Akash Surface-to-air Missile

gb009

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sorry sir. that is not true. Akash has enviable record of 9/9 hits in trials. not many can boast of that.



http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/army-warmsto-akash-missile/375634/

just because it is DRDO product does not mean it is not cutting edge!! it is also disrespect to indian scientists.

not for nothing the extra orders for Akash batteries came. it was based on pure performance. IAF ordered a small number inspite of its performance. now they have become familiar and confident with it.

even army which was not interested (no surprise here) has come around and ordering them. and you say benefaction!! can you define me what is - 'cutting edge' according to you.
1. Akash has no seaker of its own. It is command guided for its entire duration. From wikipedia "Pure command guidance is not normally used in modern SAM systems since it is too inaccurate during the terminal phase (when the missile is about to intercept the target).". It did score perfectly in all trials but is there any information on whether the targets were maneuvering like a supersonic fighter would when trying to evade a missile.

2. This would also mean that if anti radiation missiles are fired by the fighter against the radar guiding Akash it may not be able to guide the missile properly.

3. Akash is heavier, bigger than other missiles of comparable/more range. If it was lighter may be we could have carried more missiles per launcher.
 

LETHALFORCE

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Why is the MSRAM lighter & smaller than AKASH when it has a longer range?
Akash is the only one which use ramjet propulsion it maybe difficult to make the missile smaller with ramjet acceleration.
 

LETHALFORCE

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http://peterpeng210.blogspot.com/2009/11/akash-indias-home-grown-patriot-missile.html

Akash, India’s Home-grown “Patriot” Missile (SAM)



The Indian Air Force (IAF) just placed an order to the Indian state-owned Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) for two squadrons of the Akash missiles. The Akash missile is a medium range surface-to-air missile (SAM), which is developed by the Indian Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) as part of the India’s Integrated Guided Missile Development Program (IGMDP).

Because more orders will come from the India’s armed forces for this indigenous missile system in the next three years, the state-owned Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) is working with private Indian companies Larsen & Toubro, Tata Power, Walchand Industries, and state-owned Electronic Corporation of India (ECIL) for the production of the Akash missile systems.

The Akash missile system consists of radars, mobile launchers, control canters, battlefield management software, and other support systems (see the picture above). Its radars simultaneously can track 64 objects and guide 12 missiles at most. The Akash missile is 5.78m long and weighs 700kg with a warhead of 60kg. It can destroy targets 25 km away and has a supersonic speed of 600m/s (1.8 mach). It has an 85 per cent kill probability.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) will primarily use the system for attacks from unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAV), aircraft, and missiles. The indigenous Akash is said on the same class as the U.S. Patriot, Israel’s Barak, and U.K.’s SAM missile systems, but its speed and range are actually much less. Compared with Akash’s 25km and 1.8 mach, all these foreign medium range missiles feature a range of 70 to 150 km and a speed of 4 to 5 mach.

The IAF had been ever reluctant to acquire the Akash missile system before. In 2008, several senior officers of the Indian Air Force expressed their un-satisfaction to the Akash system in the Indian Western Air Force Command Meeting. One senior officer suggested the Indian air force not to purchase the Akash, saying the IAF needed more maneuverability and greater range from the missile system.

After the IAF has been assured that the missile system will be improved batch by batch and will go concord with the operating requirements of the IAF, the Akash finally was allowed to join into the IAF family.

Besides placing the order to the indigenous Akash, the IAF still has not slowed its steps to buy air defensive missiles from abroad. According to Israel media, in Nov. 2009 Israel and India has just signed a 1.1 billion US dollars contract for purchasing Israeli Barak-8 surface-to-air missile systems, which will be handed over to the IAF six to eight years later before 2017.
 

LETHALFORCE

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http://knol.google.com/k/vijainder-k-thakur/akash-missile/yo54fmdhy2mq/57#

Akash Missile

Medium range mobile anti-aircraft missile
Basically an upgraded Russian SA-6 system, the Akash is a command guided missile system that has been under development by DRDL for 25 years, and has already cost Rs. 516.86 crore, the highest for any of India's missile systems.
Contents

* Operational Status
* Missile Characteristics
* Development History
* Orders
* Additional IAF Order for Six Squadrons
* Future Development

Operational Status
Two squadrons of the missiles are operational with the IAF, an additional six are likely to be ordered soon (as of February 2010).

