Akash Surface-to-air Missile

[p2prada]

After Navy , IAF seems to have got some sense atleast now, but army still hasnt

Two mountain divisions are being raised along with an artillery division and will be deployed by 2012 in Assam. Ever heard of the ITBP and SFF?

And what's Navy go to do with Assam?

 

[gb009]

i am not answering to satisfy you. the point that it is a debate means people have divergent views. neither of us is the judge here nor is the forum a court. clear??

So now I am judging you? No comments!

how does asking the same thing which has been answered (satisfactorily or otherwise) makes sense??

By this logic IAF/Army should test DRDO stuff only once and if it fails the first time never test it again. My logic is simple, I din't get straight forward answers to my questions.

point is i have not said it is cutting edge. it may be better or worse. go read the posts again.

If you don't even know what all you have posted then we definitely should not be discussing. Check post #108 (your's). If you are against some one saying Akash is not cutting edge then what else could it mean?

Well since the only answer you can think of is "read my post"... lets look at your posts(not all replies are to me).

1. Weight of akash 700kg: your replies -

wrong. 700kg is the launch on weight. it has RAMJET propulsion which needs a booster to initiate it. this booster gets jettisoned within a few seconds.the point is Akash is considered LOW VOLUME LOW WEIGHT ramjet propelled missile.

You think I was talking about the weight of missile just before it hit the target? When DRDO says it weighs 700 kgs I suppose its undersotood that its the weight of the missile on the launcher. Simple logic is enough to understand that a 700 kg missile is more difficult to handle than a 300 kg missile logistically and also as far as the maneuverability of the launcher is concerned.

reason you quoted for weight is the booster for ramjet -

Ramjet is considered next generation not out dated. even our brahmos uses it. the advantage it affords is - you get sustained thrust. even BVR missiles like meteor/enhanced R-77m will have ramjet propulsion.

BRAHMOS is not a SAM, the other 2 are AAM so cant be compared. Lot of factors - aircraft is usually already flying at significant speed, AAM missile would not have to counter the gravitational forces like a SAM would have to as the flight path is more flat. Their boosters need not be as powerful or big.

2. Command guidance

even active seekers can be jammed!! Akash uses sophisticated software in it to home in with guidance from the radar. it's ECCM has been validated by the IAF. also Akash system runs on communication based on frequency hopping RF links, which only add to its jam proof capability.

Precisely my point. DRDO can't come up with a good enough seeker (that cannot be jammed) so its resorting to this old technique of using command guidance. The only good defence for this was given in post 60. Read it. But even that does not make it cutting edge.
How many modern SAMs do you know that use command guidance? How many that have their own seeker? Now why do you think people are moving from command guidance (full) to command guidance + seeker (terminal phase)?

3. Lakshya.
You have not replied as to how Lakshya can mimic a jet fighter. Now if Lakshya is used to test a missile with a seeker I assume it would be enough, because as long as the missile is maneuverable enough it has a good chance to hit the target as its using its own seeker. In case of Akash we can't be sure because "Pure command guidance is not normally used in modern SAM systems since it is too inaccurate during the terminal phase (when the missile is about to intercept the target)". i.e. given the inherent drawback of a solely command guided system how can we be sure that it will be just as effective against a super sonic fighter as it is against Lakshya?

4. More missile per launcher

number of lauchers have nothing to do with the weight of the missile.
(Missiles per launcher does.)i disagree. plus you also have to take into account mobility part. it gives tactical advantage of flexibility. IAF is happy with it.

So basically to account for mobility less missiles have to be put on the launcher. Guess why is that? Weight & size of Akash. Or do you mean having less missile on launcher gives tactical advantage of flexibility???
If we were to mount 16 Akash missiles on the launcher (like the PAC 3) I wonder how mobile (rather immobile) the launcher would be.


Please don't reply "Read my post".

 

[Sridhar]

few important excerpts from the interview.



