ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[vijay jagannathan]

I don't mean start new argument with you but I have been reading your posts and I seriously think you are not happy being Indian. You find faults and belittle the LCA program left n right, you are just not happy with what we have achieved and won't let it go? Criticizing is one way to look for making improvements but constant berating about the program says very less of you. When or if you ever did a science project in school/college for the first time was it of top quality to compete world wide?

You are sitting in the US and questioning my national pride? How much more pseudo can you get? Talk of double standards. You are very proud of IAF having to unwillingly accept Mark 1 planes which even with FOC (said to be about 2 years away in ADA language which means a minimum 3 years away) will not fit the air staff requirements set out by IAF? So despite this gaping shortcoming you want me to jump up in joy and clap my hands? Ok i am doing that. happy?Get real man.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

Days after initial operational clearance, radar shock for India's LCA fighter

Barely three days after India's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) "Tejus" received its "release to service certificate", which means a go-ahead for air force induction, an international report claimed that Israel has barred the export of the Airborne Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) version of the EL/M-2052 radar presumably under U.S. pressure.



Production versions of the LCA MKI (the current version) are to be equipped with the mechanically scanned EL/M-2052 MMR radar. The more powerful and advanced LCA MKII version is expected to receive the EL/M-2052 AESA radar. The radar is manufactured by the Israeli company Elta.

With India's LCA program as the key customer for the radar, in fact, the test prototypes of the LCA have been fitted with the EL/M-2052 MMR radar since 2008, the Israeli ban could not have been aimed at any other export possibility. The only other likely export is Singapore which wants to retrofit its older F-16s with this radar. The international report, first appearing in Flightglobal, has said that the ban applied to "a number of countries", without specifying what countries were included in the ban.

P.S. Subramaniam, Programme Director, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the defence laboratory that is designing the LCA has been quoted in a 2008 Indian newspaper report that Elta EL/M-2052 MMR will be an interim option since India is developing an indigenous MMR radar for the LCA. Subsequent weapons tests of the LCA have been conducted with the EL/M-2052 radar on board.

India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has a co-development agreement with Elta, to develop an Indian version of the EL/M-2052 MMR. The fire-control radar is said to be deployed in the demonstration flights of the fully developed and armed prototypes of the LCA which have been going on from mid-2010 onwards.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=14180

Great!!! another excuse for ADA !!!! There is a complete silence on indian AESA. They will probably turn around and say we need another 10 years as we haven't developed one before. I cannot believe India still sucks up to USA with US completely blocking our way through back door politics.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

Mr.Vijay u r absolutely right by saying all these. Support basically means keeping the indigenous efforts moving on while top defence officials of armed forces can nicely wack off our money under different phoren purchase. IS'NT IT? Now as u seem to be an authority of aerodynamics, have the big responsibility on your shoulder to enlighten us on how come tejas mk I is a 3++ jet and prove that u r not trolling here. Well if u want the DFI members to take it on the face value then i will sadly inform u that its no longer possible my dear. Especially after checking the way indian defence forces are functioning these days. Endless poor purchases like helicopter,cruise missile , SAM,horrible initial batches of T-90,crippled night vision equipments, terrible russian jet engines , dud grenades , fizzled shells & bombs , malfunctioning radar ,AJT have given our armed forces such an immaculate reputation of being penny wise pound foolish that the less we talk about their verbal credibility the better it is. Golf cart scam , land scam , adarsh scam ( case of MBT ARJUN is no less than a scam if not the biggest of all )like beautiful acts together with NO 1 IDIOT LIKE COMMENT SUCH AS " MISSING A FILE IS NO BIG DEAL" given them they status to sit on the laps of poiticians of india. So we are not fools Mr vijay to take anything that pops out from thy holy hole as
a gospel. Now coming back to technicals let me ask u a simple thing. What are the minimum requirements that has to be fulfilled before a fighter jet could be referred to be of 4th gen? and how many types of indian fighters currently fulfill those criterion in their present form ( without up gradation ? } except Su 30mki? If u can find the answer by yrself then a respite for us all, otherwise i will have to remind u that NONE of them have a standard BVR capability which is an essential component of 4th gen air battle. Currently many of them are undergoing upgradation with different accessories of our poor filthy tejas. Bloody no sense of gratitude,just like the spokes persons of rotten politicians. The actual thing is the fact that LCA lacks in some of the attributes of 3rd gen fighter such as WBR characteristics which are completely aerodynamic in nature while in 4th gen category it beats almost anything that India currently has barring sukhoies.