Each squadron will have two Flights equipped with four Akash launchers, and a total of 125 missiles. The total IAF order will now by for 1,000 missiles.

The Indian Army has shown interest in acquiring the missile. It is expected to order two Akash regiments with six firing batteries each, for around Rs 4,000 crore.

Missile Characteristics
The 720kg, 5.78-metre long missile has a diameter of 35 cm and a length of 5.78 meters. With a top speed of Mach 2.5, the missile can engage targets as far as 25 km away flying at heights ranging from 20m to 18kms.

The missile is supported by multi-target and multi-function phased array fire control radar called 'Rajendra' that has a range of about 60 km.

The Akash missile system is mobile, with the missile launcher, radar and command center all mounted on T-72 chassis.

The mobile command centre selects up to four of the most threatening air targets, and two Akash missiles are fired at each from the T-72 based Akash launchers, which move alongside. The Rajendra radar continuously guides the missiles, eventually “flying” them smack into the enemy fighters.

The Akash missile offers better maneuverability than typical surface-to-air missiles because it does not have a coast phase; it's boosted through out its flight envelope. According to DRDO, no other missile in the world offers this feature.

Development History
The first test flight of the missile was conducted in 1990, and since then many development and field trials have taken place.

The last field trials for the missile were conducted at Pokhran in Rajasthan in late 2007.

According to DRDO, the missile was tested 9 times during the last development phase and on all occasions met the guidance and accuracy control requirements.

However, the missile has consistently fallen short of IAF requirements, which wants a smaller, lighter missile with a longer range, greater maneuverability and an active seeker.

DRDO proposes to remove the shortcomings in the missile through batch-by-batch improvements.

Orders
Indian Air Force placed a Rs 1,200 crore order with Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) for two squadrons of medium range, surface-to-air missile Akash in 2008.

Bharat Electronics will be the nodal production agency along with Bharat Dynamics and there will be at least 40 industries from the public and private sectors that will be involved with the manufacture of these missiles in large numbers.

The Indian Army is reported to be interested in acquiring several Akash squadrons for its ground forces.

The DRDO’s Chief Controller for R&D, Prahlada, told Business Standard in early November 2009:

“I cannot say whether the army is interested in the Akash for its strike corps, or for another role. In any case, the Akash is a mobile system that is suitable for various roles.”

Additional IAF Order for Six Squadrons

On February 2, Defence Minister A. K. Antony told the press that the Defence Acquisition Council in a meeting on Monday, February 1, had cleared acquisition of an additional six Akash squadrons for the IAF.

The six squadrons are in addition to the two procured by the IAF earlier, he said, adding that the order value would be around Rs. 5,000 crore.

He said the IAF, which initially had doubts about the missiles capability, was noq keen to acquire additional squadrons after having been satisfied with the performance of the missiles systems that it had acquired.

“They (IAF) are now happy. There were doubts in the past, but now they are becoming a reality,” he said;

Future Development
India wants to build a version of Akash for use on ships, and is already looking into a longer range (60 kilometers) version.
 

Singh

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sorry sir. that is not true. Akash has enviable record of 9/9 hits in trials. not many can boast of that.

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/army-warmsto-akash-missile/375634/

just because it is DRDO product does not mean it is not cutting edge!! it is also disrespect to indian scientists.
I am not obligated to respect anyone, especially not if they blow their own "underwhelming" trumpet all the time.

not for nothing the extra orders for Akash batteries came. it was based on pure performance. IAF ordered a small number inspite of its performance. now they have become familiar and confident with it.
even army which was not interested (no surprise here) has come around and ordering them. and you say benefaction!! can you
Believe you me. St. Anthony is the patron saint of desi defence companies.

define me what is - 'cutting edge' according to you.
I will define what cutting edge is not - A "claimed" Mr-Sam that

1. Weighs 700kgs
2. Has no seeker on board
3. Has a range of 25km
4. can be outflown by a F-16

--

However in a SR Sam/Shorad role it will do an okay job. Nothing fancy.
 

