AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Joydeepghosh1976]

6th Gen #NGAD Vs 5th Gen #F35 Comparison

6th Gen NGAD Vs 5th Gen F-35 Comparison

F-35 Vs. NGAD Concept Indian Air Force/IAF is happy flying 3rd Gen, 4th Gen, and 4.5++ Gen fighters like Mig-29/29K, Rafale/Ra...

rbt-defense.blogspot.com

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

@Bhartiya Sainik brethen what is the size of IWB of amca. I have heard it will carry rudram 1 internally for that iwb will need to be large enough around 5.5m long. Is that true

That's 50% increase in length & 300-375% increase in weight of 600 Kg comapred to 12-13' long BVR-AAMs weighing 160-220 Kg. Where exactly did u hear that? I don't communicate with DoD people. I'm not journalist. IDK.
It is not impossible but in my low IQ understanding then it will need folding fins, AMCA will become AHCA & its looks will change. No heavy jet has done it so far - F-22, Su-57, J-20. Then how can medium jet do it?
The following pic of Su-30MKI carrying Brahmos AShM, Rudram-1 ARM & Astr AAM is clear evidence why we need AHCA with IWB versions of all types of weapons.

If Rudram is called NG-ARM then we need N2NG-ARM (Next to Next Gen ARM) something like AGM-88G AARGM-ER. On January 12, 2024, Lockheed Martin was awarded a contract to integrate its modified version with all three F-35 variants.

For now, just think -
62' long F-22 can carry only 12' long AIM-120, AMCA fuselage is identical to F-22's.
65' long Su-57's IWB is 14.4' long. The 2 tandem IWBs are not joined otherwise it could have carried Novator & some ARM, AShM, cruise missiles.
Neither of them expanded their IWB for ARM, AShM.
For 58' long AMCA to carry 18' long AGM in IWB, the depth/height of IWB will also increase affecting the arrangement of other components changing the shape of fuselage, wings, a new jet basically.
Considering all the 3D & 2D art available on internet, the expo models, it doesn't seem so.

AMCA is just 4 feet shorter than F-22 & with identical fuselage so i'll take example of F-22.
Although many electrical, mechanical, electronic parts have been made compact, light BUT there are certain things which cannot be miniaturised, modified or bypassed like -
- air intake tunnel
- engines
- internal fuel tanks with good capacity
All other components are surrounding the above components.

Just behind the IWB are various components already shown in diagram above like cooling system, heat exchangers, pumps, reservoirs, additional sensors & electronics, (also some secret stuff causing export ban).
So if the IWB is extended backwards then all those components will have to shift sideways, upwards, downwards causing the rear fuselage to bulge out but there is an aeronautical engineering design parameter called "Whitcomb Area rule" implimented on F-22 & hence most probably on AMCA also.

We can see how the fuselage narrows down towards rear after IWB

If the engine get pushed up causing hump it might look like YF-23

You can separate the engine gap to create longer IWB like in Su-57 but no jet in peace time patrol regularly carries big heavy weapons affecting fuel economy & military budget, except for excercises. Nobody has to be that ready all the time. And like i said earlier SU-57 did not join the tandem IWBs. There are some old diagrams on internet for Su-57 weapons options, size comparison, with folding fins also.

A similar design difference of lateral Vs tandem bays was seen for Mitsubishi F-3 iterations. Now it seems to be merged with Tempest to create GCAP. We have to wait & see about its weapons bays.

If the entire IWB is extended backwards then wing tips will also shift backwards & new structure will look like fictive FB-22

Similarly AMCA will become ALBA (Advanced Light Bomber Aircraft)

 

[Satish Sharma]

I heard from none other than a youtuber who claimed 4 rudram in iwb. It could be modified rudram. Ig..
Btw join defenceforumbharat.com

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

I heard from none other than a youtuber who claimed 4 rudram in iwb. Guess who

Well, i have seen many Youtubers - Defence Matrix, Alpha Defence, Defence Squad, Indian Defence Updates, Indian Defence Analysis, Indian Defence News, Delhi Defence Review, Nitin Gokhale with Bharat Shakti, Shiv Aroor & Vishnu Som with NDTV, Amit updates, Defence Decode, Tarmak Media House, etc.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Well, i have seen many Youtubers - Defence Matrix, Alpha Defence, Defence Squad, Indian Defence Updates, Indian Defence Analysis, Indian Defence News, Delhi Defence Review, Nitin Gokhale with Bharat Shakti, Shiv Aroor & Vishnu Som with NDTV, Amit updates, Defence Decode, Tarmak Media House, etc.