By the way in both 65 & 71 pakistan war IAF had aerodynamically superior platforms that too in much bigger nos then how the hell PAF received international kudos for a relatively MORE EFFICIENT PERFORMANCE? High time that we talk less, take no bribe and learn how to fight with what ever we can produce indigenously. I completely agree to an infamous statement of an ex DRDO chief who said "indian forces should accept indigenous products even iff its 10% less efficient compared to what is readily available in the foreign market because all gr8 powers do the same to gain perfection in long term.

Sub par immature platforms in IAF and corruption in defence deals. What can I say ? pick your choice: an unfortunate co-incidence OR a deadly combination. I will make it very easy for you. show me one article in the last 6 months which does not talk of major shortcomings in Tejas.

 

[smartindian]

Please Don't jump out of nowhere and keep asking for proof. Follow all the posts carefully where the deficiencies of mark 1 has been debated. If you are not aware that Mark 1 does not fulfill and falls short of airs taff requirements in all major areas you shouldn't be asking any questions at all. Oh so you will decide on behalf of IAF that it is good enough to defend the country?

according to you mig-21 is better than lca(which lca is replacing ) , then i cant argue with you , i am following this thread from the beginning and i dont need your lecture regarding this . if air force was so un happy (according to you) then why did they excepted in the first place . yes it is not the best plane in the world , but it can do the job very well . when IAF doesn'thave any problem then what is yours .

 

[vijay jagannathan]

according to you mig-21 is better than lca(which lca is replacing ) , then i cant argue with you , i am following this thread from the beginning and i dont need your lecture regarding this . if air force was so un happy (according to you) then why did they excepted in the first place . yes it is not the best plane in the world , but it can do the job very well . when IAF doesn'thave any problem then what is yours .

I never said Mig 21 is better than LCA. I have said in my previous posts almost 12 months ago that Mark 1 will be a refined version of Mig 21.

IAF doesn't have any problem with LCA? Are you trying to reinvent the wheel? Take a break have a kit kat. You have lost the plot.

 

[black eagle]

when IAF doesn'thave any problem then what is yours .

That's news to me.....

 

[p2prada]

@all the hoopla about Nitesh's post

It is just a feel good post, nothing else. There are no real facts. If you want to delude yourself thinking indigenous at the cost of progress is the way to go then go right ahead. Sadly for you guys, the IAF planners do not think that way and neither does any military in the world.

Right from comparing the Su-30k to Su-30MKI to the LCAs firing R-60s and now R-73s. There is a difference between taking 10 years to make the deadliest Air Superiority Fighter in existence (as of 2004) and taking 20 years to make a low cost point defence aircraft that does not fit requirements.

Facts speak for themselves. You just have to identify those facts from delusion.

 

[blade]

Sub par immature platforms in IAF and corruption in defence deals. What can I say ? pick your choice: an unfortunate co-incidence OR a deadly combination. I will make it very easy for you. show me one article in the last 6 months which does not talk of major shortcomings in Tejas.

I am sure u have got the essence of my writing but as you have decided to move ahead with a last ditch attempt to vindicate yourself i gotta make things explicit. Well when u r talking about articles i can remember only ONE of them which was written by a learned man Mr. pradyut das while others were teen age fantasies of a bunch of idle journalists who can hardly differentiate between newton's first law and a rotten carrot went on to criticize a highly complex project involving almost every law of classical physics & engineering. Shall I show u at least two dozens of articles published by our genius reporters which made defense journalism to like a fanboy's job? Horribly wrong information were again & again printed by irresponsible news paper agencies. Now about pradyut das...well as far as i know he was no way ever linked himself to any serious fighter jet project. His article was full of contradictions which was again taking open source data as some ORACLE. He challenged a few concepts & and technologies of ADA & DRDO which seem to be most relevant with the top jet manufacturer through out the world.