NSG_Blackcats

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I am not obligated to respect anyone, especially not if they blow their own "underwhelming" trumpet all the time.
It really does not matter whom you and me respect or not. Here the user (in this case IAF) is satisfied with the performance of Akash SAM and that is what matters. If you believe Defense Minister of India can arm twist any of our Defense forces to use certain systems than I have nothing to say.

But as far as I know, no defense Minister of India can arm twist our forces to use a faulty system.

Regarding cutting edge technology we all know how patriot system has performed. Aren't we??
 

ppgj

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I am not obligated to respect anyone, especially not if they blow their own "underwhelming" trumpet all the time.
i did not ask you to respect them. my point was if somebody has done a good job, even if you don't feel like respecting them, atleast don't crticise them.

Believe you me. St. Anthony is the patron saint of desi defence companies.
yes, with our army going full throttle inducting all of them right??

point is irrespective of an equipment being indian or foreign, they have to go thro' trials and prove. Akash has proved it and considered superior to even Patriot Systems.

I will define what cutting edge is not - A "claimed" Mr-Sam that

1. Weighs 700kgs
wrong. 700kg is the launch on weight. it has RAMJET propulsion which needs a booster to initiate it. this booster gets jettisoned within a few seconds.

the point is Akash is considered LOW VOLUME LOW WEIGHT ramjet propelled missile.

2. Has no seeker on board
even active seekers can be jammed!! Akash uses sophisticated software in it to home in with guidance from the radar. it's ECCM has been validated by the IAF. also Akash system runs on communication based on frequency hopping RF links, which only add to its jam proof capability.

3. Has a range of 25km
because it is designed for low flying (even tree top!!) targets. different priority different system. nothing to do with being negative.

4. can be outflown by a F-16
Akash can maneour itself and hit targets maneouring themselves at 600 m/sec. you decide for yourself.

--

However in a SR Sam/Shorad role it will do an okay job. Nothing fancy.
nobody is talking fancy. it is designed for a certain priority which it is doing very well. that is all.
 

ppgj

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1. Akash has no seaker of its own. It is command guided for its entire duration.
check my previous the post.

It did score perfectly in all trials but is there any information on whether the targets were maneuvering like a supersonic fighter would when trying to evade a missile.
heard of Lakshya??

2. This would also mean that if anti radiation missiles are fired by the fighter against the radar guiding Akash it may not be able to guide the missile properly.
IAF has validated Akash's ECCM and it's jam proof capability.

3. Akash is heavier, bigger than other missiles of comparable/more range. If it was lighter may be we could have carried more missiles per launcher.
check my previous post.
 

Singh

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It really does not matter whom you and me respect or not. Here the user (in this case IAF) is satisfied with the performance of Akash SAM and that is what matters. If you believe Defense Minister of India can arm twist any of our Defense forces to use certain systems than I have nothing to say.

But as far as I know, no defense Minister of India can arm twist our forces to use a faulty system.

Regarding cutting edge technology we all know how patriot system has performed. Aren't we??
Fyi Government calls the shots.

Never said the system is faulty. However, Why do we praise mediocrity ? Is it too much to ask for a world class product ?

Patriot is almost a 4 decade old MR-SAM converted to a successful(check its exports) LR-SAM and ABM system.

---

i did not ask you to respect them. my point was if somebody has done a good job, even if you don't feel like respecting them, atleast don't crticise them.
yes, with our army going full throttle inducting all of them right??
Army is on the process of ordering Akash (order worth 4000 crores)

To support my point -> "Antony has said time and again that procurement policies must demonstrate a positive bias in favour of Indian industry, defence purchases are down to a trickle and what little is being bought is through the government-to-government foreign military sales (FMS) route rather than directly from private sector arms manufacturers. That way, Antony manages to avoid controversy"
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/aditi-phadnis-in-defenceantony/386253/

point is irrespective of an equipment being indian or foreign, they have to go thro' trials and prove. Akash has proved it and considered superior to even Patriot Systems.
SERIOUS ?

