ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[rvjpheonix]

It appears that ac from No-45 sqn will be moved to MOFTU and the LCA MK1 will replace them within this month. I believe about 4 LCAs are ready for delivery within 30 days.

The article is saying two LCA's in march??

 

[Defcon 1]

It appears that ac from No-45 sqn will be moved to MOFTU and the LCA MK1 will replace them within this month. I believe about 4 LCAs are ready for delivery within 30 days.

Sir that is rolling out. Not delivery. Ground tests will be carried out on first four LCA after rolling out.

 

[Decklander]

Sir that is rolling out. Not delivery. Ground tests will be carried out on first four LCA after rolling out.

I believe some LSPs are being prepared for delivery to kick start training to be returned back to HAL after newer ac join IAF. That is what they did with Jaguars, M2K & SU-30M.

 

[makmohan]

Step 2: FOC and Fast Tracking Tejas MK-2 Development | idrw.org

It took almost 3 years and record breaking test flights of 450 for Drdo along with HAL to achieve IOC-2 for Lca Tejas Aircraft; Tejas which achieved Partial IOC-1 in January 10, 2011, will be granted IOC-2 on 20th December of this month, which will also lead to formal induction of Tejas into Indian air force after almost 13 years in testing after its first flight in 2001.

IOC-2 clearance also gives Tejas operational capability to use WVR (Within Visual Range) AAM (Air to Air Missile) like Russian made R-73 in Active combat roles and recent test conducted in Ins Hansa base in Goa over Arabian sea confirms that Tejas now has ability to track and destroy aircrafts Within Visual Range .

IOC-2 also clears Tejas to be used for Ground attack roles and have cleared tests for use of laser-guided 1000-lbs bombs and unguided bombs. DRDO plans to achieve FOC by end of 2014 , FOC certification will include integration and Successful firing of Rafael Derby or the Vympel R-77 for BVR ( Beyond Visual Range ) AAM (Air to Air Missile) Roles and also will require clearance of High Altitude Bombing runs which will be carried out in Leh next .
FOC will also see Demonstration of Inflight Air-to-Air refueling capability by Tejas aircraft , Fixed Refueling probes in past have been successfully integrated and tested on ground and current LSP ( limited Serial Production) Tejas Aircrafts already have required Piping and plumbing systems integrated in the aircraft so adding Refueling Probes will see lesser time consumption .
FOC will also require higher AOA (Angle of Attack) from current 22-24 degrees to 28 degrees but this also has high risk element of Flame out. usually aircrafts are designed to handle much higher AOA then 28 degrees but Tejas Air-intakes which are smaller and have some design flaws might make it High Risk Test for Tejas , But ADA and HAL are planning to integrate a Backup Power Pack to allow engine restart if flames out does occur has a safety mechanism.

HAL has promised to deliver first SP (Serial Production) 1 and 2 by end of March 2014 and another 2 aircrafts by end of 2014, IAF has placed orders for 20 IOC-2 Certified aircrafts and 20 FOC certified aircrafts based on Tejas MK-1. HAL Plans to start work on first Prototype of Tejas MK-2 next year and have it ready for its first flight by end of 2015, GE will be sending first batch of F414-GE-INS6 which will power Tejas MK-2 in early 2014.

Tejas MK-2 will also have a newly laid out cockpit layout with better computing power since it also be housing new mission control computer, Samtel Display Systems(SDS) is also working on touch based Multi-Function Displays (MFD) for Tejas Mk-2 , which will later find its way in AMCA too .

Tejas Mk-2 will also see structural changes in the aircraft which will be noticeable in wider wing span to carry extra weapons load along with extra fuel, aircraft will also have large air intakes to let the high thrust engine generate additional power for the aircraft, engine change for Tejas Mk-2 will result in the rear fuselage being changed too.

Commonality between Tejas Mk-1 and Tejas MK-2 will be digital Fly by Wire (FBW) Flight Control System (FCS) along with some avionics which both aircraft will share, but sources also told us that FBW Software will require some modification in them to support structural changes which Tejas MK-2 will have.

 

[p2prada]

The plan was always to deliver 2 after 6 months of IOC and 2 more after 12 months. Followed by 4 next year, followed by 8 the third year.

