Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

[ersakthivel]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

India's defence production problem

While Parrikar will certainly clear long pending acquisition proposals faster, the larger strategic aim of his tenure must be to harmonize India's defence spend with the 'Make in India' programme.

The appointment of Manohar Parikkar as Union Defence Minister could not have come sooner. A 'part time' minister for Defence as Finance Minister Arun Jaitley has sometimes been called in the course of the last six months would have found it difficult to do justice to a portfolio that must establish India as a net provider of security in its immediate region and beyond.

Now someone with Parrikar's unimpeachable integrity is obviously useful to oversee all the muscle that India's military seeks to acquire to match up to it's ever expanding brief. But that brief is not only about meeting the projected requirements of the military in a timely and above board manner but also about engendering a domestic military industrial complex that is worthy of a country with significant strategic goals.

So while Parrikar will certainly clear long pending acquisition proposals faster, the larger strategic aim of his tenure must be to harmonize India's defence spend with the 'Make in India' programme. After all if 'Make in India' has to be more than a jobs program it must focus heavily on the military and aerospace sectors which continue to be at the top of the technological value food chain of what we call 'industry'.

Moreover if 'Make in India' is accompanied with 'export from India', it would sit rather well with India's stated objective of becoming a net security provider in the IOR as well as balancing the 'iron friendship' of our neighbours by exporting weapons to their other neighbours such as Vietnam and Afghanistan for instance.

For that Parrikar will have to show the political will to break down the sharp polarization that takes place in India between 'users' (i.e the military), 'developers' (i.e DRDO), 'producers'(mostly DPSUs) and 'buyers' (MoD bureaucrats).

In the import raj of the UPA's 'ten' factionalism within different wings of the same team became commonplace and this should not be tolerated by Parrikar as he looks to fix the MoD. Yes while the easing of FDI in defence norms is all well and good, Indian military exports will be mostly of those systems to which intellectual property (IP) is owned domestically such as the Akash surface to air missile (SAM), sonars (already being exported), radars and a range of communication equipment.

Indeed, it is important to understand that license producing foreign designs in India will never be as useful as building domestically developed weapons.

To aid that process, Parrikar will also have to get the Indian military to actually commit large orders to indigenously developed weapons, some of which like the Arjun Main Battle Tank(MBT) despite all the bad press, have outclassed foreign designs such as the T-90 in comparative trials.

In fact the best way to leverage 'FDI in defence' would be to attract key sub-system manufacturers to set up shop in India via the promise of both large domestic orders as well as exports for indigenous platforms that use these sub-systems. An example would be getting GE to build low bypass military turbofans in India for an extended HAL Tejas production run which includes export to Africa and Latin America.

But for that the Indian military must be encouraged to see itself as an 'owner' of indigenous programmes rather than as a mere user with a 'set of requirements'. Requirements which it must be said are often completely unrealistic (betraying brochuritis) and acceded to by a DRDO with equally unrealistic deadlines only so that import can be staved off for as long as possible.

The DPSUs don't care whether they license produce foreign designs or DRDO developed ones and MoD bureaucrats one way or the other remain overlords of this delightful landscape. Parrikar has to put a stop to this 'passing the parcel' game and bring accountability to the system by ensuring that collective responsibility is not a mere euphemism.


Source : Can Parrikar fix India's defence production problem? | Swarajya

 

[rohit b3]

Doubt

Does Arjun mk2 have ERA or NERA protection?
Doesn Arjun mk1 have ERA?

 

[ersakthivel]

During the UPA regime while imports were priority , filling up 2275 vacant posts in DRDO was not,

DRDO Needs Revamping to Meet Defence Needs | idrw.org

We can easily discern what kind of motivation the previous regime had from this single report.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun MK2 has NERA protection at Chassis and ERA at Turret ..

Arjun MK1 does not have addon dynamic protection ..

Doubt

Does Arjun mk2 have ERA or NERA protection?
Doesn Arjun mk1 have ERA?

 

[Rushil51]

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/547494107912732674

@SJha1618
1.ArjunvsT90 #1: BTW Arjun vs T-90 comparative trial results are out. CAG has made it public.