wrong. 700kg is the launch on weight. it has RAMJET propulsion which needs a booster to initiate it. this booster gets jettisoned within a few seconds.
the point is Akash is considered LOW VOLUME LOW WEIGHT ramjet propelled missile.
The point is it weighs 700kgs and has a huge airframe. Lesser number of missiles per launcher. (Also requires a huge convoy of vehicles ). More logistics issue.

even active seekers can be jammed!! Akash uses sophisticated software in it to home in with guidance from the radar. it's ECCM has been validated by the IAF. also Akash system runs on communication based on frequency hopping RF links, which only add to its jam proof capability.
because it is designed for low flying (even tree top!!) targets. different priority different system. nothing to do with being negative.
Akash can maneour itself and hit targets maneouring themselves at 600 m/sec. you decide for yourself.
Could you tell me why most of the modern SAMs have stopped using Ramjet propulsion, reduce the frames, weight of the missiles and added seekers ? I mean is Akash by going back to 70s tech better than the modern missiles ?

nobody is talking fancy. it is designed for a certain priority which it is doing very well. that is all.
It was originally designed for a MR-SAM role. However it is now being used as a SHORAD, and Barak was asked to develop a MR-SAM for the armed forces. In the role of a SHORAD, the system is okay though not without serious logistics issues.

check my previous the post.
heard of Lakshya??
The subsonic drone ?

IAF has validated Akash's ECCM and it's jam proof capability.
check my previous post.
And that is an essential requirement for induction ?

----

The future MR-SAM and LR-SAM will be Israelis and this is curtains for Akash programme. Trishul having failed too, the Navy has adopted Barak-1 as its point defense missile and the future LLQRM will be either Israeli(if we get a good defence minister) or French (if Anthony continues).
 

Armand2REP

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So how does Maitri affect Akash and Spyder buys? Why is India going through so many different systems?
 

ppgj

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Army is on the process of ordering Akash (order worth 4000 crores)
i know that. i was only referring to the history of the army's attitude to drdo. they ordered only when IAF added more of them.

SERIOUS ?
why? knowing how the patriots have performed, i would rather beleive our scientists.

firang does not mean they are always good.

The point is it weighs 700kgs and has a huge airframe. Lesser number of missiles per launcher. (Also requires a huge convoy of vehicles ). More logistics issue.
number of lauchers have nothing to do with the weight of the missile.

Could you tell me why most of the modern SAMs have stopped using Ramjet propulsion, reduce the frames, weight of the missiles and added seekers ? I mean is Akash by going back to 70s tech better than the modern missiles ?
Ramjet is considered next generation not out dated. even our brahmos uses it. the advantage it affords is - you get sustained thrust. even BVR missiles like meteor/enhanced R-77m will have ramjet propulsion.

It was originally designed for a MR-SAM role. However it is now being used as a SHORAD, and Barak was asked to develop a MR-SAM for the armed forces. In the role of a SHORAD, the system is okay though not without serious logistics issues.
the point is it is MR-SAM which takes care of even tree top targets.

The subsonic drone ?
no body wastes shooting real fighters in trials unless they are missiles. that is why you use lakshya to replicate a moving target. bring on an F-16, let's see the result.

And that is an essential requirement for induction ?
what else? so what is tested if it is firang??

Akash has proved both hits and jam proof capability to the end users.

----
 
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LETHALFORCE

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Brahmos missile uses a ramjet engine,most cruise missiles like tomahawk use a turbofan or jet type engine Brahmos maybe one of the few or only cruise missiles that does ; and look at the size of Brahmos, to fit that same type of ramjet engine into a SAM must have been a daunting task and an achievement.
 
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ppgj

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Brahmos missile uses a ramjet engine, it maybe one of the few or only cruise missiles that do and look at the size of Brahmos, to fit that same engine into a SAM must have been a daunting task and an achievement.
it is LF. only speaks of volumes of our scientists.
 

ppgj

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So how does Maitri affect Akash and Spyder buys? Why is India going through so many different systems?
Armand, it does not affect AKASH or SPYDER. MAITRI is supposed to be SR-SAM. some pictures here and links.





