AH-64E Apache attack helicopter

[Bhadra]

It doesn't work that way. Most indian products have way higher indigenous content than what you are suggesting.

...................................

Innovation and research happens gradually.

How gradual is this gradual ... 60 years for MPATGM, 30 years for Arjun, 35 years for making a Bofors gun with TOT ..... How many years of Tejas, How many years of LCH ?
Unless you coin the word - Hindu Rate of Research to further defame Hindus .. the model has not worked and is not working.

You build something and then test it in field and then improve it in successive iteration. Once you achieve desired profile you mass produce to bring cost down. All major powers do this from US to Russia and even China

That is fine.
But the story here is different. DRDO / MoD want induction from drawing boards and block modernisation in that technology by import even as an interim measure. Atk missiles are a case in point. Tejas is a case in point. This system has harmed Services tremendously..

Going for imports breaks the entire cycle and destroys feedback + funding loop.

Wrong notion. No one stops DRDO to induct things for experiment or feedback. Thousands on feedbacks on INSAS I think.
2-3% of Defense Budget to DRDO is not any less amount. No import should stop research. DRDO is not Lockheed Martin who should stop development on a product for commercial considerations.

Foreign reserve are always at play for a nation that imports 80% of its oil. This stark reality can not be neglected. Unless India achieves energy security and removes its oil import dependency savings hard earned dollars is a sacred duty of GOI.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

Not your or my job. In that field too there are suckers like ONGC / IOC etc who have been living on public money.
The Nehruvian model of research is a failure.

The largest sufferers have been the Armed Forces - the soldier and defense of India.

 

[Immanuel]

Any system ordered in small numbers will inherently expensive. They should have orders for 10-20K Nag and then the cost will fall by another 30%.

 

[Bhadra]

Any system ordered in small numbers will inherently expensive. They should have orders for 10-20K Nag and then the cost will fall by another 30%.

Whatever order has been given is thrust down the throat. The reasons are obvious:

# After being fitted with NAG launchers, BMP-2 does not remain an ICV but become a missile carrier platform. Mechanised Infantry battalion therefore will not utilise these vehicle.
# The vehicles and platforms will be utilised by specialised forces like Recce and Support battalions and may be missile battalions. These are very few and limited in numbers.
# There are grave deficiencies in ground launched version. It has an active IR seeker which function as Lock on Before the Launch (LOBL). It means that the operator must see, identify and acquire the target before the launching missile. That reduces the actaul range of a missile to say 2-3 km only against stated 7 km.

# However the missile is for 7 km range making it about 45 kn in weight which the user is not able to exploit but paying for it and lugging an unnecessary weight.

# The minimum range of missile was 700m which I think has been reduced 400m. However, that is too much for a ground launched system,

# A comparable ATK missile of third generation with 2.5 to 3 km range is half the price. Why should IA made to pay double the price for an inefficient job.

So far not inducted !!

 

[WolfPack86]

Why can't India buy MI-28 Night Hunter. MI-28 Night Hunter is now improved with new fire control radar and anti missile defensive system. It is heavily armoured it can carry 16 anti tank missile and unguided rockets. If America put sanction on India this is the best option we have.

 

[uoftotaku]

Why can't India buy MI-28 Night Hunter. MI-28 Night Hunter is now improved with new fire control radar and anti missile defensive system. It is heavily armoured it can carry 16 anti tank missile and unguided rockets. If America put sanction on India this is the best option we have.

Same reason why IAF wants Rafale rather than MiG-35. Russian equipment in the modern day has proven to be all show no go.

 

[WolfPack86]

Same reason why IAF wants Rafale rather than MiG-35. Russian equipment in the modern day has proven to be all show no go.

Then how about Eurocopter Tiger attack helicopter. This helicopter is good as Apache attack helicopter.

 

[WolfPack86]

EuroCopter Tiger attack helicopter is the best choice for Indian Army.

 

[uoftotaku]

Then how about Eurocopter Tiger attack helicopter. This helicopter is good as Apache attack helicopter.

Tiger has proven extremely expensive to operate and maintain. It's capabilities have fallen short due to failures of key weapons and sensor systems during development or funding shortfalls from development partners. The program has also suffered from schizophrenic requirement from its founding partner nations (Germany, France and Spain) resulting in several vastly different versions having to be developed concurrently but none reaching full capability or economy of scale. It is in no way comparable to Apache as its weapons capacity is short on many factors. And it has not seen export success, Read on experience of Australia (the only major non-EU customer) and the horror show they have undergone. Same story they are getting with NH-90, to the extent that Australia decided to buy more Blackhawks rather than wait for NH-90's to be fully mission capable

 

[asianobserve]

EuroCopter Tiger attack helicopter is the best choice for Indian Army.

