ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Dark Sorrow]

Have we purchased any ARM with the Rafale?
Or do we plan to integrate our Rudram series with it?

Rafale mission computer is not based on open architecture design like F-18 SH hence we will have to be dependent on French for Rudram integration. Lets see if we get Rudram as part of India specific enhancements.

 

[dumdumdum]

I literally said original Tejas .

Now I am literally confused. What is "Original Tejas". Simple question was the article details out changes that were made over the years in the ASRs. Your statement " The capabilities asked for on the original Tejas never changed .. " implies that whatever were original requirements specified by IAF originally( that would be in year 1984) never changed. Either the article is wrong or your statement is incorrect.

 

[karn]

Now I am literally confused. What is "Original Tejas". Simple question was the article details out changes that were made over the years in the ASRs. Your statement " The capabilities asked for on the original Tejas never changed .. " implies that whatever were original requirements specified by IAF originally( that would be in year 1984) never changed. Either the article is wrong or your statement is incorrect.

I'm talking about Tejas mk 1 .. aesa only came in mk1a

 

[NutCracker]

I have a theory ..

Do you guys believe that top brass/ CAS / ACM of various NATO countries have together made a whatsapp like group and added our ACM(former/in line) into that.

Our ACM sees pics of foreign ACM posing with Flamboyant Rafales / F22s / F35s and gets constipation every night and next day wakes up to give interview and look down on Indigenous platforms.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[vishnugupt]

If Gyaanis could solve this puzzle who is funding HAL for hanger construction?? Then we can easily calculate whether fund for MWF is released or not??

we might come to know that MWF project is not suffering due to non availability of funds.

 

[_merlin_]

Funding is not released. 1st Mk2 prototype from internal funds. This hanger is also probably from internal funds.

 

[radion]

HAL is already starting their work using their own money so the time lines are not too delayed and development is with the leftover lca funds + funding from goi.

 

[Chinmoy]

Lch flying, luh flying, arjun prowling, both dhanush and atags are booming, but i think you are already aware of it all and just being facetious for argument sake.

LCH---- 15 LSPs already ordered.
LUH---- 12 LSPs already ordered.
Arjun Mk1--- 124 ordered
Arjun Mk1A-- 118 ordered
Dhanush----- 114 ordered
ATAGS----- AON has been created.

Apart from ATAGS, I believe you are aware of others. But intelligence has nothing to do with anything logical for most people here.

 

[Chinmoy]

MRFA is still in tender process. We speculate rafale will win again but we can never be sure !! We are also not sure if this time tender will be awarded it may extend like countless times before.
Mk2 could be flying in a year if funds are there.

My point is, every jets under MRFA is flying and flying for a long time. But Mk2 has yet to make its first flight.

When it comes to Malaysian LCA competition, we do make fun of Hurjet by saying that how Turkish could compare it with Tejas when it has not even came out from drawing board. But when it comes to our end, we are doing exactly the same.

Let Mk2 fly first and then let us capitalize on its performance.

 

[Chinmoy]

Saying since 2018 and not keeping that portion in a press talk about same in 2022 and clarifying afterwards about "commitment" is obviously a damage control. Twitteratis believing in that "commitment" is actually a day dreaming.

Actually Mk2 is the exact form of LCA IAF wanted. But we force feed them Mk1A instead.

Now don't think that I am anyhow against force feeding Mk1A, but the fund which would have gone for Mk2 has been rerouted to Mk1A. So next time they would obviously be sceptic of what is coming out of the stable.

So its not damage control, but just reiterating what the have considered.

 

[Chinmoy]

Did IAF let mk1 fly properly? It took a parikkar to bitch slap these import shills and put it down their throats. Mk1 would have been easily available im 2012 already. The MRFA IAF wants is also not present in current standard, they can wait and buy old standard but want Tejas be in mk2 standard out of the box. Just wait when mk2 prototype comes out, if Modi govt doesn't remain in power these leechers would strike the whole project.

IAF wanted Mk1 with a 105kn engine from day 1. They identified 53 shortcomings on it and asked ADA/HAL to fix it.
But they has been provided with an interim solution with a 85kn engine which was actually a fall back jugaad for the prototypes. Now keep yourself in place of user who would have to fly it.

 

[Hari Sud]

His fear is that Ninda turtle may shove Mk-2 down his throat and cancel MRFA
and Ninda turtle can really do that

The services have to be taken away from London group and Chandigarh group influences. Modi is the right guy to do it. So far for the fifty years, imports were the key to Indian defense but it has to be changed. Another area to be dealt with is testing and testing at slow pace until a defect comes up. All operating hardware with tests upon tests will show some weaknesses. That is not worthy enough cause to reject. The latest example is tests upon test for the local artillery gun,

 

[radion]

IAF wanted Mk1 with a 105kn engine from day 1. They identified 53 shortcomings on it and asked ADA/HAL to fix it.
But they has been provided with an interim solution with a 85kn engine which was actually a fall back jugaad for the prototypes. Now keep yourself in place of user who would have to fly it.

