AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[SavageKing456]

Isnt F-22 better than F-35?

There is no comparison between these two
F22 has more power than f35 obviously due to engine quantity
Both are made for different purposes

 

[SimplyIndian]

BJP has a nationalist vote bank plus media can us the narrative of defence sector growth under BJP where Congress failed miserably as it has more positive approach than just Hindu-Muslim.
if not AMCA definitely Tejas mk2 would be used by BJP for election!

2023 dec/ early 2024 Ram Mandir is sufficient event for BJP. I dont thing GOI want to force AMCA before time.

 

[SARTHAK]

2023 dec/ early 2024 Ram Mandir is sufficient event for BJP. I dont thing GOI want to force AMCA before time.

although bjp may win , but the way things are going inflation will shoot up and adverse impact will be on elections

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

in NGAD as per reports ir stealth and ew are the areas to be focused upon , dew on jets is still a long shot ,

Dew & hypersonic weapons development in US is in very advance stage. NGAD is set to be operational in 2035 and it seems they will be able to develop dews by then.

hypersonic weapons may be near but dew are not at least not in next 5 years

True that but i believe till the time NGAD becomes operational dews will be available with it.

When DEW pods have been tested & advertised then I'm speculating that airframe integrated DEW is already demonstrated on a 6th gen TD jet secretly. But they may not want to hastily reveal it like the ATF protoypes YF-22/23. There is no need to hurry. May be they are developing & testing an engine more powerful than PWF-135. In next 5 years they can reveal the prototype. Just like it took time from YF-22 to F-22 & X-35 to F-35 similarly it will take 1 more decade easily for NGAD F-XX to surface.

 

[johnj]

The capabilities you mentioned will be there in 5.5 gen fighter jets. Nobody knows what will be the capability of NGAD which is the only 6th gen program right now and is fully secretive.

Except point 2.

 

[johnj]

A

That doesn't make those features of standard for 5.5th gen aircraft.
Take example of AESA radar. It is a 5th gen technology however almost all 4th aircraft field it. These aircraft are generally termed 4.5th gen.

AESA is used in 4 gen first and it is one requirement for 4.5gen. AESA not a 5th gen tech, but a 4th gen, and a must have for 5th gen. USAF don't have 4.5gen pgn, for ex, USN having f18[4th], sh[4.5th] and f35 [5th]. EU skipped 5th gen. Now USAF interested in 4.5[too late]. Stealth is the important feature of 5th gen.

 

[Arpuster]

Except point 2.

Point 2 will also be in 5.5 gen fighters

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

Apart from which generation we gonna lable our AMCA.
I’m more concerned about the engine jv as such it feels like it is on a seesaw.
when Rafale was selected it felt like Safran will help and revive kaveri engine to be used in all our fighters
then, cost escalated and IP issues delayed any progress.
after which a good news was heard where RR top officials confirming JV for the engine with all IP rights with us.
Now, a sudden news emerged as Safran being the winner and we are now developing a 125KN thrust engine with DRDRO & ADA, it felt like by this March the deal will be finalised in DefExpo22.
but the DefExpo22 didn’t happened!

Now Boris came and started a new discussion as RR is still pitching JV thus Safran deal isn’t mature still some if and but!

In the whole process we have already wasted atleast 5 years.
Indian Govt. looks so confused to me…

According to the current senario I believe…
Indian Govt. should make two different entities
1. Safran & Gtre/DRDO,etc
2. RR & HAL/ADA,etc

let the two companies compete against each other, we will be able to get better results and in time (same thing USA do it with GE & PW).

Finally the better engine between the two would be chosen for our AMCA ,TEDBF & Futuristic fighters.(atleast 240+ airframes)
the other engines economical version should be derived and that be used in various Tejas variants & other lesser sophisticated fighters.(atleast 300+ airframes)

We getting best of both the worlds!

Let me know what you guys think?

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Scaled down 6th gen TD with DEW

just kidding

 

[Dark Sorrow]

A

AESA is used in 4 gen first and it is one requirement for 4.5gen. AESA not a 5th gen tech, but a 4th gen, and a must have for 5th gen. USAF don't have 4.5gen pgn, for ex, USN having f18[4th], sh[4.5th] and f35 [5th]. EU skipped 5th gen. Now USAF interested in 4.5[too late]. Stealth is the important feature of 5th gen.

AESA is an standard feature requirement for 5th gen aircraft along with geometric stealth, sensor fusion, etc.. Most of these technologies was dialed down later for 4th gen aircraft once things settled. When 4th gen aircraft were introduced PESA was an standard radar requirement.

As technology matures it finds its way down to older generation aircraft.

USAF is only interested in 4.5gen aircraft due to low operating cost and being able to operate as bomb/missile truck.

Still all the features mentioned in my post previously are expected standard requirement for 6th gen aircraft.

 

[johnj]

Point 2 will also be in 5.5 gen fighters

Till data to my knowledge, no 5 gen maker not interested in adding autonomous killing capability into 5th gen.
Do get confused b/w 3/4 th gen unmanned jet with unmanned 6th gen, it is si/fi tech, and its new, starting from spear, lrasm into future.

 

[johnj]

Apart from which generation we gonna lable our AMCA.
I’m more concerned about the engine jv as such it feels like it is on a seesaw.
when Rafale was selected it felt like Safran will help and revive kaveri engine to be used in all our fighters
then, cost escalated and IP issues delayed any progress.
after which a good news was heard where RR top officials confirming JV for the engine with all IP rights with us.
Now, a sudden news emerged as Safran being the winner and we are now developing a 125KN thrust engine with DRDRO & ADA, it felt like by this March the deal will be finalised in DefExpo22.
but the DefExpo22 didn’t happened!