Unhappy Australia Joins Study of Tiger Attack Helicopter Upgrade
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ai...ins-study-tiger-attack-helicopter-upgrade?amp

Buyer’s remorse: Australia’s sorry record on defence hardware
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...e-australias-sorry-record-on-defence-hardware

 

[WolfPack86]

Tiger has proven extremely expensive to operate and maintain. It's capabilities have fallen short due to failures of key weapons and sensor systems during development or funding shortfalls from development partners. The program has also suffered from schizophrenic requirement from its founding partner nations (Germany, France and Spain) resulting in several vastly different versions having to be developed concurrently but none reaching full capability or economy of scale. It is in no way comparable to Apache as its weapons capacity is short on many factors. And it has not seen export success, Read on experience of Australia (the only major non-EU customer) and the horror show they have undergone. Same story they are getting with NH-90, to the extent that Australia decided to buy more Blackhawks rather than wait for NH-90's to be fully mission capable

Then I think Rudra attack helicopter and Light combat helicopter is sufficient for Indian Army.

 

[WolfPack86]

Unhappy Australia Joins Study of Tiger Attack Helicopter Upgrade
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2015-09-10/unhappy-australia-joins-study-tiger-attack-helicopter-upgrade?amp

Buyer’s remorse: Australia’s sorry record on defence hardware
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...e-australias-sorry-record-on-defence-hardware

Rudra attack helicopter and Light combat helicopter is the best solution for Indian Army.

 

[itsme]

Rudra attack helicopter and Light combat helicopter is the best solution for Indian Army.

Both are not in the same class as Apache. Apache is a heavy attack heli while LCH is a light attack heli and Rudra is not a pure attack heli.

 

[WolfPack86]

Make in India a huge success for the Boeing’s Apaches: IAF is getting ready to receive the first Apache Helicopter next month
The entire delivery of these helicopters will be completed by March 2020. The Indian private sector has a significant role in the production of these attack helicopters.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is getting ready to induct the first batch of the AH-64E (I) – Apache Guardian helicopter in its stable next month.

The entire delivery of these helicopters will be completed by March 2020. The Indian private sector has a significant role in the production of these attack helicopters.

On Monday, Indian company Rossell Techsys delivered a high-quality component — the 1000th electrical panel for the AH-64 Apache to Boeing. The company has been a long-standing Boeing supplier in India, since 2013 and the contract for AH-64 Apache components were awarded in March 2017 and another contract for the V-22 Osprey components in August of the same year. Earlier this year the company had delivered the 15,000th wire harness to Boeing for the AH-64 Apache.

Says Salil Gupte, president, Boeing India, “Boeing remains committed to investing in India’s supplier capability and a local work-force across manufacturing engineering services, training and skills development, to create a world-class aerospace ecosystem in India.”

In an earlier interaction, Boeing officials had told Financial Express Online that Boeing has invested significantly in the development of a robust aerospace ecosystem in India with over 160 existing industrial partners.

Large sections have of the machines have been built in India by companies including Bengaluru based Dynamatic Technologies Ltd, which was one of the first companies in the private sector in 2010 to be approved by Boeing to be a supplier and the Tata- Boeing joint venture which has built the complete fuselage.

The helicopters are expected to reach an Indian port later this month in semi-knocked down (SKD) condition, which will be reassembled, and will be re-tested before they get formally inducted in the IAF service.

India has purchased these 22 Boeing helicopters through the Foreign Military sales for $ 1.1 billion from the US and is expected to replace the existing Russian Mi-35 (assault helicopter which is used to carry troops). These flying machines will be based in Pathankot and North East.

According to the contract signed between the governments of India and the US and M/S Boeing Company, there is also a clause for a follow on order for 11 more machines.

Both air and ground crew have undergone intensive training at the training facilities at US Army base Fort Rucker, Alabama. These trained men have been identified to lead the operationalization of the Apache fleet in the IAF.

To suit the future requirements of the IAF, these machines which are part of the modernization efforts have been customized for the air force.

Besides being useful for operations in the mountainous terrain, they also have the capability to carry out precision attacks at ranges and can operate in hostile airspace with threats from the ground.

Through data networking, these helicopters can transmit and receive the battlefield picture, to and from the weapon systems, thus making it a lethal acquisition. They will also provide a significant edge to the IAF in any future joint operations in support of land forces. Also, sales of the fire control radars, Hellfire Longbow missiles, Stinger Block I-92H missiles, night vision sensors, and inertial navigation systems have been approved by the US administration.
https://www.financialexpress.com/de...e-first-apache-helicopter-next-month/1603265/

 

[WolfPack86]

Apache Helicopters on way, to be deployed in Pathankot
The first US-made Apache AH-64E attack helicopter is set to arrive in India by mid-July and will be inducted into the Indian Air Force a few weeks later at the frontline Pathankot Air Force Station.

The helicopter is slated to arrive on July 18 and will come from the Boeing facility in the US in heavy-lift cargo plane C-17. Sources said the induction is planned at Pathankot as it already holds a unit of Soviet/Russian attack helicopters.

