ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[ersakthivel]

Its more like they want to learn from Tejas and in return will provide minor tot details that too in half ..

By having tejas mk-2 under its control with 51 percent share in the JV,SAAB wants to kill the competition to grippen NG,

And design challenges on tejas mk-2 can be solved by applying more scientific man power to the problems,

it is better to have tejas mk-2 fully under indian control,even if a couple of years of delay has to be borne because of this, IAF can always order a couple of extra tejs mk-2 squads,

SAAB's assesment that a fully developed tejas mk-2 is close in capability to rafale confirms the views expressed by many people in this thread

 

[Pulkit]

agreeing to what you have said i wanna add something to it....

Tejas MK2 will suffer the same fate what MK1 is facing ....
It will be no more than the Test bed if something drastic is not done now....
Agreed SAAB might use it for there own benefit but we will also be its benefitory...

points which no one will agree but deep down the know its true:

1) foreign brand IAF will love it...
2)Speedy induction foreign products are always good...
3)Chances of earning kickbacks....

Todays the only fear we have i think i can count you in too is that our ingenious goods will never see the light.....

I know we are not very advanced to compete with the much more developed ones but if we have to compete we neeed to devote our trust and faith on our goods which our defense will never do....
being a hawk here but wat ever i have read and followed gives me this impression only...

Tell me one program which has not been delayed not tech no money but due to defense let it be defence forces or MOD all are same....

@Pulkit
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no. It will be waste of money cause they want 51% share
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SAAB will only help in fitting engine and more challenges lie ahead of DRDO than fitting of engine . It is difficult job to fit more powerful radar, better EW suit and there will also be changes in air-intake cause more powerful engine needs a bigger air intake.
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DRDO official said that work on design phase of tejas mk2 is going well. And new update says it is completed - Defence News - Tejas MK2 design phase complete , second Naval Lca Soon : DRDO
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though SAAB called tejas mk2 as cheap but competitive to MMRCA fighters. SAAB is doing business. And no there won't gonna be a delivery early cause SAAB thinks just new engine have to be fitted but as I told you, there is vast change in design basically in air-intake cause mk1 have very small air-intake

 

[Pulkit]

Question:On what basis are they saying it will be equivalent to Rafale?Any one aware how was that assessment made?
Grippen is available today Tejas MK2 will take till 2020 be get into production then till 2015 it will be for IAF only... If we can just be very optimistic about it... How is it a competition...?
Delay will not help us today... If you believe that it will be equivalent to rafale then on a contrary we must rush to make it happen even under certain set backs....and scrap rafale deal...?
IAF is too reluctant everyone knows that.... they love foreign toys....

if SAAB wants 51% then we can ask for something else negotiate for our betterment...
our defense needs that if not SAAB let it be any in ur mind...
Rafale is delayed by 2 years already... it might get delayed a bit more .... even if deal get done today we will have to wait for 2 years for deliveries.... MIG21 upgraded will not last that long ,,,

Pardon me if by anyway i have said anything that hurts anybody....

By having tejas mk-2 under its control with 51 percent share in the JV,SAAB wants to kill the competition to grippen NG,

And design challenges on tejas mk-2 can be solved by applying more scientific man power to the problems,

it is better to have tejas mk-2 fully under indian control,even if a couple of years of delay has to be borne because of this, IAF can always order a couple of extra tejs mk-2 squads,

SAAB's assesment that a fully developed tejas mk-2 is close in capability to rafale confirms the views expressed by many people in this thread

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

@Pulkit ,
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tejas mk1 is 4.5 gen fighter, you are a troll if you are calling a 4.5 gen fighter as a test bed.
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no. Delivery won't gonna be faster, cause SAAB thinks its just fitting of new engine but their is major changes like better EW suit , better radar , modification of many things, there will be better cockpit. So delivery in 5 years is just a flat talks.
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and there will be none good thing for india if SAAB takes JV .
.
to elaborate more I will give you example of Dhruv, it was developed in 14 years and later 3 version in 6-7 years! How
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the base of technology was already there.. The actual start of tejas project is from 1993 cause 10 gone in infrastructure development. But none of this problem for mk2. Engine is ready, radar in development and 1/8 is working, EW suit in work . Designing is complete so tejaswill be delivered till 2020-22.
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Rudra was accepted by IA and IAF before IOC cause based on Dhruv which is proven chopper so mk2 can be inducted fastly

 

[Pulkit]

Just stating my point of view...
Kindly try and think from the point of view that Rafale is in service 126 by 2022 and Tejas MK2 is ready... Tejas MK2 and are Rafale equivalent..... Tejas MK 2 is MRCA assume....
Then I will ask myseld why I bought Rafale...
Or for this role I already have rafale why buy tejas.... Its no longer LCA...Assumption based on that SAAB article....

and MIGs are gone Fleet depleted way beyond the minimum level.... I would curse myself not to have inducted MK1 fast of speed up MK2 or wasting money on Rafale 20Billions...

