Russian Tank Ammo as said by you is so inferior then i guess the tanks can't be very great? Well don't we all know that they are not really as great.

This is oversimplification of the whole subject. In some terms NATO tanks are better, in some terms Ukrainian and Russian tanks are better, in some terms NATO/Russian/Ukrainian tanks are equal or comparable.

As I said, You can't discuss such issues if someone expect oversimplified explanations and answers, while reality is more complex... and interesting.

For example I can preffer NATO designs, but this does not mean I do not like some Russian/Ukrainian tanks (my favorite are T-64 series and T-80/84 series), also it does not mean that T-xx series are not dangerous, underestimating them is one of the most stupid things.

Did anyone of You ever read CIA reports about Soviet tanks? Americans definetly never underestimated soviet tanks. Also think why if these tanks are so bad in your eyes, Americans allways do everything to obtain them for tests.

And this works on the other way of course.

There is also another problem. In the era of global access to the internet, people are less and less relying on good and reliable sources that are describing subject properly.

And unfortunetly good literature is ignored by people, why in fact to properly understood subject, there is nececity to read plenty of books about different tank designs, to understand all these small but significant details, that will help to understand the big picture.

 

[navkapu]

Damian there is no over simplification when i say that ..... I know what i said and i mean it Russian equipment does lack in quality i mean what they export vs what they use for their armies...... and soviet tanks concept has always been all about how quickly they can be produced and in numbers same goes for china. I wont say T90 with India is really inferior but its not what Russia has and also i am sure that arjun is much better than the current t90 with India and could easily cook and eat them. cheers...... and MK2 i wont say but if it is what they say they will cook and eat 2 t90 and cook and eat what the Chinese have and what the Pakistan have as well in addition. The trials conducted against the t90 was not with seasoned crew ..... hehe funny we conduct trials without seasoned crew what kind of people would do that. Had it been operated by experienced crewmen ......... You would have read a different story ..... what kind of trials was this experienced vs inexperienced crew and t90 got it ......

 

[Damian]

Damian there is no over simplification when i say that ..... I know what i said and i mean it Russian equipment does lack in quality i mean what they export vs what they use for their armies...... and soviet tanks concept has always been all about how quickly they can be produced and in numbers same goes for china.

No You do not understand.

1) Economic situation between Soviet Union and Russia, as well as political situation makes difference. Soviet Union didn't export their best tanks, there was no reason to do so back then, currently it is opposite, good example is T-90S for India and T-90A for Russian Army... well let's get back even more in history. When India purchased T-90S from Russian Army, Russian Army have no plans to purchase better tank, when Indian Army was purchasing T-90S with superior armor protection due to turret welded from rolled plates, Russian Army planned to purchase inferior T-90 with cast turret.
2) You seems to not understand and not even know history of soviet tank. You are still thinking in WWII categorys, while after WWII there was very strong push in the soviet elites concentrated around tank research and development program to improve quality of tank, and in the end build best tank in the world. And they succeed, through 1960's and 1970's Soviet Union manufactured the best and most powerfull tanks in the world, until FRG fielded Leopard 2 in 1979, USA M1 Abrams in 1980 and UK FV4030 Challenger 1 in 1983. And still NATO gained slight advantage only in second half of 1980's, more precise in 1988 when they fielded new types of armor protection in M1A1HA and Leopard 2A4 of the later production batches, and in 1990 USA fielded improved M829A1 APFSDS ammunition that was more capable to penetrate improved armor protection of neer soviet tanks like T-72B, T-80U and T-80UD.

I wont say T90 with India is really inferior but its not what Russia has and also i am sure that arjun is much better than the current t90 with India and could easily cook and eat them.

Wrong. Indian T-90S is in some terms better than Russian T-90A, for example ERA coverage is better in Indian version due to lack of TShU-1-7 Shtora-1 IR emmiters. Arjun is not better than T-90S, especially in terms of fire power is in fact inferior due to obsolete main gun and ammunition.

 

[navkapu]

Damian there is difference between the climate in India and Russia and the question is did we get what we ordered. Even today there is a struggle .......

 

[Damian]

Damian there is difference between the climate in India and Russia and the question is did we get what we ordered. Even today there is a struggle .......

You mean the issue with air conditioners? This is not really a problem, as far as I know, even vehicle NBC system can be used as a quasi A/C unit.

For example US Army in 1991 and 2003 did not have A/C units in their tanks, but crews just used the vehicle NBC system as such improvised A/C system.

Besides this as far as I know, all issues with electronics were solved long time ago in case of T-90S used by Indian Army.

 

[p2prada]

Damian there is difference between the climate in India and Russia and the question is did we get what we ordered. Even today there is a struggle .......

Yes there was, back in 2004 when French TIs melted due to excessive heat. They were tropicalized by the French before 2006 AFAIK, maybe even earlier.

 

[bose]

Arjun MK1 = 58 tons..

Arjun MK2 = 67 tons, Earlier projected as 62 tons..

FMBT = 55 tons..

Why is the weight for Arjun Mark - II up by 9 Tons ? Is it due to only armour & mine plough ? or due to weight from the new engine ?

67 Tons is of a mammoth proportion.... only US Abhrams can match it in weight...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The additional Weight is due to many reason both external as well as Internal modifications..

There is no new engine but Same engine turbo charged..

 

[sayareakd]

double post

 

[sayareakd]

Well, this only prooves what I said, Kanchan armor was not tested against best APFSDS ammunition, but against ammunition avaiable for India... ~460mm penetration is not something anyone should be proud.

how do you certify this ? If you have specific knowledge about this please say so, if not, you are only speculating it.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

how do you certify this ? If you have specific knowledge about this please say so, if not, you are only speculating it.

I have posted a different specs before according to that it was 460mm penetration, the Specs & pics were not Indian..

So i removed with correct pics..

 

[Damian]

Why is the weight for Arjun Mark - II up by 9 Tons ? Is it due to only armour & mine plough ? or due to weight from the new engine ?

67 Tons is of a mammoth proportion.... only US Abhrams can match it in weight...

It depends if this is in metric tons or short tons.

In metric tons the heaviest M1 Abrams variants are weighting 63,1 tons (without any addon armor).

how do you certify this ? If you have specific knowledge about this please say so, if not, you are only speculating it.

I said why it was not tested against really modern ammunition.

First because Americans do not export their ammunition, second is that India do not have a gun to fire most modern APFSDS ammunition, so even if You obtain ammo from Germany, from what You fire it? This is pure logic.

 

[p2prada]

I have never seen any govt documentation or even brochures showing anything apart from metric ton.

If you see any Indian documentation with the term "tonne" then it is metric ton.

1 Ton(short) is American for 2000 pounds. 1 Tonne is British/French for 2204.62 pounds.

Tonne is the British equivalent of Metric Ton. Hence, even India uses Tonne.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

The additional Weight is due to many reason both external as well as Internal modifications..

There is no new engine but Same engine turbo charged..

I thought they were going to put an Indian 1500hp engine. What happened to it?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I thought they were going to put an Indian 1500hp engine. What happened to it?

1500Hp engine is now for FMBT..

Present Arjun turbo Charged 1400hp giving 1500hp power..

 

[EzioAltaïr]

1500Hp engine is now for FMBT..

Present Arjun turbo Charged 1400hp giving 1500hp power..

The same German engine, or has it been replaced with an Indian version?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Indian Version of 1400hp turbo charged engine, though not 100% sure on this..