So, total of 16 in three years and then 8+8+8 = 40 aircraft in 6 years. This is for LCA Mk1.

 

[ersakthivel]

Broadsword: "There are no serious technology challenges ahead" says PS Subramanyam, Director ADA

We are close to finalizing the engine contract with General Electric, the chosen vendor. By the first quarter of the next year, i.e. March 2014, the preliminary design would have been frozen. Somewhere in 2018, the Mark II will be ready for productionisation. This time there will be no prototypes. We will design for production. We have learned from the mistakes we made in the Tejas.

Besides, there is no ambiguity in the Mark II, as there was in the Mark I. There are not likely to be any changes in the engine, radar, missile, communications. The equipment is known.

There would be no prototypes of Tejas mk-2 and from the first LSP itself it will be ready for production from production.

 

[ersakthivel]

Broadsword: "There are no serious technology challenges ahead" says PS Subramanyam, Director ADA

Q. You've set ambitious timelines for the Tejas Mark II. Are they unrealistic?

We are close to finalizing the engine contract with General Electric, the chosen vendor. By the first quarter of the next year, i.e. March 2014, the preliminary design would have been frozen. Somewhere in 2018, the Mark II will be ready for productionisation. This time there will be no prototypes. We will design for production. We have learned from the mistakes we made in the Tejas.

Besides, there is no ambiguity in the Mark II, as there was in the Mark I. There are not likely to be any changes in the engine, radar, missile, communications. The equipment is known.

So Naval tejas mk-2 is not a air force version which is to be navalized, but is supposed to be designed as carrier fighter from ground up , after learning the lessons from tejas mk-1 naval program.

 

[sayareakd]

Broadsword: "There are no serious technology challenges ahead" says PS Subramanyam, Director ADA



There would be no prototypes of Tejas mk-2 and from the first LSP itself it will be ready for production from production.

I think now is the time when DRDO should start focusing their energies on AMCA, other already have their aircrafts in air and we have late start on this.

 

[ersakthivel]

I think now is the time when DRDO should start focusing their energies on AMCA, other already have their aircrafts in air and we have late start on this.

But no funding has been approved yet from the govt side.

 

[sayareakd]

But no funding has been approved yet from the govt side.

Yeah true, it is high time that IAF, DRDO and GOI all three of the parties come and work together on this important project of national importance.

 

[ersakthivel]

Saab"s Gripen NG wins Brazil jet deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid | idrw.org

4.5 billion dollars for 36 Grippen Ngs?????

The report also mentions additional billions of dollars are gong to flow to sweeden as a long standing spares , and upgrades,

compare it to 30 million dollar price tag IAF has for getting tejas mk-1 ,

tejas mk-2 which is considered closer to grippen NG may not cost more than 40 million dollar a piece and in future mid life upgrade India may even offer a K-10 engine to insulate it from any foreign pressure,

Also witht his deal SAAB is eyeing 26 Sea grippens that will be needed for Brazil's aircraft carrier,

http://idrw.org/?p=31114

Point to note for ADA HALand GTRE on K-10 of what lies ahead if they get their act in time,

So persistent maligning tejas by a few journos in india for decades along with many influential personalities and morons all over the net in many forums ,



for decades completely ignoring all it's modern technical aspects

like fly by wire RSS cranked delta air frame,

all composite skin with least frontal clean config RCS,

full glass cockpit with lethal HMDS enabled high off bore WVR missile combo,


a 650 mm dia radar antenna with 32 dg gain and a radar range of well above 100 Km once FOC is done,


which makes it a true 4.5th gen fighter second to none ,

with a fraction of the price(at 30 to 40 million dollars ) commanded by other competitors,

is not such a frivolous affair in the multi-billion dollar fighter market,

 

[ninja85]

Stop wasteful military deals - The New Indian Express

French and Israeli pilots who have unofficially flown the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) have gone gaga over its flying attributes.

mean what ???

 

[ersakthivel]

mean what ???

