ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Blademaster]

Russian are outlier because they don't have a reliable singel engine.
That's why j10 and jf17 have such absymal availablity rates and keep crashing.

Those engines were manufactured in China, not in Russia. Russia granted licensed production to China for the engines during the 90s and 2000s.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Those engines were manufactured in China, not in Russia. Russia granted licensed production to China for the engines during the 90s and 2000s.

Last time I will be telling you this.
Engines are imported from Russia directly and not supplied by PRC.
Russia and PRC have a understanding which states PRC can use reverse engineered (copied) engines for local usage by PRC but these engines can't be exported. In case of exported jets engine have to be procured from Russia.
Pakistanis themself have admitted buying engine from Russia directly and Russia has also accepted the same.
Their were concerns expressed by GoI when Pakistan tried to buy engine and Russia didn't pay heed to our concern.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

No. It is because they need bigger fuel tanks to get more distance and that translate into more weight penalty, hence two engines.

Your makes no sense.
Purpose of frontline fighter aircraft is not to travel long distance cross country (i.e. inside your country.
Frontline fighter aircraft are deployed on forward airbase to engage enemy fighters, escort ground attack aircraft and sometimes bomb enemy. Basically achieve air-superiority or air-denial.
Modern frontline jets tend to have a combat range (500-1500 km) depending on type.
Almost all threats to Russian airspace will origantite at range of 500-1500 kms from NATO.
If you see Russian map all its enemies are the Russian border and they have forward airfield against all these enemies.
One doesn't fly from east of Russia to engage enemies at the west of Russia and vice versa.

These are frontline fighter aircraft and not a strategic bomber that it needs huge range.

Dude, everyone is telling you Russians have twin engine design is due to unreliability of their engine, yet you are stuck on the same point.

 

[Blademaster]

Your makes no sense.
Purpose of frontline fighter aircraft is not to travel long distance cross country (i.e. inside your country.
Frontline fighter aircraft are deployed on forward airbase to engage enemy fighters, escort ground attack aircraft and sometimes bomb enemy. Basically achieve air-superiority or air-denial.
Modern frontline jets tend to have a combat range (500-1500 km) depending on type.
Almost all threats to Russian airspace will origantite at range of 500-1500 kms from NATO.
If you see Russian map all its enemies are the Russian border and they have forward airfield against all these enemies.
One doesn't fly from east of Russia to engage enemies at the west of Russia and vice versa.

These are frontline fighter aircraft and not a strategic bomber that it needs huge range.

Dude, everyone is telling you Russians have twin engine design is due to unreliability of their engine, yet you are stuck on the same point.

MiG-21, MiG-23, and MiG-27s were single engine fighters and USSR produced them by the masses and used extensively. MiG-19s, Su-7s, Su-17s, Su-22s, etc were also single engined fighters and mass produced. That puts your assertion as a bold faced lie that Russian engines were unreliable.

Again, it is the vast distances of Russia that made the RuAF go for twin engined fighters due to the need to carry more fuel and budget cuts that required less planes. Yet RuAF came up with a 5th generation single engine fighter as well.

 

[Blademaster]

Last time I will be telling you this.
Engines are imported from Russia directly and not supplied by PRC.
Russia and PRC have a understanding which states PRC can use reverse engineered (copied) engines for local usage by PRC but these engines can't be exported. In case of exported jets engine have to be procured from Russia.
Pakistanis themself have admitted buying engine from Russia directly and Russia has also accepted the same.
Their were concerns expressed by GoI when Pakistan tried to buy engine and Russia didn't pay heed to our concern.

And you missed the point. Russia got mad at China for breaking the terms and forced Pakistan to come to Russia for the RD-33 engines. But I am telling you those engines were licensed produced by China in the early batches of the J-17 fighters.

 

[karn]

You'll know what this thread needs right now ? Some sause

 

[RocketMan]

You'll know what this thread needs right now ? Some sause

 

[IndianHawk]

MiG-21, MiG-23, and MiG-27s were single engine fighters and USSR produced them by the masses and used extensively. MiG-19s, Su-7s, Su-17s, Su-22s, etc were also single engined fighters and mass produced. That puts your assertion as a bold faced lie that Russian engines were unreliable.

Again, it is the vast distances of Russia that made the RuAF go for twin engined fighters due to the need to carry more fuel and budget cuts that required less planes. Yet RuAF came up with a 5th generation single engine fighter as well.

Look at the crash rate of those fighters.
Besides that was era of turbojets and all engines were trash.

 

[BABAJI321]

CCS approves Tejas mk2 project; Rs6500 crore sanctioned with 2500 crore approved earlier
Clearence for AMCA to come within next few months (TOI)

 

[Blademaster]

CCS approves Tejas mk2 project; Rs6500 crore sanctioned with 2500 crore approved earlier
Clearence for AMCA to come within next few months (TOI)

Hallelujah!!!! What is the hindi version of Hallelujah! or A!!@|-i akb@r?

 

[Dark Sorrow]

And you missed the point. Russia got mad at China for breaking the terms and forced Pakistan to come to Russia for the RD-33 engines. But I am telling you those engines were licensed produced by China in the early batches of the J-17 fighters.

Basically what was happening was to avoid antagonizing US, Pakistan was buying the RD-93 engine from Russia through PRC i.e. PRC buys RD-93 engine from Russia and then resales it to Pakistan as a sub-assembly for JF-17. The whole procurement was invoiced by PRC to dodge sanctions. The sales and after sales services was contracted to PRC which further subcontracted to Russians.