2. ArjunvsT90#2: 'As per the
trial report, MBT Arjun performed marginally better than the T-90 tank in
accuracy and consistency of firepower'

3.ArjunvsT90#3:However, T-90 tank performed better
in lethality and missile firing capability

4.ArjunvsT90#4:The Army concluded (April 2010)
that "Arjun had performed creditably and it could be employed both for
offensive and defensive tasks with same efficacy of T-90 tank ArjunvsT90#4

5.ArjunvsT90#5:Barring missile
firing ability, the scores of MBT Arjun and T-90 tank would be 25.77 and
24.50 respectively in firepower.

6.ArjunvsT90#6verall comparative score, T-90 tank
scored 75.01, marginally higher than MBT Arjun which scored 72.46,mainly because of higher score on missile firing ability of T-90 tank. ArjunvsT90#6

7.ArjunvsT90#7:'the higher score of T-90 tank was mainly due to missile firing ability which was not in the design of MBT Arjun Mk-I.'
7.

 

[cobra commando]

 

[arnabmit]

Critical review of Army recovery vehicle next month - The Economic Times

The critical design review of Armoured Repair and Recovery Vehicle, which is presently being developed by a DRDO lab here, is scheduled for next month, signaling the completion of design of the vehicle for the Indian Army.

"We have already completed the preliminary design review and the critical design review will take place next month," P Sivakumar, Director of Combat Vehicle Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE) told PTI.

The vehicle, which is a variant of the Arjun Main Battle Tank, is jointly being designed by CVRDE and Bengaluru-based Bharat Earth Movers Limited (BEML).

CVRDE would develop two prototypes, which would look similar to the main battle tank Arjun but a crane and a winch in the place of a gun, he said.

The Army is expected to order 30 units, if the Chennai-based DRDO lab satisfied its specifications in the first two units.

The vehicle would weigh around 65 tonne and function as a recovery vehicle for the Army in tough terrain as well as in extreme climatic conditions.

Once the design was finalised, the production would commence in two years, he added.

As for Arjun Mk II, he said all the trials by the user Indian Army were complete and the vehicle was awaiting evaluation by the Director General of Quality Assurance (DGQA) and an evaluation for maintenance.

When asked about the anti-tank missile to be fitted on the vehicle, he said it has been decided to go for an Indian anti tank missile instead of an Israeli missile.

Pune-based Armament Research and Development Establishment was developing the Indian missile, he said.

 

[arnabmit]

DRDO

Lab Name: HEMRL*High Energy Materials Research Laboratory
Tender Title: ERA MK - II hull panels (as per drawing enclosed)
Publishing Date: 08-01-2015 15:05:00

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

NEw Improved Kanchan Armour for Arjun Mk2 ?

Kanchan Armour can defeat APFDS and HEAT rounds


Durin trials in 2000 Kanchan armour withstood T72 round fired from Point Blank Range and was able to withstand all HESH and APFSDS rounds including the Israeli APFSDS rounds


no mean achievement i think in 2000

if that happened in 2000 think what imporvement will bring in 2015 ?

Improved Kanchan Armour developed for Arjun MK-2 | idrw.org

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

THE GAMES Indian ARMY Plays to Scuttle Indian products

How the Indian Army lost its Catapult
January 11, 2015 Rakesh Krishnan Simha
By mating a Russian howitzer with a locally built tank chassis, India was on the verge of developing its own long-range artillery. But suddenly and inexplicably the new gun was scuttled.

Arjun tank has been under development for nearly 40 years. Source: AP

India's ambition to become a great power has never been matched by its willingness to spend hard cash on its military. The previous government in particular ran defence preparedness into the ground by keeping the military starved of operational funds, with A.K. Antony probably deserving the title of Pakistan's best defence minister ever.

The critical howitzer shortage facing the Indian Army is a glaring example of the Indian leadership's cavalier approach towards defence. While New Delhi splurges on shameful extravaganzas such as the Commonwealth Games, the Indian Army has not purchased a single artillery gun since the Bofors scandal broke in the late 1980s.


Artillery is a key element of warfare. For the decisive Battle for Berlin in 1945, the Russians threw a total of 41,600 guns and mortars at the Germans. Alex Popov of the 5th Shock Army wrote: "The amount of equipment deployed for the Berlin operation was so huge I simply cannot describe it and I was there." Marshal Georgy Zhukov wrote in his memoirs that it was the rain of three million shells that broke German resolve to hold on to Berlin at all costs. "As prisoners later told us, the great artillery barrage at night was what they had least expected," he wrote.