Dr. Prahlada, Chief Controller R&D (SI) and DS Interview
(The Week Feb. 17, 2008)


Tactical missiles, which strike several war jets flying faster than sound, are more complex. Only three or four countries such as the US, Russia and France have developed operational multitarget-handling surface-to-air missile systems. With last month's user trials of Akash, India has entered the club. China and Taiwan may soon follow suit.
But there is something more to Akash. It uses solid fuel. No country, except Russia, has mastered solid fuel technology in tactical missiles. Not even the US. That way, DRDO scientists consider Akash superior to the US Patriot. Unlike Patriot, Akash does not coast while it approaches the target, and thus has a higher kill probability. Liquid-fuelled missiles like Patriot would have burnt up all the fuel before they reach the target. In solid-fuel systems, the fuel is rationed so that the velocity is maintained throughout the flight. "Because this missile has an integrated ram-rocket, manoeuvrability is highest. The engine is 'on' throughout the flight. The thrust is on till the missile intercepts the target," explained Prahlada.
With Akash, Indian scientists mastered two unique technologies-multi-function phased array system integration, and integration of ram-rocket propulsion, aerodynamics, structure, and control. "But the beauty of Akash is in something else-that we had 100 per cent success. We conducted nine trials, and not even one failed," said Prahlada.



How many countries have this technology?
In the whole world, Russia, the US, France have operational multitarget-handling missile systems for surface-to-air application. China claims they also have it. China and Taiwan may be making it. So this has not proliferated like ballistic missiles.



What were the user's concerns about Akash? The services have always had problems with DRDO-developed systems.
First, they [IAF] wanted accuracy. It is accurate. We have demonstrated it nine times. It was perfectly accurate all the nine times. Then they wanted consistency. Nine flights, and not a single misbehavior. The third concern was whether the complete weapon system, not just the missile, was ready. We have all that-the missile, the radar, the control centre, everything. In last month's test, we deployed all of them on the beach, where there was no existing infrastructure. We demonstrated the complete air defence function.



What is the kill probability?
On a single launch it is 88 per cent. Assured 88 per cent. So when the target enters the optimum kill zone, the commander gets a beep. Unless he has any other information, he will clear the launch. Then the missile is checked automatically, and it fires. When the missile flies, the radar tracks it. If the first missile does not take off due to any mistake, automatically a second missile gets launched.
Suppose the target is high priority, the commander would take no chances. He can then launch two missiles at the same target. One will go, and after 5 seconds the other will go. Then the kill probability is 99 per cent.


DRDO projects have always been plagued by delays. This also has been.


We are late by five to eight years. I agree. We promised to give it in 2000. But technologically, it is not obsolete. This is still state-of-the-art. You can't get such a system elsewhere. We own up the delay, but the delay has not caused the system to be obsolete. It is also cost-effective. You cannot get such a missile system for the price. For an Air Force squadron the cost is approximately Rs 500 crore, one missile about Rs 2 crore. For this class, this accuracy and this range, you won't get another system. Plus it is indigenous. You can upgrade it as you want, change its software, you can produce it the way you want. You want one per month or ten per month you can get it. The whole investment is within the country. No rupee is going out.

We took 20-21 years to perfect the missiles in the IGMDP. You take Barak [of Israel] or Patriot [of the US]. They also took more than 20 years for the first systems to be developed. So we didn't take more. We have done as good as the best in the world. They won't take 20 years to develop the second missile. Nor will India.







http://www.drdo.org/dpi/prahlada_interview.html

 

[Sridhar]

Info regarding the success rate of Patriots.

 

[ppgj]

Maitri is supposed to be some derivative of VL MICA which is in the same catagory (20-30km). Spyder is in there as well (15-35km).

Maitri was supposed to be based on TRISHUL which had some successes and some failures. somehow it has not worked. that is why DRDO wanted to engage MBDA.

as for Trishul itself it was a short range (9km), quick reaction missile.