This is where i find some faults.Shouldnt asqr be remodified to meet the then standards?Since afterall it was set so many years ago.btw source for 105 kn engine for mk1? or did you mean 110??

The user actually ordered it despite the shortcomings way back in 2006 expecting the development process to be over quick.

 

[MonaLazy]

IAF wanted Mk1 with a 105kn engine from day 1. They identified 53 shortcomings on it and asked ADA/HAL to fix it.
But they has been provided with an interim solution with a 85kn engine which was actually a fall back jugaad for the prototypes. Now keep yourself in place of user who would have to fly it.

Actually Mk2 is the exact form of LCA IAF wanted. But we force feed them Mk1A instead.

Is there any engine in the world that does 105kN in 4m length today? Did such an engine exist when the ASQR was spelt way back in '85? Then how can customer throw a fit? It is them who constrained it to fit inside mig-21 sized HAS which condemned it to defy area ruling & impacted performance negatively, but now an elongated Mk2 with its tail poking out of those very shelters is the dream spec for IAF? If they are looking for performance exceeding mirage-2000 (2005 MRCA tender) then surely, but in '85 they were only looking for a mig-21 replacement.

 

[Chinmoy]

This is where i find some faults.Shouldnt asqr be remodified to meet the then standards?Since afterall it was set so many years ago.btw source for 105 kn engine for mk1? or did you mean 110??

The user actually ordered it despite the shortcomings way back in 2006 expecting the development process to be over quick.

That's PSQR you are talking of and yes it has been modified a number of times.

Now talking about the whole Tejas saga, DRDO got overambitious with it from start itself. We just want to run even before leaning to stand properly. First mistake was to associate Kaveri program with LCA. World over, a jet in built around an engine, but we wanted to built am engine for a jet.
F-404 was brought in not as a replacement, but as an work around to power Tejas prototype till Kaveri gets ready. Later on when it was found that Kaveri would not be ready in time, F-414 was picked up and it is what Mk2 is going to get power from. But Mk1A was force feed to IAF not to keep the production line alive, but to give developers more time and fund for Mk2.

From government point of view it was ok, but from user point of view, now they have to rework the whole LCA segment. With the incoming fighters, they would have to invest in training also which BTW is not funded as a project. But IAF would have to fund it themself. Means a whole lot of pilots would be trained for Mk1 and Mk1A and another has to be trained for Mk2. Means they would have to rework the whole finance for training itself.

Capital expenditure for IAF is not an issue for them. But running expenditure like this matters a lot for them.

 

[Chinmoy]

Is there any engine in the world that does 105kN in 4m length today? Did such an engine exist when the ASQR was spelt way back in '85? Then how can customer throw a fit? It is them who constrained it to fit inside mig-21 sized HAS which condemned it to defy area ruling & impacted performance negatively, but now an elongated Mk2 with its tail poking out of those very shelters is the dream spec for IAF? If they are looking for performance exceeding mirage-2000 (2005 MRCA tender) then surely, but in '85 they were only looking for a mig-21 replacement.

Actually its developers who brought in the idea of 110kn engine development. During 80s when Tejas was conceptualized to replace Mig-21s, even a turbojet engine would have done the deal. But the idea of developing a turbofan engine was taken up by developers.

 

[radion]

Actually its developers who brought in the idea of 110kn engine development. During 80s when Tejas was conceptualized to replace Mig-21s, even a turbojet engine would have done the deal. But the idea of developing a turbofan engine was taken up by developers.

yea thats what im unable to find;surely they wanted to power the tejas but how many KN or T/W did they want?How much was their goal.

 

[MonaLazy]

yea thats what im unable to find;surely they wanted to power the tejas but how many KN or T/W did they want?How much was their goal.

BRF has a wealth of information in this thread. Some snippets from the same-

Please make note the best engines of the world (operational or close to operational) at the time could only meet the ASQR if granted some concessions. The level of delirium was indeed high.

So they were looking for Th - 52/80KN, SFC - 80/207 kg/kN.h, TWR - 76N/Kg within dimensional constraints of L - 3.5m, D - 0.9m and Wt - 950Kg. This 80kN later changed to 90-95kN as pointed out at the same resource.

 

[DEV1729]

Actually its developers who brought in the idea of 110kn engine development. During 80s when Tejas was conceptualized to replace Mig-21s, even a turbojet engine would have done the deal. But the idea of developing a turbofan engine was taken up by developers.

So they wanted to replace mig 21a 40kn engine plane and replace it with heavy 110kn and call it light combat aircraft