Similarly, in the 1999 Kargil War it was the Bofors 155mm gun that sent the Pakistanis scurrying from their positions in the high mountains. Because of its long range, accuracy, high rate of fire and mobility, the Indian Army was able to take out Pakistani positions quickly based on real time intelligence inputs.

Despite the critical impact of artillery systems in war, India hasn't replaced the over 200 (of the original 410) Bofors guns that have been lost due to attrition and cannibalisation.

Quick fix

But even as the bureaucrats and politicians fiddled, the army brass resorted to Indian jugaad (innovative fix) in order to keep the artillery forces battle ready. Going by the adage that the army fights with the weapons it has rather – than the weapons it wants – the Indian Army asked the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) to use available assets to develop a self-propelled gun (SPG).

In order to fulfil the interim and immediate requirements of the army, the DRDO's Combat Vehicle Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE) developed an SPG by mating the Russian built M-46 130mm howitzer with the Arjun MK-I tank chassis. This new artillery system, which was on show at Defexpo 2014 is known as the Arjun Catapult MK-II.

The Catapult has side and front armoured walls protecting the gun compartment, providing the crew with armour protection of STANAG level II. Its main weapon, the M-46, was originally a manually loaded, towed 130mm howitzer. Manufactured in Russia in the 1950s, it was one of the longest range artillery systems around, with a range of more than 27 km.

["‹IMG]
Read section:
Defence and Security
But curiously, after 100 of the Arjun Catapults were produced, the army did not ask for further enhancements to the system and today India continues to seek high calibre artillery systems from foreign vendors.

Because of the army's about turn, the DRDO team working on the gun has lost development continuity. Weapons get better with each successive iteration, and in fact the Arjun Catapult MK-II is an improvement on the Catapult MK-I fashioned in the early 1980s by mounting the M46 gun onto the Indian-built Vijayanta tank.

There were other spinoffs from the project. Private defence contractors like Tata, L&T and Bharat Forge were involved in locally upgrading the M46 guns to 155mm, which increased the range from 26 km to 39 km.

These private players were also developing their own 155mm howitzers in collaboration with overseas defence companies, while also collaborating with the DRDO's Armament Research & Development Establishment in Pune to design a 155mm Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System with a 50-km strike range.

All plans were nixed by the cancellation of the Catapult and the new government's decision in November 2014 to purchase 155 mm guns with a range of 40 km under the "Buy & Make Indian" programme. The plan is to acquire 814 guns for the Indian Army – 100 would be acquired off the shelf while the remainder of the 714 guns would be made in India.

So instead of developing a gun with a 50 km range, the army is shooting for an artillery system with a much lower range. It happens only in India.

The real big guns

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that the only people to gain from the DRDO's failure are foreign manufacturers.

["‹IMG]
Russian army to get standardized combat tank platforms

Indeed, it is intriguing that DRDO projects such as the Agni series intermediate range ballistic missiles (which are banned from the international export market) have been extremely successful, while others such as tanks, aircraft, helicopters and short range missiles (all of which are readily available) are rejected by the defence forces for not being up to scratch.

But then how can any weapons platform attain world class standards if it is not accepted by the military, if the designers do not get feedback, if the engineers and scientists are demoralised. The first generation of any weapon will have faults because weapons are tested in extreme environments. To repeatedly fail them at the first sign of trouble points to sabotage.

For, let's be clear about one thing. The Indian Army's primary enemy is the Pakistan Army, not the US Army. We do not need world class weapons to fight a corrupt, slothful and incompetent army that has lost four wars against India. We need affordable and rugged weapons that can be produced in large numbers and easily replaced during wartime.

And think about it. If India can send a successful interplanetary probe to Mars, discover water on the Moon, build nuclear powered submarines and develop supersonic missiles such as the BrahMos, then the rejection of the home made Catapult is clearly suspicious.

Perhaps the dodgiest case is that of the Arjun tank, which has been under development for nearly 40 years. In 2008 the DRDO had to install a black box in the indigenous battle tank following an alleged attempt to "sabotage" its engine. The instrument was installed after the Indian Army termed the winter trial of the Arjun tank a "failure".

According to a DRDO official, "The German company Renk AG supplying the engines for the Arjun tank stumbled upon the tinkering with its engines after a complaint from the Indian Army that the tank's gear box failed during its winter trials. Following this we have installed an instrument similar to the data recorder or black box in aircraft that would record all the information related to the engines."