Its not about money its about beong battle ready...

This way we will be able to only replenish the MIGS retired and not inc our fleet.....

I am a layman thinking from outside not out of the box....

@Pulkit ,
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tejas mk1 is 4.5 gen fighter, you are a troll if you are calling a 4.5 gen fighter as a test bed.
.
no. Delivery won't gonna be faster, cause SAAB thinks its just fitting of new engine but their is major changes like better EW suit , better radar , modification of many things, there will be better cockpit. So delivery in 5 years is just a flat talks.
.
and there will be none good thing for india if SAAB takes JV .
.
to elaborate more I will give you example of Dhruv, it was developed in 14 years and later 3 version in 6-7 years! How
.
the base of technology was already there.. The actual start of tejas project is from 1993 cause 10 gone in infrastructure development. But none of this problem for mk2. Engine is ready, radar in development and 1/8 is working, EW suit in work . Designing is complete so tejaswill be delivered till 2020-22.
.
Rudra was accepted by IA and IAF before IOC cause based on Dhruv which is proven chopper so mk2 can be inducted fastly

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

the gripen C/D is nothing but equivalent to tejas mk1, actually tejas surpasses gripen in many technologies like cockpit,EW suit, HMDS, fly by wire. Gripen NG is equivalent to tejas mk2 but again tejas mk2 more advanced than gripen NG.
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so better buy tejas than Gripen....... And their are pages to pages in ADA TEJAS (number 4 thread about how tejas mk2 near to rafale)
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Gripen NG is still in development......

 

[Pulkit]

Just one more clarification I didnt say tejas MK2 will be test bed and nor mK1 is what i meant was if the attitude of our forces and MOD doesnt chanes it will nothing more than it in future .... they will not feel shy to call it one when the world will be looking at 5th gen ....

@Pulkit ,
.
tejas mk1 is 4.5 gen fighter, you are a troll if you are calling a 4.5 gen fighter as a test bed.
.
no. Delivery won't gonna be faster, cause SAAB thinks its just fitting of new engine but their is major changes like better EW suit , better radar , modification of many things, there will be better cockpit. So delivery in 5 years is just a flat talks.
.
and there will be none good thing for india if SAAB takes JV .
.
to elaborate more I will give you example of Dhruv, it was developed in 14 years and later 3 version in 6-7 years! How
.
the base of technology was already there.. The actual start of tejas project is from 1993 cause 10 gone in infrastructure development. But none of this problem for mk2. Engine is ready, radar in development and 1/8 is working, EW suit in work . Designing is complete so tejaswill be delivered till 2020-22.
.
Rudra was accepted by IA and IAF before IOC cause based on Dhruv which is proven chopper so mk2 can be inducted fastly

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

@Pulkit
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if the contract is signed today for rafale then first delivery will be in 2017 and merely 10-15 rafale will be till 2020.....
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as above I have already stated that how tejas mk1 better than gripen C/D which participated in MMRCA
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so there is no benefit for a joint venture with SAAB cause they are still designing the NG which have the f414 engine which tejas uses. So we won't gonna get anything but will lose many technologies to swedish.....
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none here saying not to buy rafale but to buy it in 63-84 numbers which will be delivered till 2025 till then first squadron of mk2 will be inducted into IAF

 

[Pulkit]

it is not about Gripen for us ....
Tejas was suposed to get FOC this year pushed to next year if you now the reason let me know plz ...
This will delay MK2 also ....
then there will be other generic issue related to frame , engine or technology anything which will delay it ...


even if we stick to the dates that by some chamatkaar DRDO is able to pull it off by 2020 (Wish it happens) then also it will be in mass production by 2022 only...
then you have in line AMCA and FGFA where will be room for Tejas anymore.....
Sukhoi , Rafale,40+MK1,40+MK2,AMCA due,FGFA Due.... why will IAF go for it....?

the gripen C/D is nothing but equivalent to tejas mk1, actually tejas surpasses gripen in many technologies like cockpit,EW suit, HMDS, fly by wire. Gripen NG is equivalent to tejas mk2 but again tejas mk2 more advanced than gripen NG.
.
so better buy tejas than Gripen....... And their are pages to pages in ADA TEJAS (number 4 thread about how tejas mk2 near to rafale)
.
Gripen NG is still in development......

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

Didn't you read the news clearly? It says SAAB hopeful of gripen will be chosen instead of rafael
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there is no news of delays in foc for tejas. Actually in one interview chandar said than tejas will achieve foc this year.
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heres link : Long-range SAMs, cruise missiles for all platforms: Avinash Chander - The Hindu: Mobile Edition
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you are talking of accepting JV with SAAB but it have one condition and that's to choose Gripen instead of rafael.....

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and can you provide me link about delay in FOC as I have provided link about FOC this year @Pulkit

 

[Pulkit]

On Tarmak FB page it was written that FOC will only be possible by June 2015.... "A senior IAF officer tells Express that #Tejas #FinalOperationalClerance #FOC will happen only by June 2015. https://twitter.com/akxpress" This is what has been mentioned on the page....
will it or will it not make any impact...
Gripen cannot compete with Rafale in present scenario as a link was posted here some where why is raafle choosen ...