This is the first attack helicopter from the US. The IAF currently uses Soviet/Russian origin Mi-25/Mi-35 helicopters. These are tasked with tank formations. Earlier, Boeing had handed over the first Apache to an IAF official at a production facility in Mesa, Arizona, on May 11.

The IAF had signed a contract with the US Government and Boeing in September 2015 for 22 Apaches.

Select air and ground crew have undergone training at the training facilities in US. The helicopter has been customised to suit IAF’s future requirements and will have significant capability in mountainous terrain. It can fly up to an altitude of 21,000 feet.

The helicopter has the capability to carry out precision attacks at standoff ranges and operate in hostile airspace with threats from ground.

The ability of these helicopters to transmit and receive the battlefield picture to and from the weapon systems through data networking makes it a lethal acquisition.

These helicopters will provide a significant edge in any future joint operations in support of land forces.

The Apache is fitted with new sensors, avionics and has improved night operation capabilities. Furthermore, it can control a couple of UAVs.

The airframe is designed to withstand hits from guns of up to 12.7 mm calibre. Rotor blades can withstand hits from 23 mm guns. The pilots get systems for the detection and attack of targets. The AH-64E comes with a 30 mm M230 cannon with 1,200 rounds of ammunition.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/Apache-Helicopters-on-way,-to-be-deployed-in-Pathankot-585557

 

[Indibomber]

Both are not in the same class as Apache. Apache is a heavy attack heli while LCH is a light attack heli and Rudra is not a pure attack heli.

Yes, currently they are not but if IA/F doesn’t buy them in numbers they never will be of same class. IA/F keeps changing the requirements and GOI doesn’t spend loads r&d and that’s another problem. Indians needs to come out of that attitude “gore ki tatti safes and khusboo wali hai”

 

[SajeevJino]

Why can't India buy MI-28 Night Hunter. MI-28 Night Hunter is now improved with new fire control radar and anti missile defensive system. It is heavily armoured it can carry 16 anti tank missile and unguided rockets. If America put sanction on India this is the best option we have.

go ahead , Buy them, who stopping you , you can buy it and park it In Andaman, to stop any chinese Amphibiuos ops in Andaman Islands

 

[SajeevJino]

Then how about Eurocopter Tiger attack helicopter. This helicopter is good as Apache attack helicopter.

just look at your own LCH , and try to improvise it , What it needs a SPS, and FLIR Ball , a MMW Radar, plus missiles

Stop looking foreign malls

 

[asianobserve]

Boeing to produce or remanufacture up to 600 AH-64E Apaches
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...uce-or-remanufacture-up-to-600-ah-64e-459463/

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Air Force to get Apache attack helicopters next week
The first consignment of the Apache attack helicopters for the Indian Air Force (IAF) will reach Hindon Airbus in Ghaziabad by the end of this month, sources said.

It is likely that there will be three to four helicopters in this consignment. But the deployment of Apache's first squadron in Pathankot will take another month. India has purchased 22 Apache helicopters from the United States.

According to sources, Apache helicopters will arrive at Hindon Airbase in Ghaziabad on an AN 224 transport aircraft on July 27.

They will be prepared at the Hindon Airbase and in the last week of August will be sent to Pathankot for a formal induction into the IAF. The first squadron of the Apaches will be stationed at Pathankot and the first Commanding Officer will be Group Captain M Shaylu.

The IAF has the 125 Helicopter Squadron (125 H SQUADRON), already deployed at Pathankot, which currently flies the Mi-35 helicopters and will now host the country's first Apache squadron. The second squadron will be stationed at Jorhat Airbase of Assam. It is likely that by 2020, the IAF will get all Apache helicopters on order.

The Apache AH-64E helicopter is equipped with a 30-mm machine gun, which can fire up to 1,200 rounds at a time. Apart from this, Apache is also equipped with the anti-tank Hellfire missile, which is believed to be capable of destroying a tank. As an additional weapon, a Hydra Unguided Rocket, capable of perfect execution of any target on land, is also installed. The helicopter can fly at a speed of 150 nautical miles per hour, which helps it to reach the enemy at a tremendous speed in the air.

The IAF currently uses decades-old Russian made Mi-35 and Mi-25 attack helicopters with one squadron stationed at Pathankot and another at Suratgarh in Rajasthan. The IAF also has Rudra attack helicopters developed out of the indigenous Advanced Light Helicopter 'Dhruv'. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is also producing the Light Combat Helicopters for the Air Force in the country.

CURRENT ASSETS
The IAF currently uses the decades-old Russian made Mi-35 and Mi-25 attack helicopters with one squadron stationed at Pathankot and another at Suratgarh in Rajasthan
https://www.dnaindia.com/india/repo...t-apache-attack-helicopters-next-week-2773831

 

[WolfPack86]

In 5 Days, Indian Air Force Welcomes 1st Batch Of Apache Attack Helicopters