Now about sub par immature as u have described LCA Tejas with out a single data or reasoning given shown your exact motive of being here. Mr.Vijay typing freely without substance in it makes you a TROLL which may provoke some of us to report against you. We dont consider your easy going premises such as media report or IAF spokes persons blabbering while we all know how much accolades tejas received from each and every fighter pitols who were lucky to fly it. Story is panning out in the same direction as MBT ARJUN. Only a foreign evaluation of tejas from a capable country which dose not have an interest in MRCA will be taken seriously untill then all the toll feeding comments of IAF will be taken with a truck full of salt.
Provide proper argument & information before u call Tejas sub par immature otherwise I WILL REPORT AGAINST YOU.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

If you want to delude yourself thinking indigenous at the cost of progress is the way to go then go right ahead. Sadly for you guys, the IAF planners do not think that way and neither does any military in the world.

You just have to identify those facts from delusion.

God have mercy on our souls.

 

[thecoolone]

I am sorry that you may have had done enough projects in science but you had a very poor English teacher.

Well, I at least had an english teacher. You seem have no education or respect for anyone.

Show me one post where I have said the program's R and D must not continue on the side lines?

Why shld I show you that go read your previous posts.

If you don't want IAF to say this you will decide on its behalf?

You sir with your constant harping about mark 2, seem to be smarter than everyone here and the IAF why don't offer valuable advice directly.

Since you are a science freak why 5 years. Even 25 will make you happy I guess.

Ask your friends if they are happy with the way you turned out or they have wait for mark 2 (better version).

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I never said Mig 21 is better than LCA. I have said in my previous posts almost 12 months ago that Mark 1 will be a refined version of Mig 21.

IAF doesn't have any problem with LCA? Are you trying to reinvent the wheel? Take a break have a kit kat. You have lost the plot.

Vijay, Look at it this way. When TATA started makeing cars everyone said that they where poor quality,cheap local makes and they also broke down more often than one desired, it is also true that in reality it can not be compared with other car makers from Europe or Japan. Most people virtually wrote off the TATA vehicles and they where right in doing so because our quality was horrible and could never be compared to the best of Europe or Japan. Yet TATA being a true business man that he is kept investing and expanding instead of selling out with disappointment! The Engines on the TATA Safari and Serra where awful and the first Indicas where breaking down all along the road side, if Ratan thought that it was over and we had to sell out to GM or Ford today we wont have one of the largest car makers in the world who bought out Jaguar and Land Rover and today their quality has improved even though the nano catches fire occasionally it is still an marvel of material management and quality achievement for the that price.

So think like an businessman and dont think ************************************************************************************** You want perfection when we have just begun, you want us to run the 100meter hurdles when we have just stood up from crawling like babies, i say wait a bit and i am sure we can buy Lockheed Martin or Boeing by 2035.

 

[thecoolone]

You are sitting in the US and questioning my national pride? How much more pseudo can you get? Talk of double standards.

Today what I am and tomorrow I will be is because of India. No matter where I sit or stand I will ALWAYS support India's progress. To begin with, LCA puts India among the very few nations in the world that have achieved the capability to design and make its own fighter jet. I'm aware that even though the LCA program was delayed, its a modest beginning. I also acknowledge a lot more has to be scaled in the future. But this a moment when you appreciate the team for this feet, who made it possible beating all odds.
Is it ironic that even though i'm away from the soil I'm awfully proud of this achievement than you are or will be?

Its only hypocritic people like you, who don't appreciate country's achievement but surely find enough time and energy to find faults in success. You will always see "Glass is half empty".

You are very proud of IAF having to unwillingly accept Mark 1 planes which even with FOC (said to be about 2 years away in ADA language which means a minimum 3 years away) will not fit the air staff requirements set out by IAF?

IAF is definitely more happy than you are. LCA may have many weaknesses but IAF have accepted it for its strength (for what it is and capable of becoming).

 

[thecoolone]

LCA will grace the air show

BANGALORE: The Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) will flaunt itself at Aero India 2011 in what will be its first air show after Initial Operational Clearance. While the aircraft has some way to go before induction and deployment, the symbolizm inherent in showcasing India's combat aircraft design capabilities to world military powers can't be missed.

Undoubtedly, until the LCA is formally inducted and stays with the air force for a good amount of time, people won't want to concede that India has a fighter aircraft of its own. But then the air show is precisely the kind of platform to showcase that India is on its way to have an inducted LCA.

Aero scientists from DRDO, NAL and HAL say that the air show is an opportunity to demonstrate that India is at least ready with an initial version of its own fighter aircraft. "People should know that India can fly an aircraft that is its own. The fact that LCA has done 1,500 test flights is proof that we can actually fly our own aircraft. The air show is a platform where we bring the proof of our capability to the public domain," said a DRDO scientist.