Didn't you read the news clearly? It says SAAB hopeful of gripen will be chosen instead of rafael
.
there is no news of delays in foc for tejas. Actually in one interview chandar said than tejas will achieve foc this year.
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heres link : Long-range SAMs, cruise missiles for all platforms: Avinash Chander - The Hindu: Mobile Edition
.
you are talking of accepting JV with SAAB but it have one condition and that's to choose Gripen instead of rafael.....

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and can you provide me link about delay in FOC as I have provided link about FOC this year @Pulkit

 

[power_monger]

Actually if you go through specs of tejas and grippen,you dont see much difference much.Perhaps in Avionics Grippen is better.
but i do think that Tejas mk2 will put grippen behind for sure.

 

[Pulkit]

Therefore in future you and me will surely bet on Tejas MK2 instead of betting on a foreign toy but will IAF do the same....???

Actually if you go through specs of tejas and grippen,you dont see much difference much.Perhaps in Avionics Grippen is better.
but i do think that Tejas mk2 will put grippen behind for sure.

 

[power_monger]

Therefore in future you and me will surely bet on Tejas MK2 instead of betting on a foreign toy but will IAF do the same....???

What IAF will do is not something i can predict or control. I have been seeing the threads related to tejas posted from 2008 to 2014. I see there is a definate change in attitude of people towards extreme pessimism to more hope recently.I don't see any reason why this new optimism will abrupted. FOC is more or less confimed.5-6 months delay does not matter much.ultimatly it will be inducted.

 

[Pulkit]

with u on that Power Monger ,,, we cannot predict we can only hope.... but 6 months delay means something ... loss of confidence and trust and on top of it will give IAF more time to create more new changes desired.........

What IAF will do is not something i can predict or control. I have been seeing the threads related to tejas posted from 2008 to 2014. I see there is a definate change in attitude of people towards extreme pessimism to more hope recently.I don't see any reason why this new optimism will abrupted. FOC is more or less confimed.5-6 months delay does not matter much.ultimatly it will be inducted.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

Actually if you go through specs of tejas and grippen,you dont see much difference much.Perhaps in Avionics Grippen is better.
but i do think that Tejas mk2 will put grippen behind for sure.

tejas is ahead of gripen in many aspects
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gripen is nothing in indian hot condition and was unable to land at leh...
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many avionics of tejas from su30mki so I don't see any possibility of them being inferior to that of gripen
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gripen have fly by wire of f16 and american pilot admitted that f16 flies better with fly by wire of tejas. So tejas have better fly by wire.
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yet price of tejas is half of gripen so number advantage.
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tejas have lesser RCS than gripen and a better radar
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tejas have PESA radar right now but will be modified to better AESA radar . And gripen have PESA radar

 

[pmaitra]

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gripen is nothing in indian hot condition and was unable to land at leh...

I might have missed this bit of news. Can you please post more about this?

 

[Free Karma]

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gripen is nothing in indian hot condition and was unable to land at leh...
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Wikipedia seems to say otherwise..

The Gripen was the last of the aircraft to be evaluated by the IAF. On 22 March, two Gripens left Bangalore, one to Jaisalmer and the other to Leh, Ladakh. At Jaisalmer AFS, a Gripen would undertake the hot weather trials and also a dummy run and bomb drop at the Pokhran Firing Range. The other Gripen headed towards Leh, would perform high altitude tests involving landing, refueling and restarting engines. Prior to the Gripen, 4 out of the 5 aircraft had issues restarting their engines during trials conducted in Leh. The Gripen completed its high altitude tests in Leh and other hot weather tests.

Indian MRCA competition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It says 4/5 *before* the gripen had issues.

 

[Twinblade]

tejas is ahead of gripen in many aspects
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gripen is nothing in indian hot condition and was unable to land at leh...
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many avionics of tejas from su30mki so I don't see any possibility of them being inferior to that of gripen
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gripen have fly by wire of f16 and american pilot admitted that f16 flies better with fly by wire of tejas. So tejas have better fly by wire.
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yet price of tejas is half of gripen so number advantage.
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tejas have lesser RCS than gripen and a better radar
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tejas have PESA radar right now but will be modified to better AESA radar . And gripen have PESA radar

Please, stop posting such half baked posts. You have no idea what you are posting. Please lurk around a bit more before you start posting, it is painfully obvious that you are in no position to answer even the basic queries related to the program.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

I might have missed this bit of news. Can you please post more about this?

here is link - Livefist: Four MMRCA Contenders Fail Leh Trials!
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rafale is selected by IAF and EFT not selected cause cost negotiation so the rest four have most percentage of failure at leh
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@ersakthivel have posted this many times that MMRCA contender's performance are not disclosed...... May be they vulnerable than their specs