AH-64E Apache attack helicopter

[Sanglamorre]

Is Apache a stop gap arrangement until lch arrived? Or isn't lch with helina enough for enemy's tanks or armour formations? Though Apache is a great toy to be possessed.

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Definitely anti-terror ops,not full on military ops.

 

[itsme]

Will our Apaches be firing hellfire or Israeli missile?

 

[Bhadra]

Definitely anti-terror ops,not full on military ops.

Not likely for anti terrorist ops

Will our Apaches be firing hellfire or Israeli missile?

Contracted hellfire.

 

[ezsasa]

Will our Apaches be firing hellfire or Israeli missile?

This is from add-on deal of 6 additional apache for IA...

The deal includes the sale of 180 AGM-114L-3 Hellfire Longbow missiles, 90 AGM-114R-3 Hellfire II missiles, 200 Stinger Block I-92H missiles, next to 30mm cannons and ammunition. The United States will also offer logistical support services and training. The six additional AH-64Es are intended for service in the Indian Army’s Aviation Corps (AAC) and expected to be delivered by 2020.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/06/us-...re-apache-ah-64e-attack-helicopters-to-india/

Can't be sure if these are the final numbers in the first deal..

If the Government of India selects the Boeing-US Army proposal, the Government of India will request a possible sale of 50 T700-GE-701D engines, 12 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars, 12 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers, 812 AGM-114L-3 Hellfire missiles, 542 AGM-114R-3 Hellfire II missiles, 245 Stinger Block I-92H missiles and 23 Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensors.

http://strategic-affairs.com/details.php?task=special&&id=38

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Is Apache a stop gap arrangement until lch arrived? Or isn't lch with helina enough for enemy's tanks or armour formations? Though Apache is a great toy to be possessed.

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Apache is the alpha dog and the pack leader.With its longbow it will be able to guide LCH as well.Due to high cost numbers are limited.But in 16 ATGM configuration it can decimate chinese/pak armour columns.

 

[Bhadra]

Actually, Chinooks are more important than Apache. India already has LCH for combat roles. The payload of LCH may be limited to 2.5 tons at sea level and 1.5tons at 15000 feet, which is about 70% of Apache. But, that should be enough for helicopters and good enough to do the job.

The Chinook is a heavy lifter and can be very useful in carrying bigger payloads. India has no projects to rival Chinook for the time being that can carry as much payload. So, Chinook appears to be more important than Apache

Yes for day to day requirements of providing logistics support to remote posts.
But that does not appear to be the prime purpose as Chinooks are being stationed at Chandigarh.
Lifting up ULH also does not appear to be the primary focus. Lifting ULH for Ladakh may not be required in view of better infrastructure in Ladakh except for SSN.

It would be a good platform to provide emergency logistics support to IBGs.
Using them for Heliborne operations would also be a good idea.
Use by SF teams can be contemplated.

 

[Bhadra]

Apache is the alpha dog and the pack leader.With its longbow it will be able to guide LCH as well.Due to high cost numbers are limited.But in 16 ATGM configuration it can decimate chinese/pak armour columns.

That may not be possible due to source code problems of Data Links.

 

[Wisemarko]

The difference 2500 hellfire missile made to the cost is note worthy...

Ours was 1.1 billion $ deal, wasn’t it?

2500 Hellfire would cost around $300 million
India purchased over 1200 Hellfire as well. Total cost of 22 Apache and 15 Chinook with arms/ spares etc was 3.1 billion.

 

[Wisemarko]

That may not be possible due to source code problems of Data Links.

India can work on getting Link-16 MIDS approval. That would enable multiple platforms including P-8, AH-64E, MQ-9, ground stations and other platforms to share real-time battlefield scenario.

 

[Bhadra]

India can work on getting Link-16 MIDS approval. That would enable multiple platforms including P-8, AH-64E, MQ-9, ground stations and other platforms to share real-time battlefield scenario.

Thanks...
What about India developing their own software and using it on AH-64..
India is now signatory to COMCASA so what is the use of signing that If India has to struggle for datalinks.

 

[binayak95]

That may not be possible due to source code problems of Data Links.

Post COMCASA, Data links, and comms between different units is no longer an issue.
Recently we have seen many P8s, of the USN, of the RAN and Japanese P1s arrive for ASW. These exercises have involved direct transfer of data and tactical awareness amongst IN-USN-RAN-IJN (JMSDF ) units.

 

[Wisemarko]

Thanks...
What about India developing their own software and using it on AH-64..
India is now signatory to COMCASA so what is the use of signing that If India has to struggle for datalinks.

Yes, you can develop your own but full integration with sensors would be difficult if not impossible. With MIDS one can easily obtain much higher level data with existing equipment and CISMOA allows use of MIDS.

 

[neeraj_]

This is from add-on deal of 6 additional apache for IA...

The deal includes the sale of 180 AGM-114L-3 Hellfire Longbow missiles, 90 AGM-114R-3 Hellfire II missiles, 200 Stinger Block I-92H missiles, next to 30mm cannons and ammunition. The United States will also offer logistical support services and training. The six additional AH-64Es are intended for service in the Indian Army’s Aviation Corps (AAC) and expected to be delivered by 2020.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/06/us-...re-apache-ah-64e-attack-helicopters-to-india/

Can't be sure if these are the final numbers in the first deal..