Scientists say awareness should increase among people that India, despite being a developing country, is still a technologically-capable one. "We have a long way to go, but let us feel good about what we have achieved. At least no one can accuse India of not being able to fly an aircraft. The next step is to ensure its endurance, durability, safety and consistency __ that it's a product that all can trust. Encouragement here will help a great deal. Air show gives people a chance to appreciate capabilities of scientists and India aerospace skills as a whole," the senior scientist observed.

The agencies managing LCA are in discussion over ways in which the aircraft can be showcased. Formation flight involving four aircrafts, fly-past, flight in pairs are some possibilities. Flights may be planned thrice a day __ morning, noon and evening for 20 to 30 minute duration each. Both the fighter and trainer versions will be seen at the air show.

The LCA will be seen flying with F-16, F-18, Su30, Gripen, MiG-35, hopefully Rafael of France and Eurofighter Typhoon.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ll-grace-the-air-show/articleshow/7272087.cms

 

[Godless-Kafir]

What i think is we should have an berated version with the Kaveri engine just to sell to the African or poorer countries in competition with China.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

I am sure u have got the essence of my writing but as you have decided to move ahead with a last ditch attempt to vindicate yourself i gotta make things explicit. Well when u r talking about articles i can remember only ONE of them which was written by a learned man Mr. pradyut das while others were teen age fantasies of a bunch of idle journalists who can hardly differentiate between newton's first law and a rotten carrot went on to criticize a highly complex project involving almost every law of classical physics & engineering. Shall I show u at least two dozens of articles published by our genius reporters which made defense journalism to like a fanboy's job? Horribly wrong information were again & again printed by irresponsible news paper agencies. Now about pradyut das...well as far as i know he was no way ever linked himself to any serious fighter jet project. His article was full of contradictions which was again taking open source data as some ORACLE. He challenged a few concepts & and technologies of ADA & DRDO which seem to be most relevant with the top jet manufacturer through out the world.

Now about sub par immature as u have described LCA Tejas with out a single data or reasoning given shown your exact motive of being here. Mr.Vijay typing freely without substance in it makes you a TROLL which may provoke some of us to report against you. We dont consider your easy going premises such as media report or IAF spokes persons blabbering while we all know how much accolades tejas received from each and every fighter pitols who were lucky to fly it. Story is panning out in the same direction as MBT ARJUN. Only a foreign evaluation of tejas from a capable country which dose not have an interest in MRCA will be taken seriously untill then all the toll feeding comments of IAF will be taken with a truck full of salt.
Provide proper argument & information before u call Tejas sub par immature otherwise I WILL REPORT AGAINST YOU.

I hope the moderator has taken note of this and I expect some action against this. I am restrained.

 

[thecoolone]

'It was overwhelming to take Tejas to the skies'
"It was a fantastic feeling, to be flying something Indian. Though there was tremendous pressure on me to get the first 'Made in India' fighter jet airborne, it was a moment of stupendous success and overwhelming relief when I successfully completed the 18-minute flight over Bengaluru," recalls retired Indian Air Force Group Captain Rajiv Kothiyal.
Almost exactly a decade ago, he took Tejas, our very own indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) to the skies for the first time on January 4th, 2001. It was also a sigh of relief from those on the ground – engineers, designers and scientists, who had just fulfilled a dream of having our own fighter jet, when the first prototype of LCA which took off from HAL Airport, landed successfully.
"However it was not a smooth flight and there were some tense moments, especially when we lost the telemetric link for a short duration. Since it was the first flight, we'd kept the landing gear out," Mr Rajiv told Deccan Chronicle.
Ten years later, Mr Kothiyal, who is now working as a commercial pilot with Kingfisher Airlines, was invited to witness the 'initial operational clearance' function for the LCA on Monday. To go back in time, in 1961, after Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) rolled out Marut, a bomber aircraft, there still wasn't any jet built in India. The LCA was the second such product and the first among the supersonic stream of warplanes. So taking it to the sky was a big task for any test pilot. Recalls Kothiyal, "We were cautious since it was LCA's first flight. We didn't know exactly how the computer systems and other mechanisms would actually work when we were airborne. We conducted several pre-tests, such as speeding on the runway and braking. On December 31st 2000, I increased the speed of the aircraft and raised the nose and brought the aircraft in normal speed. This gave us tremendous confidence about the flight being airborne. The next few days we were waiting for the best weather conditions to take LCA into the skies."
Finally when the day arrived, it wasn't easy for him to cope up with the excitement and anticipation from all quarters, including his wife and children. "My wife was tense and she said she did not want to be sitting at home worrying about the flight, instead she went to school as usual to teach. When I landed, someone from airport telephoned the school to tell her the news," he says.
He has other great memories. "There were also some proud moments while flying the LCA during the 2001 Aero India show at Yelahanka and the fly past by LCA was the most acclaimed part of that edition of the air show," he adds.
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/bengaluru/'it-was-overwhelming-take-tejas-skies'-083