["‹IMG]
Russian airborne troops to receive new APC

The then minister of state for defence (production) Rao Inderjit Singh also hinted at a conspiracy. "The possibility of sabotage needs to be examined," he said. "The engines fitted in the tanks were German and were performing well for the past 15 years. I wonder what has happened to them overnight."

Nearly every weapon produced by DRDO has been rejected by the defence forces, forcing the government to release funds for imports. Take the Augusta Westland scandal. Initially, former air chief marshal S.P. Tyagi was under investigation for allegedly tweaking the technical requirements of VVIP helicopters. Later it transpired that the specifications were changed prior to Tyagi's tenure on the orders of Brajesh Mishra, the National Security Adviser, who was reporting directly to former Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee.

The scandal shows that it is in the interests of a clique comprising the military brass, politicians and middlemen to scuttle indigenous defence projects. R.S.N. Singh, a former military intelligence officer who later served in the Research & Analysis Wing, writes in Canary Trap about the "Chandigarh Gang" that surfaced as the "mainstay of the international arms lobby" during the decade long UPA rule. "This gang is not necessarily in Chandigarh alone, but nevertheless is centered around it," Singh writes. "It comprises some retired officers, politicians, journalists and prominent newspapers."

How the Indian Army lost its Catapult | Russia & India Report
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Show me one defence developer anywhere in the world who had to INstall BLACK BOX to prevent thier own countries armed forces from tinkering(and thus failing the product in trials ) with thier products

 

[karn]

Whats he trying to say ? The catapult was a British tank carrying a Russian gun what is so "Indian" about it ?

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Whats he trying to say ? The catapult was a British tank carrying a Russian gun what is so "Indian" about it ?

read the article you will come to know about the catapult part

but for this thread focus on latter part about Arjun tank trials / engine-gearbox failure during trials

Read the

 

[sgarg]

Whats he trying to say ? The catapult was a British tank carrying a Russian gun what is so "Indian" about it ?

The issue is not about the origin of technology. Both the tank and the gun were locally made, so the product was not dependent on an overseas supplier.

After this, Bhim SPG was scuttled for flimsy reasons. What is the outcome - army has no self propelled guns. If a real war breaks out, how does that play out for Indian army??

It is far better to have sub-optimal systems than not have any systems at all.

The cost will always be an issue in India. Maybe Generals are rich but the country is poor. The country can only buy what it can afford.

 

[jouni]

Whst is Indian tank doctrine? They operate alone or with APC, AFVs and infantry together?

 

[Shaitan]

Whst is Indian tank doctrine? They operate alone or with APC, AFVs and infantry together?

together

 

[sayareakd]

Whst is Indian tank doctrine? They operate alone or with APC, AFVs and infantry together?

Add helicopters too in the list. Helicopter will keep an eye from air above the strike corp.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Whst is Indian tank doctrine? They operate alone or with APC, AFVs and infantry together?

There is no such thing as tank doctrine in the IA. Tank Doctrine would imply a separate set of instructions/tactics for tanks within a formation, which obviously isn't very smart. The correct mantra is combined arms. But that aside, yes, even in the smallest formations they operate with supporting assets, and almost never alone. The supporting asset part though changes as you go higher up the force structure.

At the tactical level, i.e. squadron & company levels, they are directly supported by infantry, with or without the AFVS, depending on the expected situation(s) and availability.

At the regimental level (tank battalions in other military), AFVs with AT capability become a necessity, and so do air defense assets in the form of AA batteries or MANPADS. There are concrete plans to arm each regiment with their own mini-UAVs for short range ISR capability.

At the quasi-strategic level, i.e. the armored division, There are VSHORADS (QR-SAMS) added to the above force structure. In addition, you can count on integral artillery support. There wil also be engineering units integrated to the force structure for mining, de-mining and other operations.

Scout Helicopters from army aviation will also join up with the division, and so will Air force liaisons and independent artillery formations.

There is no point talking about the strategic level, as at that level, tanks become just one of the many assets at the hands of commanders.

 

[jouni]

together

At first I thought they use massive smoke screen, but it must dust. It is pretty dry there.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

At first I thought they use massive smoke screen, but it must dust. It is pretty dry there.

its a desert bro