Pakistani are fed-up of this arrangement due to increased cost, poor serviceability and poor accountability and have decided to directly approach Russians directly cutting PRC out of the picture.

Pakistan had bypassed China and directly contacted Russia to purchase the RD-93 engines after being hurt by numerous JF-17 aircraft failures, which were mostly caused by the RD-93 engines’ capacity to be repaired. The Russian engine manufacturer Kilmov has now expressed its willingness to provide RD-93 engines and its accompanying repair systems and maintenance facilities to JF-17 aircraft as a result of several conversations between Islamabad and Moscow.

However, M/s Rosoboronexport, which is permitted to export defence equipment, including RD-93 engines and parts, was sanctioned by the US in 2018, which had a negative impact on the PAF’s ability to source RD-93 engine spares. The two governments and the affected institutions are currently working to resolve the sanctions that prevent Rosoboronexport from conducting transactions in US dollars.

By allowing Pakistan to buy the RD-93 engine directly from it rather than through China as in the past, Russia has improved its defence ties with that country. However, with Russia coming under pressure from the West and seeking help from others, international relations are in flux and geopolitical equations are shifting quickly. In the changing geopolitical system that Pakistan is trying to take advantage of, it is clear that Russia is drawing closer to China.

Ukraine Sanctions On Russia Effectively Put An End To Pakistan's JF-17 Fighter Programme

The Pakistanis launched a counterattack with US F-16 fighters and Chinese JF-17 fighters south of Pir Panjal in Jammu and Kashmir on February 27, 2019

defenceaviationpost.com

 

[Vamsi]

This article says 2500cr were released earlier,but when ?

Cabinet Committee on Security approves Tejas 2.0 mega project | India News - Times of India

India News: The PM Modi-led Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) cleared the project to develop Tejas Mark-2 with prototypes, flight testing and certification at a

t.co

 

[flanker99]

This article says 2500cr were released earlier,but when

Cabinet Committee on Security approves Tejas 2.0 mega project | India News - Times of India

India News: The PM Modi-led Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) cleared the project to develop Tejas Mark-2 with prototypes, flight testing and certification at a

t.co

Must be the funds from early 2010's

 

[Vamsi]

Don't give Knee-jerk reactions after reading that 1st flight in 2027, it is a typo

 

[flanker99]

 

[Blademaster]

So delayed by another year.

 

[flanker99]

So delayed by another year.

Not really few months at most...ss earlier time was rollout by aug 22 and ff after 1 year of rollout now its end 22 or early 23

 

[Vamsi]

Not really few months at most...ss earlier time was rollout by aug 22 and ff after 1 year of rollout now its end 22 or early 23

Yep, 1st flight will definitely be before April 2024

 

[Dark Sorrow]

MiG-21, MiG-23, and MiG-27s were single engine fighters and USSR produced them by the masses and used extensively. MiG-19s, Su-7s, Su-17s, Su-22s, etc were also single engined fighters and mass produced. That puts your assertion as a bold faced lie that Russian engines were unreliable.

IAF has reliability issue with Russian engines.
IN has reliability issue with Russian engines.
CAG has highlighted reliability issue with Russian engines.
Their are countless article on internet highlighted reliability issue with Russian engines. You can Google them.
Crash rate of these mentioned aircraft is very high along with abmissal availability. During that time all engines were bad but as time western engine quality improved astronomically compared to Russian.
Remember MiG-27 crashed in Kargil Conflict due to engine flame-out during attack run. Ground attack aircraft suffering engine flame-out while firing 80 mm rockets or guns is unacceptable.
Buddy stop living in denial.

Again, it is the vast distances of Russia that made the RuAF go for twin engined fighters due to the need to carry more fuel and budget cuts that required less planes. Yet RuAF came up with a 5th generation single engine fighter as well.

Frontline fighter aircraft are not required/expected to travel huge distance hence the word frontline.
Su-75 project is sham. Su-75 primarily designed for export markets and not RuAF. SU-75 came into existence due to failure to Su-57 project. Russians have accepted that no countries are willing to buy their Su57s.
Su-75 is designed to be low cost aircraft for export and is expected to cost US $25–30 million.

On a side-note Su-75 is biggest threat to AMCA.

 

[Blademaster]

IAF has reliability issue with Russian engines.
IN has reliability issue with Russian engines.
CAG has highlighted reliability issue with Russian engines.
Their are countless article on internet highlighted reliability issue with Russian engines. You can Google them.
Crash rate of these mentioned aircraft is very high along with abmissal availability. During that time all engines were bad but as time western engine quality improved astronomically compared to Russian.
Remember MiG-27 crashed in Kargil Conflict due to engine flame-out during attack run. Ground attack aircraft suffering engine flame-out while firing 80 mm rockets or guns is unacceptable.
Buddy stop living in denial.

Frontline fighter aircraft are not required/expected to travel huge distance hence the word frontline.
Su-75 project is sham. Su-75 primarily designed for export markets and not RuAF. SU-75 came into existence due to failure to Su-57 project. Russians have accepted that no countries are willing to buy their Su57s.
Su-75 is designed to be low cost aircraft for export and is expected to cost US $25–30 million.

On a side-note Su-75 is biggest threat to AMCA.

So did the F-16s and other single engine F series fighters. F-16s were often called lawn darts because of issues with their engines. Are you gonna call the American engines unreliable? Heck even the F-35 planes have reliability issues with their engines.

Buddy please stop having such a hard one for American tech that you feel the need to rubbish Russian planes and engines every single chance you get.