I'm talking about alpha defence

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

I'm talking about alpha defence

Please share that video link.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Please share that video link.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

F-22 with 2x156-165 KN engines carry max 1.37 tons in IWB (2x AIM-9 + 2x AIM-120 + 2x 450kg JDAM).
AMCA with 2x110 KN engines want to carry 2.4 tons in IWB.
Astr MK1 - 154 Kg, 12.5' long, 18cm diameter.
Astr MK3 SFDR - 220 Kg, 12'8" long, 20cm diameter, 60cm wingpan.
Rudram-1 - 600 Kg, 18' long, 32cm diameter, 95-100cm wingspan, 150 Km range.
AM-88G AARGM-ER - 361 Kg, 14' long, 25cm diameter, 110cm wingspan, 300 Km range. I guess it will be shortened further.
IDK how much front+rear clearance exactly is left, say 1 ft.
ADA has said that internal load is 1.5 tons with 98 KN wet thrust. If 110 KN engine is developed for FOC AMCA then in same T/W ratio IWB capacity will be 1.68 tons, divideby 4 = 421 Kg. So Rudram length will also have to reduce by roughly 2/3rd to 12 ft. Aeronautical engineering calculations may not be so simple unitary method, so someone has to ask bluntly upfront to DRDO/HAL/ADA guys.
Alpha Defence said -
> folding wings, ok we are on same page. It has to be like Kh-58 for Su-57

Above each missile occupies width of approx. 51cm.

> AMCA will have bigger/longer IWB than F-35 = agreed, Astr MK3 SFDR will need 14' long IWB like Su-47.
If T/W ratio has to be maintained with 4 Rudrams then Rudram has to be roughly 12' long, 420 Kg, similar to AGM-88E AARGM-ER.

Now for the lateral dimensions, let's consider Astr MK3 SFDR with 20cm dia. & folding wings like shown above in diagram. With 5cm lateral clearance on both sides, missile will occupy 30cm width. For 3 AAMs 90cm width IWB is required.
For 2 Rudrams in each L+R IWB 90/2=45cm width will be available which will suffice for 32cm dia. Rudram with folded fins keeping 6.5cm lateral clearance on both sides, provided Rudram should be 12' long & 420Kg to maintain T/W ratio.

I cannot imagine AMCA or any 5th gen medium jet, not even J-31/35, with fuselage identical to F-22, to have 19-20 feet long IWB carrying 4x(18' long 600Kg) missiles with 2x98-110KN engines,
But ADA quotes external load of 5 tons with 3 hard-points per wing, I giuess only 4 such missiles of total 2.4 tons can be carried externally. Outer most pylon will be for lighter AAM.

I can imagine AMCA or any 5th gen medium jet with to have 16' long IWB with 2x(15' long missile weighing roughly 500 Kg) if either
- engines get pushed up creating hump looking like YF-23
- engines are separated & central IWB is created like in Su-57 or Mitsubishi F-3(24-DMU).

 

[BON PLAN]

Supercrusie is cruising at 1.1Mach (greater than speed of sound) or higher when in flat trajectory. While descending, almost any plane can go fast without afterburner. Nevertheless, my point is that speed above 0.9Mach causes extraordinary air drag which increases exponentially as speed increases. This means speed of 1.3Mach would consume 2 times as much fuel as 0.8Mach for same distance eve without using A/B

The word "supercruise" was not invented my me, and the definition is not mine. Ask Lockeed Martin.

It is fuel less greedy to reach mach 1.3 without after burner that with an after burner, because the specific consumption in dry is far smaller.

In the F35 case, it is only able to go beyond mach 1 thanks to AB, and to maintain it without AB only in slight descent. Why? Because it was not studied as a fighter, but to replace F16 and A10 in the CAS role, and accordingly it is shaped as a sugar piece.