Al-Khalid MBT And Pakistani Armour

[Kunal Biswas]

tanks[/url]

Simple question..

Does Al-Khalid deign is Pakistani ? if so what are the deign difference between a type-96 ?

From tank deign aspect..

 

[sayareakd]

Pakistani satellite launch.

.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
by China
.
.
.

 

[farhan_9909]

Lets see...

JF-17 = Chini
Al Khalid = Chini
Frigate = Chini

All of it is Chini!

as if you guys has developed everything on your own

a slight sum up on arjun

*design(German help)
*tracks(imported from germany)
*rifle bore gun(18th century tech)
*most of them are foreign
*ammo(Russian/Israel)
*thermal imagers (foreign)
*GLATGM LAHAT(ISRAEL)
*fcs/gcs(Israel)
*BMS(Israely modified by drdo)
*engine(German)
*turret(thanks to IMI)
*ERA (RUSSIAN)RIP OFF
*transmission(foreign)


development started in 1973
cost taken by the project is 20 times more than estimated
124 tanks ordered in 2004 while delivered in 2011.(less than 20 arjun manufacturing per year)
while i will not mention the list of problems it had during the 2007 trials


sum up of al khalid
*design(type 90II=type 90IIM=MBT2000=AL KHALID)
*armour(local but Ukrainian help)
*main gun(local)
*ammo local
*engine(Ukraine)
*era(by gids local)
*fcs and thermal imagers(French)
*tracks(local)
*BMS(gids)
*laser threat system(local by gids)
*GLATGM(Ukraine)
*solid state autoloader(local and by carepvt)
*optics/image intensifying sights(local)


while another successfull variant is developed called al khalid I
AND one another a further new designed al khalid 2 to enter service by 2015-16(55 tonnes,new turret)

Program started in 1991,with a span of 10 years IT WAS developed and entered by 2001



concludeyour self which country is followed the best way

while it has given much experience to pak the future al khalid 2 will have most of thing indigenous(including APS,FCS,SIGHTS)
EXCEPT THE ENGINE

 

[farhan_9909]

Simple question..

Does Al-Khalid deign is Pakistani ? if so what are the deign difference between a type-96 ?

From tank deign aspect..

type96 was a 2nd gen tank
while AK is based on type 90 China first 3rd gen tank

 

[farhan_9909]

Pakistani satellite launch.

.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
by China
.
.
.

while the budget of respected space agency also matter
and the suparco budget is way too small compare to isro

remember that the suparco launched sounding rocket in 1964(3rd country in Asia to do so and 10th at world level) and there was no agency named isro by than

but since than more focus was given to isro and more budget while suparco was neglected due to our leader with blindvision and no idea of What space agency do

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Simple question..

Does Al-Khalid deign is Pakistani ? if so what are the deign difference between a type-96 ?

From tank deign aspect..

type96 was a 2nd gen tank

while AK is based on type 90 China first 3rd gen tank

There is not much difference in deign aspect even between Chinese..

 

[sayareakd]

you see we take time to copy everything, still our guys (military) hate our product, while for you China copy and your guys love them more then Chines guys themselves.

 

[p2prada]

@farhan

I don't believe the Germans were involved in designing the Arjun. There is no literature claiming there was any German help during the time, ie, back in 1985. It is an all Indian design, but it looks similar to the Leo A4, that's about it.

Also, had the Israelis been involved with the tank's design, it wouldn't have been like the way it is today. For the turret. It is another Indian design. There are flaws in the turret that the Germans or Israelis wouldn't have made. So, no foreign help here.

The armour is also Indian.

The ammo is obviously local. The only other APFSDS manufacturers for Rifled gun are in Britain and we have no dealings with them. So, in this case, there is not a lot Russia/Israel can do for us.

Electronics requirements were top notch. Israeli companies are developing and manufacturing these things in JVs with Indian companies. The Indian component will be much greater eventually.

Btw, don't get riled up so easily. What others mean to say is that the AK is based on already existing designs and not designed from the ground up. There is no point disputing that. It is still a good deal if you are able to manufacture most of the tank without Chinese or Ukranian help, including engines and electronics. More or less.