If the Government of India selects the Boeing-US Army proposal, the Government of India will request a possible sale of 50 T700-GE-701D engines, 12 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars, 12 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers, 812 AGM-114L-3 Hellfire missiles, 542 AGM-114R-3 Hellfire II missiles, 245 Stinger Block I-92H missiles and 23 Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensors.

http://strategic-affairs.com/details.php?task=special&&id=38

Total no. Of Apache with India will cross 60+ in due time . In fact original requirement was 33 + 33.

Considering heavy armor that Apache employs wouldn't they be good against naxals too.

Chinooks are FAR more necessary than Apaches IMHO has india already has a close enough substitute (LCH/Rudra) but the Chinook will bring a completely unique capability to India.

IAF could easily use 50-60 Chinooks. Requirements are vast, especially for the east. Second order for Apaches has already been made as you mentioned but really it should have been more Chinooks, there’s a 3 year lead time for these systems and 15 is far too few.

Around 22 will be inducted and as of now they are enough for our requirements . What we need is to operate them efficiently with proper care.

What I find stupid is ordering in small numbers which doesn't give enough negotiating power .

Recently LM offered F 35 A for 80 millions a piece if 100 are ordered. An order for 75 Apache in one go even in smaller batches for budget consideration would have been better.

Apache will fill the crucial gap for Army Strike corps under CSD while LCH will take time to mature. So Apache are needed in numbers too.

 

[Bhadra]

.
Considering heavy armor that Apache employs wouldn't they be good against naxals too.

So far Indian forces have no doctrine and felt no need for use of attack heptrs against Naxals or terrorist anywhere.
When in contact, these platforms can not be used lest they kill their own troops

Around 22 will be inducted and as of now they are enough for our requirements . What we need is to operate them efficiently with proper care.
What I find stupid is ordering in small numbers which doesn't give enough negotiating power .

Theory of economics of scale applies only for OFB and DRDO.

Recently LM offered F 35 A for 80 millions a piece if 100 are ordered. An order for 75 Apache in one go even in smaller batches for budget consideration would have been better.

Money makes the mare go.

Apache will fill the crucial gap for Army Strike corps under CSD while LCH will take time to mature. So Apache are needed in numbers too.

Right. Before strike corps, to be used by IBGs.

But why only strike corps. Pivot corps need those more to destroy advancing armour columns. These are very good defensive A/Tk, Anti Hepters and Anti Personnel platforms.

 

[neeraj_]

So far Indian forces have no doctrine and felt no need for use of attack heptrs against Naxals or terrorist anywhere.
When in contact, these platforms can not be used lest they kill their own troops


Theory of economics of scale applies only for OFB and DRDO.


Money makes the mare go.


Right. Before strike corps, to be used by IBGs.

But why only strike corps. Pivot corps need those more to destroy advancing armour columns. These are very good defensive A/Tk, Anti Hepters and Anti Personnel platforms.

Theory of Economy of scales applies when it comes to production cost and specially at negotiation table.

LM bringing down the price if more F 35 A are ordered is one such e.g. for you.

 

[binayak95]

Theory of Economy of scales applies when it comes to production cost and specially at negotiation table.

LM bringing down the price if more F 35 A are ordered is one such e.g. for you.

LM is willing to provide discounts for F35s because the production run is still in flux, countries are changing order numbers, others are pulling out, USN wants changes to F35C etc etc.

The Apache is the very opposite of flux. The program is truly stable, and the company has an orderbook for years.

Different cases.

 

[bhramos]

Apache Gun C-synchronicity !!!

 

[IndianHawk]

Not likely for anti terrorist ops


Contracted hellfire.

Can anybody compare our helina to hellfire?
Where is helina program is at?

More Apache may come but Altimately it will be lch for Indian army and iaf .

Remember we designed current lch for high altitude as there was no alternative .
But next version of lch can be designed to Mach Apache performance at ground/ sea level.

That is why helina is so important.

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[Bhadra]

So far Indian forces have no doctrine and felt no need for use of attack heptrs against Naxals or terrorist anywhere.
When in contact, these platforms can not be used lest they kill their own troops


Theory of economics of scale applies only for OFB and DRDO.


Money makes the mare go.


Right. Before strike corps, to be used by IBGs.

But why only strike corps. Pivot corps need those more to destroy advancing armour columns. These are very good defensive A/Tk, Anti Hepters and Anti Personnel platforms.

It would be very rare that Pakistan and Indian strike corps are attacking simultaneous within the same pivot corps area.
Even if it happens, the platforms have sufficient flexibility to deal with both.

In that context what becomes important is location of their bases Multiple FARPS can be established.

If the assets are located correctly, say at Pathankot, Suratgarh and Tajpur in East, they can cover all sectors whether for IBGs, Strike Corps or for Pivot Corps. Those can also support IAF SEAD operations.

For the time being the resource is scarce and have to used in most economical and flexible manner,

 

[Chinmoy]

Can anybody compare our helina to hellfire?
Where is helina program is at?

More Apache may come but Altimately it will be lch for Indian army and iaf .

Remember we designed current lch for high altitude as there was no alternative .
But next version of lch can be designed to Mach Apache performance at ground/ sea level.

That is why helina is so important.

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Difference is in guidance. While Hellfire use Laser guidance as primary source with RADAR as secondary, Helina is based around its MmW and IIR seeker as primary source.

But the biggest difference is, HELLFIRE is a matured missile whereas HELINA is a work in progress.