Here's the Maitri short-range surface to air missile (SR-SAM) on display at the MBDA stall. This is the programme that succeeds the defunct Trishul shipborne point-defence missile programme, and is a joint venture between DRDO and MBDA, with developmental feeds from the VL-MICA and Trishul programmes. (Photos by Shiv Aroor)

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/02/trishuls-successor-drdo-mbda-maitri-sr.html

http://www.india-defence.com/reports/2946

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3878

however latest status is not known.
 

Singh

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i know that. i was only referring to the history of the army's attitude to drdo. they ordered only when IAF added more of them.
What ?

why? knowing how the patriots have performed, i would rather beleive our scientists.
firang does not mean they are always good.
Please check the timeline and the status of Patriot programme. It is miles ahead of Akash.

number of lauchers have nothing to do with the weight of the missile.
Missiles per launcher does.

Ramjet is considered next generation not out dated. even our brahmos uses it. the advantage it affords is - you get sustained thrust. even BVR missiles like meteor/enhanced R-77m will have ramjet propulsion.
It makes sense for NG LR BVRAAM's to use ramjet but not for Shorads.

the point is it is MR-SAM which takes care of even tree top targets.
It is a SHORAD. The MR-SAM for armed forces is under development in Israel.

no body wastes shooting real fighters in trials unless they are missiles. that is why you use lakshya to replicate a moving target. bring on an F-16, let's see the result.
what else? so what is tested if it is firang??
Akash has proved both hits and jam proof capability to the end users.
----
FYI Akash is a reverse engineered and "improved" SA-6. Check BR and see the pics.
http://www.ausairpower.net/3M9ME-Gainful-Launch-MiroslavGyurosi-1S.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Akash_SAM.jpg/800px-Akash_SAM.jpg

Brahmos missile uses a ramjet engine,most cruise missiles like tomahawk use a turbofan or jet type engine Brahmos maybe one of the few or only cruise missiles that does ; and look at the size of Brahmos, to fit that same type of ramjet engine into a SAM must have been a daunting task and an achievement.
it is LF. only speaks of volumes of our scientists.
Are you serious ?

Aakash and Brahmos 2 different programmes. India still doesn't have its hands on Brahmos propulsion, read the news.
Kudos to Russians for mating a ramjet propulsion in a cruise missile.
Ramjet based SAM's have been in existence for over half a century. Even Akash is based on SA-6 which was developed around 50 years back.
 

p2prada

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Akash is just a regular SAM with some good propulsion. It is not cutting edge. It is no where close to the Patriot system. It just fills up the inventory and pretty ok if it is meant to replace some of our older SAMS. It is like LCA for the Air force. No matter how juicy the brochure looks like there are always better stuff out there. I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of the MR-SAM from Israel.
 

ppgj

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my original comment on this was more a sarcastic one on army's history of anti drdo bias.

when IAF understood the value of Akash and ordered more, army has jumped in. still proves a point for Akash.

Please check the timeline and the status of Patriot programme. It is miles ahead of Akash.
so what does this prove inspite of the great timeline?

A U.S. attempt to shoot down a ballistic missile mimicking an attack from Iran failed
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6104F420100201

Missiles per launcher does.
i disagree. plus you also have to take into account mobility part. it gives tactical advantage of flexibility. IAF is happy with it.

It makes sense for NG LR BVRAAM's to use ramjet but not for Shorads.
it suits any missile because it gives the advantage of sustained thrust, making it difficult for the target to escape.

It is a SHORAD. The MR-SAM for armed forces is under development in Israel.
no it is MR-SAM.

The Akash system is a medium range surface-to-air
missile
with multi-target engagement capability.
http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cach...ile&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in&client=firefox-a

Akash is an all weather area air defence weapon system for defending vulnerable areas against medium range air targets penetrating from low, medium and high altitudes. The system is designed to neutralize multiple aerial targets attacking from several directions simultaneously. The system is autonomous and its operation is fully automated. The system is configured to be cross country mobile on tracked chasses for the Army or road mobile on Tatra chasses. This provides flexibility in deployment.
http://www.drdo.com/bnews/jan08/akash_test.htm

Akash (Sanskrit: आकाश Ākāś "Sky") is India's medium range surface-to-air missile defense system developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Bharat Electronics Limited(BEL) as part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Program.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akash_missile

spyder system too is MRSAM but falls in higher range within the band while Akash falls in the lower range with emphasis on taking down low flying aircrafts.