They might have shared notes on flight specs at different flight envelope, it could have been construed as being flown in simulator by the author,

 

[ninja85]

Better Late Than Never?
Tejas continues to fall behind revised schedules, causing inconvenience to the IAF and the Navy

By Atul Chandra

FORCE May 2013

The long delayed Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) achieved a milestone in March, when the last Limited Series Production aircraft (LSP-8) took to the air. The maiden flight of LSP-8 was of particular significance as it is supposed to be in almost the exact configuration as that of Series Production (SP) Tejas fighters. LSP-8 aircraft along with LSP-7 will now be used by the Indian Air Force for User Evaluation Trials (UET).

Surprisingly, LSP aircraft will remain as only a test aircraft with the Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) for the SP aircraft (now just a year away) still seeing changes. LSP-8 is the 13 Tejas aircraft to take to the air in 12 years! On another note, the Mig-21 which the Tejas was designed to replace celebrated 50 years of service in the IAF last month!

Defence minister A.K. Antony has already expressed his displeasure with delays in the Tejas programme and stating that the date for Final Operational Clearance (FOC) must not be extended beyond 2014. Air Chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne has already said that with the maximum drawdown of IAF combat squadrons taking place in the 12th plan (2012-2017), it was of critical importance that two squadrons of Tejas be inducted (to maintain force levels at 34 squadrons). At present six squadrons of the LCA are scheduled to be inducted by the end of the 13th plan. The first four aircraft for the IAF were to have been ready by end 2011 and will now happen only by next year.

Orders for 20 Tejas fighters in Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) configuration and another of 20 in FOC configuration have been placed by the IAF. IOC-2 would be attained by next month (according to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited chief R.K. Tyagi). It is also looking to ramp up production capabilities from eight to 16 aircraft per year. IOC-1 was granted in January 2011, with a reluctant IAF agreeing to a number of concessions at the time. Wake Penetration Tests (verification of the robustness of Air Data System, Air Data Transducers and FCS against wake of another aircraft), all weather clearance which required lightening tests all had to be completed among many other parameters.

IOC configured LCA's will have capability to carry the R-73 Close Combat Missile (CCM) integrated with Elbit Systems DASH-3 Helmet Mounted Display Sight (HMDS). It will also be able to carry a LITENING target designator pod enabling Precision Guided Munitions (PGM) to be dropped. In FOC configuration, Tejas will have the Israeli, Rafael Derby Beyond Visual Range Air to Air Missile (BVRAAM) and the Rafael Python 5 Infra Red (IR) Close Combat Missile (CCM) as its primary air-to-air armament. Both missiles will also be carried on the Tejas Navy (Indian Navy already uses the Derby on Sea Harrier LUSH fighters). Tejas will also be fitted with the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) developed Astra BVRAAM. DRDO has declared 2013 as 'Astra Year' and will move on to the all important flight trials. Reports suggest that at least eight flight tests will be conducted this year and IAF user trials are slated for next year. The Astra will offer Off-Bore-Sight launch capability of up to 45 degrees.

The maximum delay will be faced by the Indian Navy (IN), adding insult to its injury. It was the IN which committed funds (approximately Rs 400 crore for the development phase) in 2003 for the navy variant at a time when the IAF had not invested even a single rupee on the programme for its Mig-21 replacement! The IN wanted the LCA Navy to obtain IOC by 2014, this is nowhere in sight and NP-2 is still to fly. Once orders are placed for the Navy LSP aircraft it will take HAL a lead time of three years to begin production. From the Mk-1 version to the MK-2 for the LCA Navy it is expected to take a decade. Developmental testing for the Mk-1 variant alone is expected to take at least till 2018 (for FOC). Another concern is the small number of aircraft available for test flying, while the IAF has 13 (including LSP versions), the Navy will have only two prototypes available. The IN has a stated goal of being a 'Builders Navy' and remains the most committed among the three Services to indigenisation, reflected in their backing and commitment to the LCA Navy (in spite of slippages). However, the solution for the IN if insurmountable delays crop up would be to go in for an imported and very expensive option, the Rafale!

Maintaining timelines has not been a strong point of the LCA programme

Status​

Scheduled​

Realistic​

Induction of Tejas Series Production Aircraft​

July 2011​

2014​

Completion of Full Scale Engineering
Development (FSED) Phase-II of LCA​

December 2008​

2015​

FOC for Tejas Mk-1 Variant​

2012​

2015​

FOC for Tejas trainer variant​

2011​

2016​

Delivery of all 40 Tejas Mk-1 aircraft to IAF​

2015​

2020​

Tejas Mk-2 first flight​

December 2014​

2017​

Tejas Mk-2 Series Production​

June 2016​

2021-2022​

LCA Mk-1 Navy IOC​

2014​

2016​

LCA Mk-2 Navy IOC​

NA​

2021​

aray bhai aisi hai toh phir AMCA 2120 mein taiyaar joga.