 

[sayareakd]

*GLATGM

some new missile

 

[farhan_9909]

Design

The development of Arjun MBT began in March 1974. The tank heavily depends on foreign technology and equipment. Krauss Maffei, developer of the German Leopard 2 tank, provided the design assistance. Hence, the Arjun closely resembles Leopard 2A4 tank.

Arjun Main Battle Tank - Army Technology

while this is from only one site i can post from more reliable source including the tanknet


in the turret i meant in the latest mk2 variant Where IMI helped drdo.just Google it

well i will post about one arjun ammo later as i Am confirmed i saw it over the internet

the armour is local i agree.

And so in AK
the local components are increasing by the passage of time and as i said before most of the components in AK2 would be indigenous except from the engines

while the arjun did got helped Germany aswell and the prototype was ready by 1984

these are just lame excuses.
The type90 was tested for almost an decade.
Otherwise if we were to get the same type90 than we would have not ordered the t80ud.and started production of type 90 by 1991

 

[farhan_9909]

some new missile

launched from the main gun of a tank

 

[p2prada]

while this is from only one site i can post from more reliable source including the tanknet

However that is false. There is no German help.

Damian explains the flaws on the Arjun and compares it to NATO tanks including the Leo 2A4. In case the Germans did help, then they would have made a tank that is superior in design to the A4 and not inferior.

in the turret i meant in the latest mk2 variant Where IMI helped drdo.just Google it

IMI did not make major changes to anything. On the other hand, Israeli electronic companies were asked to design new systems with companies like BEL to fit into Arjun Mk2. As a matter of fact, IMI has been banned to do business in India since quite some time due to corruption charges. Anyway what IMI was tasked to do wasn't design changes but fixing small issues and improving some other aspects. For eg: IMI was involved in improving the production lines, minor adjustments in stabilization and accuracy and such things.

You can say they are actually a little better than regular consultants.

well i will post about one arjun ammo later as i Am confirmed i saw it over the internet

We don't really know anything about what's being developed now. But with IMI being blacklisted, the entire ammo project could very well be in a limbo. If most of the work is indigenous, then there will be less issues.

And so in AK
the local components are increasing by the passage of time and as i said before most of the components in AK2 would be indigenous except from the engines

these are just lame excuses.
The type90 was tested for almost an decade.
Otherwise if we were to get the same type90 than we would have not ordered the t80ud.and started production of type 90 by 1991

Improvements would have been made on the Type 90 with better manufacturing and metallurgy, including armour, maybe even the gun along with new electronics. But the point is the chassis, turret and the basic hull were all already designed by the Chinese. It is in fact just an uparmouring and upgradation program rather than a proper tank development from design to prototype to production like on Arjun.

Don't read too much into it. Like I said, if you can make most of the stuff on your own then there won't be problems for the PA.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Does any Pakistani member have factory pics of Al-Khalid ?

 

[Armand2REP]

as if you guys has developed everything on your own

Guy, my passport says Republique Francais on it and we develop 95% of our military. In fact, we are the most independent MIC in Europe and only behind USA.

a slight sum up on arjun

*design(German help)
*tracks(imported from germany)
*rifle bore gun(18th century tech)
*most of them are foreign
*ammo(Russian/Israel)
*thermal imagers (foreign)
*GLATGM LAHAT(ISRAEL)
*fcs/gcs(Israel)
*BMS(Israely modified by drdo)
*engine(German)
*turret(thanks to IMI)
*ERA (RUSSIAN)RIP OFF
*transmission(foreign)


development started in 1973
cost taken by the project is 20 times more than estimated
124 tanks ordered in 2004 while delivered in 2011.(less than 20 arjun manufacturing per year)
while i will not mention the list of problems it had during the 2007 trials


sum up of al khalid
*design(type 90II=type 90IIM=MBT2000=AL KHALID)
*armour(local but Ukrainian help)
*main gun(local)
*ammo local
*engine(Ukraine)
*era(by gids local)
*fcs and thermal imagers(French)
*tracks(local)
*BMS(gids)
*laser threat system(local by gids)
*GLATGM(Ukraine)
*solid state autoloader(local and by carepvt)
*optics/image intensifying sights(local)


while another successfull variant is developed called al khalid I
AND one another a further new designed al khalid 2 to enter service by 2015-16(55 tonnes,new turret)

Program started in 1991,with a span of 10 years IT WAS developed and entered by 2001



concludeyour self which country is followed the best way

while it has given much experience to pak the future al khalid 2 will have most of thing indigenous(including APS,FCS,SIGHTS)
EXCEPT THE ENGINE

Arjun is something like 51% foreign and 49% indigenous... that is a far higher ratio than Al Kahlid is to Pakistan. All the components produced in Pak are ToT from China.