PAKFA has influence of F-22 and YF-23. that does not mean it is an RE product.

plus SA-6 had semi active homing system where as Akash is radar guided. SA-6's probability of hit is bad.

Are you serious ?

Aakash and Brahmos 2 different programmes. India still doesn't have its hands on Brahmos propulsion, read the news.
Kudos to Russians for mating a ramjet propulsion in a cruise missile.
Ramjet based SAM's have been in existence for over half a century. Even Akash is based on SA-6 which was developed around 50 years back.
ofc kudos to the russians for putting ramjet propulsion on brahmos.

however putting it on a SAM is drdo's work.
 

Armand2REP

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Armand, it does not affect AKASH or SPYDER. MAITRI is supposed to be SR-SAM. some pictures here and links.
Akash is a SR-SAM too (25km). Maitri is supposed to be some derivative of VL MICA which is in the same catagory (20-30km). Spyder is in there as well (15-35km). It looks like a whole lot of redundant capabilities with the Akash being the only one with solid orders.


however latest status is not known.
Looks like we are still in discussions.

France Pledges Surface to Air Missile Technology Transfer

Dated 11/2/2009

France is ready to transfer technology of its surface-to-air missile to Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) of India so that this country can build its own version, French Minister of State for Defence Jean-Marie Bockel said today. Speaking to reporters on the sidelines of air show, Aero India 2009, he said the offer is currently under discussions with Indian authorities.

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4218
 

Singh

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my original comment on this was more a sarcastic one on army's history of anti drdo bias.
when IAF understood the value of Akash and ordered more, army has jumped in. still proves a point for Akash.
so what does this prove inspite of the great timeline?

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6104F420100201
You know you are not helping your cause by trying to portray that somehow Patriot is a failure and inferior to Akash.
Okay you believe Akash is the world's best missile, even better than the Patriot and Army and Airforce are corrupt who don't want this missile. Sorry but I don't subscribe to BS nor do I wish to humour you.

i disagree. plus you also have to take into account mobility part. it gives tactical advantage of flexibility. IAF is happy with it.
it suits any missile because it gives the advantage of sustained thrust, making it difficult for the target to escape.
SA-6 had tracked chasis from the beginning. SA-6 had an advantage of sustained thrust 40 years back. Gee I wonder why Russians decide to go in for solid propellent rocket motors ?

25km = Shorad.
If its a MR-SAm then why is Indian govt going for Barak-2 Mr-sam ?

spyder system too is MRSAM but falls in higher range within the band while Akash falls in the lower range with emphasis on taking down low flying aircrafts.
Spyder Sr is Sr, Spyder Mr is Mr.

PAKFA has influence of F-22 and YF-23. that does not mean it is an RE product.
plus SA-6 had semi active homing system where as Akash is radar guided. SA-6's probability of hit is bad.
Comparing Pak-fa with Akash ? And by the way SA-6 took down over 60 crafts in the Yom Kippur war.
And kudos to DRDO for removing seekers from SA-6 and giving it solely radar guidance. So Next Gen. Not.

ofc kudos to the russians for putting ramjet propulsion on brahmos.
however putting it on a SAM is drdo's work.
absolute rubbish. There is nothing spectacular about a ramjet SAM. And Drdo scientist fit a SA-6 like ramjet propulsion in a SA-6 like missile. This was done by Ruskies 50 years back.
 

notinlove

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Don't want to get dragged in the heated debate(as i am already engaged in a few :p) but still just a pointer

For AAM's and SAM's (in simpler terms missiles that have to chase fighter aircrafts) Higher speed Doesn't always equate to a better missile system

because the turn rates required for a missile increase as the ratio of the velocities of the missile and the aircraft.

for example . let us say a fighter flying at mach 1 is being chased by a missile flying at mach 3

If the fighter pulls a tight 9g turn then to keep up with the fighter the missile will have to pull 9x(3/1)^2 = 81g turn rate .... not always possible :)
 

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