 

[mehrotraprince]

aray bhai aisi hai toh phir AMCA 2120 mein taiyaar joga.

Why are you sharing such flawed report?

Delivery of all 40 Tejas Mk-1 aircraft to IAF 2015 (Schedule) 2020 (Realistic)

now let me put actual delivery date(worst case): 4(2014) + 6(2015) + 8(2016) + 10(2017) + 12(2018) = 40 so from where this 2020 figure came??

Tejas Mk-2 first flight Dec 2014 (Schedule) 2017 (Realistic)

Again wrong, Realistic date will be either Dec 2015 or early 2016

Like this I can debunk every claim.

One very important point to note is that LCA for Airforce is more important than LCA for Navy, so even it LCA for Navy gets delayed by 1 or 2 years then also its not going to effect much.

 

[ersakthivel]

aray bhai aisi hai toh phir AMCA 2120 mein taiyaar joga.

What exactly is your business here?

Posting an old stupid article with astrological predictions format that has no relevance now,

Haven't you seen all the present genuine news article after IOC?

Why the hell are you digging up old shit after all the troubles were sorted out and now tejas mk-1 is battle ready,

 

[ninja85]

What exactly is your business here?

Posting an old stupid article with astrological predictions format that has no relevance now,

Haven't you seen all the present genuine news article after IOC?

Why the hell are you digging up old shit after all the troubles were sorted out and now tejas mk-1 is battle ready,

you never knew....

BTW read carefully article not posted by me, i was commenting on it sarcastically.

 

[SajeevJino]

thats cool man

no harm in giving my opinion,is it??

i was just trying to contribute

Don't take anything serious ..It's just internet

 

[Twinblade]

is that a serious question??

pardon me but carrying more missiles is a plus on anything!!

No.

i know u will say that tejas is an interceptor and so there is really no need but i would still vouch for more hard points especially as the tejas needs drop tanks for longer missions and hard points are reduced even further.

and with ge-414 we have enough power to carry more missiles

What kind of MTOW do you expect off a light fighter ? F-16 has 11 hard points because it can fly off with full fuel with each of its hard point loaded to its limits. Tejas can't do that today (the difference between MTOW and clean take off weight is 3.5 to 3.8 tons while hard points are rated in excess of 5 tons combined) and Tejas mk2 should better the MTOW with another couple of tons. It would be easier to strengthen three heavy harpoints 1,2 and 7 or the medium hard points 3 and 4 to carry that few hundred kilos of extra payload. Gripen C and Gripen NG too have more hard point capacity than their MTOW would permit when fully fueled up.

 

[Twinblade]

yes strengthening the hard points is an option too

but 7 is definitely pretty less if strengthening is not done and each point carries the same load as mk1

As I said Mk-1 already has plenty of excess hard point capacity, Multiple racks are always an option.

all these things aside the most important thing is sensor fusion and aesa,,,,rest all are passable.

sensor fusion may look easy but as earlier pointed out it really isn't as extensive software needs to be developed along with very capable mdpu which we cannot at this point of time.

Incorrect, sensor fusion is projected as a mythical ability out of bounds for Indian designers. All Indian helicopters have been started to be fit with a multi sensor warning suite which fuses RWW, LWS and MAWS data onto a single display, the exception being Rudra which will feature SAAB IDAS considering the availability, maturity and existing integration with the platform. The Tejas Mk-1 itself is expected to carry a similar system. The EMB-145 AEWC&S goes one step ahead carries a home grown sensor fusion suite. This suite fuses sensor data from primary radar, IFF and ESM suite onboard to provide a complete picture.

heck even russians can't and they are ordering the chips(elbrus) from tsmc(taiwan semi conductor corporation) so obviously we cannot as we have no commercial chip making plants on india.

Most Indian systems are designed around COTS components. As unfortunate as it may be, it saves us time and money and things are going to remain the same for the time to come.