 

[Bushra Aziz]

Guy, my passport says Republique Francais on it and we develop 95% of our military. In fact, we are the most independent MIC in Europe and only behind USA.



Arjun is something like 51% foreign and 49% indigenous... that is a far higher ratio than Al Kahlid is to Pakistan. All the components produced in Pak are ToT from China.

It is indigenous. I would like to share that Pakistan exports its parts also. It is among one of the best tanks.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

It is indigenous. I would like to share that Pakistan exports its parts also. It is among one of the best tanks.

It sin't indigenous, it has a Chinese chassis, Ukranian engine, at least 50% foreign (50% after sugar coating it and ignoring the fact that majority of components are manufactured through ToT from China). It's as indigenous as the T-90 Bheeshma is for India. After all T-90 has been upgraded with indian weapons systems, do we claim it as an Indian tank? no, it's Russian.

it isn't one of the best. not even close. It's armour is too light, and doesn't give advanced protection. It's ground pressure is higher than contemporary tanks, so it will sink in the sand and marshes.

Arjun is something like 51% foreign and 49% indigenous... that is a far higher ratio than Al Kahlid is to Pakistan. All the components produced in Pak are ToT from China.

Actually I heard it's close to 60% indigenous.

 

[Dazzler]

It sin't indigenous, it has a Chinese chassis, Ukranian engine, at least 50% foreign (50% after sugar coating it and ignoring the fact that majority of components are manufactured through ToT from China). It's as indigenous as the T-90 Bheeshma is for India. After all T-90 has been upgraded with indian weapons systems, do we claim it as an Indian tank? no, it's Russian.

it isn't one of the best. not even close. It's armour is too light, and doesn't give advanced protection. It's ground pressure is higher than contemporary tanks, so it will sink in the sand and marshes.

Actually I heard it's close to 60% indigenous.

Pakistan bought exclusive rights to produce Al Khalid based on type 90IIM, this is why China markets another variant based completely on Chinese subsystems which is what Bangladesh is going to induct. Heavy Industry Taxila designs and produces AK and AK-1, AK-2 is in prototyping stages and soon to be inducted. Whereas India DOES NOT design and produce T-90. Avadi only license assemble them from knocked down kits.

Well known fact.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Pakistan bought exclusive rights to produce Al Khalid based on type 90IIM, this is why China markets another variant based completely on Chinese subsystems which is what Bangladesh is going to induct. Heavy Industry Taxila designs and produces AK and AK-1, AK-2 is in prototyping stages and soon to be inducted. Whereas India DOES NOT design and produce T-90. Avadi only license assemble them from knocked down kits.

Well known fact.

In any case, I only used Bheeshma as an exaggerated example. My point was that a tank that is based on a Chinese chassis, contains a Ukrainian engine, and almost all its subsystems are foreign, how can you call it indigenous? If Pakistanis humbled up and called it Sino-Pak tank, or a Joint Venture, it'll be better.

 

[Dazzler]

In any case, I only used Bheeshma as an exaggerated example. My point was that a tank that is based on a Chinese chassis, contains a Ukrainian engine, and almost all its subsystems are foreign, how can you call it indigenous? If Pakistanis humbled up and called it Sino-Pak tank, or a Joint Venture, it'll be better.

Yes it is a joint venture as i admitted in my first post, no argument on it.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Yes it is a joint venture as i admitted in my first post, no argument on it.

But the majority of the Pakistanis call it a Pakistani tank, and the best tank in the world, and whatnot. You admitted it, you're sane, many others aren't.