Now Boris came and started a new discussion as RR is still pitching JV thus Safran deal isn’t mature still some if and but!

In the whole process we have already wasted atleast 5 years.
Indian Govt. looks so confused to me…

According to the current senario I believe…
Indian Govt. should make two different entities
1. Safran & Gtre/DRDO,etc
2. RR & HAL/ADA,etc

let the two companies compete against each other, we will be able to get better results and in time (same thing USA do it with GE & PW).

Finally the better engine between the two would be chosen for our AMCA ,TEDBF & Futuristic fighters.(atleast 240+ airframes)
the other engines economical version should be derived and that be used in various Tejas variants & other lesser sophisticated fighters.(atleast 300+ airframes)

We getting best of both the worlds!

Let me know what you guys think?

I think safran and gtre/drdo working on jet engine tech for more than 5 years and its unrelated to rafale, with little success, now scraped old one and working on amca engine, still in early stages.
RR mainly interested in cargo, ships engines and trying to get a fair share or eliminate ukraine, usa in market. RR making a lot of offers world wide to retake and gain markets.

 

[johnj]

AESA is an standard feature requirement for 5th gen aircraft along with geometric stealth, sensor fusion, etc.. Most of these technologies was dialed down later for 4th gen aircraft once things settled. When 4th gen aircraft were introduced PESA was an standard radar requirement.

As technology matures it finds its way down to older generation aircraft.

USAF is only interested in 4.5gen aircraft due to low operating cost and being able to operate as bomb/missile truck.

Still all the features mentioned in my post previously are expected standard requirement for 6th gen aircraft.

AESA is a standard requirement for 4.5th gen aircraft, and first AESA equipped fighter jet is 4gen, then 4.5/5th gen. USAF don't have a 4.5 gen pgm, USN, EU, Russia developed 4.5 gen, where AESA is a standard requirement, MMRCA also for 4.5gen, where AESA is standard. AESA for 5th is developed from 4th gen AESA, only USAF using 5th gen AESA tech on 4th gen.
USAF want 4.5gen because it is easy to modify, operate, and deploy. USAF use Bombers for bomb/missile truck.
5th gen can carry more externally.

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

I think safran and gtre/drdo working on jet engine tech for more than 5 years and its unrelated to rafale, with little success, now scraped old one and working on amca engine, still in early stages.
RR mainly interested in cargo, ships engines and trying to get a fair share or eliminate ukraine, usa in market. RR making a lot of offers world wide to retake and gain markets.

there was an off-set in rafale deal.(to revive the Kaveri engine)
&
the question remains how to resolve engine issue which already cost us alot in Tejas.
why aren’t they learning from early mistakes?? We are wasting valuable time!!

 

[johnj]

there was an off-set in rafale deal.(to revive the Kaveri engine)
&
the question remains how to resolve engine issue which already cost us alot in Tejas.
why aren’t they learning from early mistakes?? We are wasting valuable time!!

There is no such off-set like to revive the Kaveri engine in 36 rafale deal, and drdo rejected the offer due to huge cost. Drdo and safran working on Kaveri pgm before rafale deal, and also on amca engine. Revive the Kaveri engine is a offer made by safran, drdo rejected it, goi closed kaveri pgm, now drdo working on new pgrm, status unknown to me. Also there is a MOU with Russia for TVC JV, status unknown to me, maybe someone knows in this forum, anyone ?

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

There is no such off-set like to revive the Kaveri engine in 36 rafale deal, and drdo rejected the offer due to huge cost. Drdo and safran working on Kaveri pgm before rafale deal, and also on amca engine. Revive the Kaveri engine is a offer made by safran, drdo rejected it, goi closed kaveri pgm, now drdo working on new pgrm, status unknown to me. Also there is a MOU with Russia for TVC JV, status unknown to me, maybe someone knows in this forum, anyone ?

Please read carefully!(offset)
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ngine-crash/articleshow/70684809.cms?from=mdr

 

[Arpuster]

Till data to my knowledge, no 5 gen maker not interested in adding autonomous killing capability into 5th gen.
Do get confused b/w 3/4 th gen unmanned jet with unmanned 6th gen, it is si/fi tech, and its new, starting from spear, lrasm into future.

US, Tempest partners, SCAF partners, China, Russia all are working on it coz thats the future.

 

[johnj]

Please read carefully!(offset)
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ngine-crash/articleshow/70684809.cms?from=mdr

It just a article, GOI have nothing to do with it, just 50% off-sect, that why no fine/ban/sanctions on safran and again GOI have nothing do with Reliance and Dassault deal, it all started with sarfan offer and most people made it legal, just a offer, also you can read drdo said ''NO'' to the deal, no GOI involvement.

 

[johnj]

US, Tempest partners, SCAF partners, China, Russia all are working on it coz thats the future.

''working on'', USAF build and flown one, Chinese showing models, EU testing, but none of them for current or old gen, but for future, also current and old gen able to control them, Russian status unknown. Also Aus also working on such tech.

 

[Arpuster]

''working on'', USAF build and flown one, Chinese showing models, EU testing, but none of them for current or old gen, but for future, also current and old gen able to control them, Russian status unknown. Also Aus also working on such tech.

Are you calling 5th gen an old tech?? Or you think F-35s wont be able to use them?? Man CATS program is being developed to work with 4 & 4.5 gen fighters first. Similarly US will integrate it with F-35 & other 4.5 gen fighters before NGAD, China with J-20, J-16 etc and Russia with Su-57, Su-35 etc. India, tempest partners & scaf partners will first integrate it with 4.5 gen fighters then with their 5.5 fighters AMCA, Tempest & NGF