 

[blade]

@all the hoopla about Nitesh's post

It is just a feel good post, nothing else. There are no real facts. If you want to delude yourself thinking indigenous at the cost of progress is the way to go then go right ahead. Sadly for you guys, the IAF planners do not think that way and neither does any military in the world.

Right from comparing the Su-30k to Su-30MKI to the LCAs firing R-60s and now R-73s. There is a difference between taking 10 years to make the deadliest Air Superiority Fighter in existence (as of 2004) and taking 20 years to make a low cost point defence aircraft that does not fit requirements.

Facts speak for themselves. You just have to identify those facts from delusion.

1. Its not indigenous at the cost of progress it is "indigenous" the only way to progress.
2. sadly for you almost every big power through out the world thinks that way only...otherwise china would'nt have gone for an inferior copy of su 30's e.g J 11 while had chance of importing off the shelve.
3. I dont think the DFI folks are so immatured to compare Tejas with sukhoies.
4. can you kindly enlighten us about the deveopement time for SU 30 mki from the drawing board? Do you think gripen is just a cheap point defense fighter? If your answer is YES then i am sorry to tell u that you are wrong & if your answer is NO then let me assure you that in coming years we will have a tejas which can scare a gripen NG which even in its most evolved shape carries more than 30% of foreign components.
5. LCA dose not fulfill the IAF requirements? Hmmm very bad indeed. As far as i know through out the development of tejas, IAF changed its requirements for about a dozen times so exactly which of them is not fulfilled? Even i heard that on the day of operational clearance Mr. Air chief expressed his desire to find LCA in air superiority role.Again a few days back barbora said Tejas is likely to replace both mig 21 & 27 means he wants a multirole jet. JOKERS
6. Recently in the new "defence production policy" a very interesting guidelines has been issued. It goes like this
"Service Headquarters (SHQs), while laying down the qualitative requirements for defence equipment/ weapon systems/ platforms to be developed/ integrated/ made, will exercise due diligence at all times to keep in view feasibility and practicability of the QRs." ---- It implies armed forces did'nt exercise due diligence while laying down requirements so far..
7. Guys dont be surprised if Tejas meets with a couple of accidents in the hands of IAF by 2012 before complete clearance can be achieved .
8. You are so much right in saying that facts speak for themselves.So lets wait untill Tejas not only speaks rather roars in the sky.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

Vijay, Look at it this way. When TATA started makeing cars everyone said that they where poor quality,cheap local makes and they also broke down more often than one desired, it is also true that in reality it can not be compared with other car makers from Europe or Japan. Most people virtually wrote off the TATA vehicles and they where right in doing so because our quality was horrible and could never be compared to the best of Europe or Japan. Yet TATA being a true business man that he is kept investing and expanding instead of selling out with disappointment! The Engines on the TATA Safari and Serra where awful and the first Indicas where breaking down all along the road side, if Ratan thought that it was over and we had to sell out to GM or Ford today we wont have one of the largest car makers in the world who bought out Jaguar and Land Rover and today their quality has improved even though the nano catches fire occasionally it is still an marvel of material management and quality achievement for the that price.

So think like an businessman and dont think like an high school girl who got 97% and committed suicide for not getting 100%. Your attitude is exactly the same. You want perfection when we have just begun, you want us to run the 100meter hurdles when we have just stood up from crawling like babies, i say wait a bit and i am sure we can buy Lockheed Martin or Boeing by 2035.

You don't want pilots to loose lives,you want to win potential wars,you want to to blow the enemy out of the skies,you want to touch the sky with glory but you want to induct Mark 1 which is still short of air staff requirements even with FOC. Ok go ahead. But kindly let me disagree.