Trishul is intended to counter a low level attack with a very quick reaction time and has an all weather capability. Trishul has a range of 9 km and is designed to counter a low level attack with a very quick reaction time.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/trishul.htm

Trishul missile system is not a failure. Technically it has met the performance objectives as per original Qualitative Requirements (QRs) though delayed. The main reason for this delay are technical problems in achieving perfect 3-beam guidance and obtaining millimetric wave components from abroad.

Trishul missile is a low-level, quick-reaction, short range, surface-to-air missile against air targets whereas,

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3210

if you saw the pictures i posted in the previous posts (from - livefist), you can see it is written over the missile SR-SAM.

 

[Armand2REP]

Apparently, Miatri is getting more range than just 9km. It puts it in the range of Akash, also an SR-SAM.

 

[ankur]

it is good to see that indian establishment have finally woken up to chinese actions along our border.deployment of 2 squadrons of SU-30MKI and akash missiles is the step in the right direction

 

[Kinshuk]

Please clarify how many missiles, does one sqd of akash System has?

 

[Agantrope]

Please clarify how many missiles, does one sqd of akash System has?

750 missiles and 6 Squadrons so when converted in terms of numbers/squadron it is 150 missiles/squadron

 

[ankur]

there are 24 missiles in a squadron according to wiki

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Akash seems to have scored orders for around 6100 + 4000 coroes which is Great. it would seem that atleast 1500-2000 akash missiles are in offing to be produced

 

[Kinshuk]

Akash Missile is claimed to be more accurate then Patriot. It has thrust during the entire course of its flight compared to the Patriot that has thrust only for the first 12 seconds. That sounds very safe..

Do we have any customers for the Akash SA missiles?

 

[ankur]

i don't think so and yes ur are right.it is better when compared to patriot and is one of the best SAM in the world

 

[notinlove]

Akash Missile is claimed to be more accurate then Patriot. It has thrust during the entire course of its flight compared to the Patriot that has thrust only for the first 12 seconds. That sounds very safe..

Do we have any customers for the Akash SA missiles?

i don't think so and yes ur are right.it is better when compared to patriot and is one of the best SAM in the world

Don't believe everything you read, go thru the akash missile thread you will find some very interesting views and discussions

 

[LETHALFORCE]

http://knol.google.com/k/vijainder-k-thakur/akash-missile/yo54fmdhy2mq/57#

Akash Missile
Medium range mobile anti-aircraft missile

Basically an upgraded Russian SA-6 system, the Akash is a command guided missile system that has been under development by DRDL for 25 years, and has already cost Rs. 516.86 crore, the highest for any of India's missile systems.
Contents

* Operational Status
* Missile Characteristics
* Development History
* Orders
* Additional IAF Order for Six Squadrons
* Future Development

Operational Status
Two squadrons of the missiles are operational with the IAF, an additional six are likely to be ordered soon (as of February 2010).

Each squadron will have two Flights equipped with four Akash launchers, and a total of 125 missiles. The total IAF order will now by for 1,000 missiles.

The Indian Army has shown interest in acquiring the missile. It is expected to order two Akash regiments with six firing batteries each, for around Rs 4,000 crore.

Missile Characteristics
The 720kg, 5.78-metre long missile has a diameter of 35 cm and a length of 5.78 meters. With a top speed of Mach 2.5, the missile can engage targets as far as 25 km away flying at heights ranging from 20m to 18kms.

The missile is supported by multi-target and multi-function phased array fire control radar called 'Rajendra' that has a range of about 60 km.

The Akash missile system is mobile, with the missile launcher, radar and command center all mounted on T-72 chassis.

The mobile command centre selects up to four of the most threatening air targets, and two Akash missiles are fired at each from the T-72 based Akash launchers, which move alongside. The Rajendra radar continuously guides the missiles, eventually “flying” them smack into the enemy fighters.

The Akash missile offers better maneuverability than typical surface-to-air missiles because it does not have a coast phase; it's boosted through out its flight envelope. According to DRDO, no other missile in the world offers this feature.

Development History
The first test flight of the missile was conducted in 1990, and since then many development and field trials have taken place.

The last field trials for the missile were conducted at Pokhran in Rajasthan in late 2007.

According to DRDO, the missile was tested 9 times during the last development phase and on all occasions met the guidance and accuracy control requirements.

However, the missile has consistently fallen short of IAF requirements, which wants a smaller, lighter missile with a longer range, greater maneuverability and an active seeker.

DRDO proposes to remove the shortcomings in the missile through batch-by-batch improvements.

Orders
Indian Air Force placed a Rs 1,200 crore order with Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) for two squadrons of medium range, surface-to-air missile Akash in 2008.

Bharat Electronics will be the nodal production agency along with Bharat Dynamics and there will be at least 40 industries from the public and private sectors that will be involved with the manufacture of these missiles in large numbers.

The Indian Army is reported to be interested in acquiring several Akash squadrons for its ground forces.

The DRDO’s Chief Controller for R&D, Prahlada, told Business Standard in early November 2009:

“I cannot say whether the army is interested in the Akash for its strike corps, or for another role. In any case, the Akash is a mobile system that is suitable for various roles.”

Additional IAF Order for Six Squadrons
On February 2, Defence Minister A. K. Antony told the press that the Defence Acquisition Council in a meeting on Monday, February 1, had cleared acquisition of an additional six Akash squadrons for the IAF.

The six squadrons are in addition to the two procured by the IAF earlier, he said, adding that the order value would be around Rs. 5,000 crore.

He said the IAF, which initially had doubts about the missiles capability, was noq keen to acquire additional squadrons after having been satisfied with the performance of the missiles systems that it had acquired.

“They (IAF) are now happy. There were doubts in the past, but now they are becoming a reality,” he said;

Future Development
India wants to build a version of Akash for use on ships, and is already looking into a longer range (60 kilometers) version.

 

[bengalraider]

The inside info i got (from somebody whom i will not name) says that the army is not really impressed with the AKASH, especially in the sands of the thar; they are only ordering it because the GOI is not willing to consider other options.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The SA-6's which Akash is modeled after; did well in the Egyptian desert against the Israelis, why is Akash unimpressive??

 

[venkat]

The inside info i got (from somebody whom i will not name) says that the army is not really impressed with the AKASH, especially in the sands of the thar; they are only ordering it because the GOI is not willing to consider other options.

DO you know the exact reason Bengal raider? is it the performance of the missile or the performance of the tracked wheel launchers in sand conditions?

 

[bengalraider]

DO you know the exact reason Bengal raider? is it the performance of the missile or the performance of the tracked wheel launchers in sand conditions?

the launch system breaks down too often! the guy i spoke to said that the unit at his base in rajasthan had experienced far too many breakdowns since it was inducted, the serviceability rate as per him hovered around 25-30 % only. i.e out of 12 missiles only 3-4 would actually come online at any given time. he told me the DRDO had been sending teams over on and off to rectify the problems , but as per the IA it was simply not acceptable for air Defence to be compromised for one second also.most problems had been faced with high temperatures and sand causing problems.

 

[blade]

Calling akash SAM just an upgraded version of SA-6 is a very very strange claim which i fail to understand.Is there anyone here ready to take up the task and prove the point with some sound technical reasoning? Whoever dose so must be ready to face my barrage of counter propositions where i will clearly prove with similar reasoning that many of the best SAM systems , claimed to have touched the ceiling of extreme technologies are nothing but some upgraded vintage SAMs.Just similar looks, use of solid state rocket propulsion dosnt make a SAM comparable to SA-6. Just the very introduction of a far far advanced guidance as well as dynamic computation makes Akash a SAM with a very very different tactical philosophy. Anyway lets not talk about all that. lets learn first how come so easily Akash can be termed as an upgraded SA 6 which took 25 years to fructify. Senior members please come
forward and tell me the solid reasons only. thank you