Even in MRCA IAF wants proven platforms not promised platforms. If you agree with this line you will some how disagree with a lighter platform?You will clap and jump up and down if the choosen country in MRCA takes the money and throws up nasty surprises? Are you even clear what I am asking for? I am asking for the Mark 2 which is what the IAF wants. Why are guys tearing your hair out. Yoou don't agree for heaven's sake look the other way. Time will tell who is right. I will maintain my line which is if the Mark 2 isn't developed in the next 12 months stop wasting Tax payers money. If GOI and ADA wants they can get it done. But I will tell you one more thing. Expect more problems from US. ADA/DRDO made the wrong choice in selecting GE. The EJ would have helped get up the mark 2 much much much faster.

Godless Kafir keep you wise school girl comments for your kids. Don't cross the line. The moderator is watching

 

[Godless-Kafir]

You don't want pilots to loose lives,you want to win potential wars,you want to to blow the enemy out of the skies,you want to touch the sky with glory but you want to induct Mark 1 which is still short of air staff requirements even with FOC. Ok go ahead. But kindly let me disagree.

Even in MRCA IAF wants proven platforms not promised platforms. If you agree with this line you will some how disagree with a lighter platform?You will clap and jump up and down if the choosen country in MRCA takes the money and throws up nasty surprises? Are you even clear what I am asking for? I am asking for the Mark 2 which is what the IAF wants. Why are guys tearing your hair out. Yoou don't agree for heaven's sake look the other way. Time will tell who is right. I will maintain my line which is if the Mark 2 isn't developed in the next 12 months stop wasting Tax payers money. If GOI and ADA wants they can get it done. But I will tell you one more thing. Expect more problems from US. ADA/DRDO made the wrong choice in selecting GE. The EJ would have helped get up the mark 2 much much much faster.

Godless Kafir keep you wise school girl comments for your kids. Don't cross the line. The moderator is watching

Vijay, i am sure your intentions are placed in the right place but did you read through my analogy? People lose lives while sitting on the chair or driving a car! Thats an risk we have to take, this is not high school gym where no one will have to get hurt. This is an war machine and so far the Tejas has not crashed, thats good even compared to the Griphen which had a crash while development. We have to start off with Indicas and Maruthi-800s to move one to build bigger and better stuff. The Dhruv and ALH are already comeing of age and thats proof enough we are heading in the right direction.

Thomas Edison failed 10,000 timed before he got the light bulb but your afraid of just one? Nothing appears through thin air everything happens through trail and error process, we fail a lot of times to get some where. The LCA is good in its class and what we have planned we must go ahead or the future of the Aero Space Industry is at stake.

Vijay, the worst part about you is you dont seem to discuss with points, you only rant on the bad parts but you back off when someone asks an explanation. Thats why people are bothered about you, try debating logically and with points. Tejas is just an baby and its an beginning, we cant make Lions out of cubs at birth. Your over estimating our nations abilities and thats why it falls short in your eyes, we are beginners remember that!

P.S. I did not see the last bit!! The moderators going to ban me for useing an analogy? The mods are going to ban you for being an troll who cant discuss specific points and just rants out of his hat.

 

[nitesh]

@all the hoopla about Nitesh's post

It is just a feel good post, nothing else. There are no real facts. If you want to delude yourself thinking indigenous at the cost of progress is the way to go then go right ahead. Sadly for you guys, the IAF planners do not think that way and neither does any military in the world.

oops facts hurt you. What is not a real fact, point out please. I would really like to know what counter argument you can provide

Right from comparing the Su-30k to Su-30MKI to the LCAs firing R-60s and now R-73s. There is a difference between taking 10 years to make the deadliest Air Superiority Fighter in existence (as of 2004) and taking 20 years to make a low cost point defence aircraft that does not fit requirements.

You hadn't got gist of the point, haven't you. How the Su 30 k got converted in to MKI? First 18 got inducted then they were flown around to see what improvements are needed, so IAF has to invest on the platform which was with "severe deficiencies", and then gradual improvement was done, same example has been given for other air forces too. This is how it is done across the globe. So stop running with the argument of induction is waste of money.

Facts speak for themselves. You just have to identify those facts from delusion.

Yes facts speak for themselves, you have get down from the high horse of delusion