ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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Kyubi

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India has made Hawk-i in India. India also can make its own HAWK except for engine and that too due to lack of technology.

Hawk design has been obtained by India and India can make it at will.


HTT40 has already been ordered in 100. Production will begin in 2018. HTT is nothing but Indian Pilatus PC7. PC7 has been used for CAS many times before too. It is very cheap to produce it too
HAL has modified the wings to an extent where the endurance is increased over the regular . The ardour engine will be modified for higjer thrust compared to the trainer version.

And Hawk design has not been bought as far as my knowledge goes . The Hawk trainers are license manufactured by HAL . HAWK - I is a collaborative work between HAL and BAE systems with 50% share each in marketing and other commercial aspects of this platform.

If u have anything pointing to the contrary please do share

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Kshithij

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HAL has modified the wings to an extent where the endurance is increased over the regular . The ardour engine will be modified for higjer thrust compared to the trainer version.

And Hawk design has not been bought as far as my knowledge goes . The Hawk trainers are license manufactured by HAL . HAWK - I is a collaborative work between HAL and BAE systems with 50% share each in marketing and other commercial aspects of this platform.

If u have anything pointing to the contrary please do share

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
HTT-40 is based on pilatus PC7 but modified by HAL.

BAE-HAWK has been license produced with engine component from BAE. If India makes HTFE, then BAE can be kicked out by launching another aircraft with borrowed design from HAWK, say HAL EAGLE. Just like HTT-40 from Pilatus has been modifed by HAL, new plane can be made from HAWK too. With the technology level of Hawk being simple, that is not a problem
 

Kshithij

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No it doesn't:
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/sukhoi-su-30mki.43829/page-75#post-1381884
As you can see, an A10 has operational costs just slightly below a medium class F16, while being limited to a single role only. And if used in contested areas, it requires additional fighter escorts, by the lack of self defense capability. So 5900+8200 dollar per hour, for a mission that could be done by a single F16 as well.

When you then compare it to light class fighters, or armed trainers, it gets even worse, because they are cheaper to operate.

So when you have air superiority, an LCA with the right combo of weapons, would be more capable and cost-effective for us.
While we need more capable MMRCAs and MKIs for attacks in high threat areas, where survivability has the highest priority.
The repair, maintenance cost is low for A10. The construction cost is low and engine is simpler for A10 and hence can be quickly constructed in large numbers. In addition, A10 has higher loitering time due to higher mileage, can gun down enemy infantry with machine guns at low cost. This is also the reason CAS planes have lower altitude.

Next, without Air superiority, no question of CAS even arises. One simply doesn't send troops into hostile territory without air superiority.

LCA can do CAS role but we are speaking of "cost".
 

pmaitra

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Sirji, are you pulling his leg with silly arguments...

Rafale Gun has 125 rounds of ammo and fires 2500 rounds per min. Do you expect rafale pilot to provide CAS with his gun having only 3 sec of trigger time!?

There is no information on gun pods equipped Rafales, if not please provide with source.

We forum members(atleast I do) expect mods to be the best members providing useful info.

Please don't troll.......
I don't need to provide any source because I did not make any claim yet. When I make a claim, I will back it up with a source. When I claimed altitude limits for CAS, I backed it up with a source pertinent to modern warfare that our friend Sancho terms as "outdated."

Our friend Sancho is asking a question. I'd rather he made a statement.
__________
Sirji, CAS is all about supporting ground troops. It doesn't mean that CAS ac have to fly low and slow and armoured to take direct hits from ZU-23s.

It can be done with A-10, Su 25, LCA, Rafale heck even with F-35. PGMs have paved the way to turn every aircraft into CAS. I hope you know the story of F-16 scared shit out of the bad guys using a sonic boom. You know that cost of each sortie would also come into picture right!?This cost along with loiter time has forced lot of nations to go for propeller driven aircraft and turn them into CAS. Even HAL has plans to arm HTT with Gun pods, rockets and ATGMs

British had used brimstone missile to turn every A/C into a CAS aircraft. Why can't we develop helina in that way
I don't want to repeat what I have said more than once already. I am also not interested in posting excerpts from the USAF document yet again. Let us agree to disagree.
__________
Lol, that page is from your own PDF and the definition was even marked in a different color, but let me zoom in for you:
I am looking for a support for this claim by you quoted below, for the second time.
altitude, speed or dive attacks has no relevance for the role,
Once you can back your claims up with a source, you may LOL, aka, Laugh-Out-Loud. :)
__________
=> air attack in support of friendly troops accounts for CAS!
Every air attack is done in support of friendly troops.
__________
That's why your earlier question (If you are using LGB, why do you need CAS?) was wrong and based on the flawed base, because you obviously don't understand, that an LGB strike in direct support of friendly troops already is CAS!
Was the question wrong? Or you don't have an explanation?
__________
That's why you keep repeating outdated stuff about low level and low speed, but fail to understand that LCA doesn't need that in modern CAS. All that counts today is, weapon load capability and weapon variety of the platform.
Outdated? Yes, by three years. :)

upload_2017-12-23_14-18-57.png

__________
But since you neither are reading your own document, nor my posts properly, it's evident that you just don't want to understand, which makes any further discussion pointless.
Well, I read this post of your's. I suggest you start reading the things you are posting and citing. Did you read them? Did you find any statement that says altitude has no relevance in CAS? Did you read that any air attack in support of friendly troops accounts for CAS? Or you just made them up?

P.S.: Nice projection. You yourself are not reading the document and you are projecting that unto me. :)
 

Kchontha

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A pair of canard or LEVCON of NLCA on AF LCA MK 2 is what defence gurus are suggesting since its conception. An indigenous effort like LCA MK2 will not die an immature dead, it will come back alive and kicking to replace jags and some of the mig variant when they are retiring.
 

tejas warrior

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Isn't the price high? Will Mk 2 better than Gripen NG?
Prices are speculation only.Even if that's correct:

- 25% will directly come back to govt as Tax.
- price are of future, may be starting 2025. (Consider inflation)
- you don't know what all are included in this package.
- You get 10x more jobs in India.
- your scientist get experience.
- you get IP of product, and can change it in future.
 

Adioz

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IAFs Kargil experience and nearly all kind of NATO wars after that.

Kargil showed us how inefficient dumb bomb attacks are, especially in difficult terrain, because dumb bombs can't be used as precise as guided bombs can. You therefore need far more bombs and sorites, do take out a target, when a single guided bomb can be used.

Modern warfare is also linked, where ground forces or UAVs can provided laser guidance for an LGB. That makes especially CAS more efficient and less risky for ground forces, than dropping dumb bombs or making gun attacks on an area, where the pilot thinks the enemies are (I read somewhere that the A10 has the highest friendly fire kills, must look that up once more).

And if you look at NATO wars, the need for guided bombs is even more obvious, because low collateral damage is a key requirement today. French Air Force uses AASM guidance kits, but replace the warhead with concrete, to have a high precision, low collateral damage weapon, because they don't want to use a 500lb warhead for a light target like a jeep, or the targets are in urban areas, with a lot of civilians around.

For LCA being able to drop dumb bombs and train pilots for dive attacks is a back up, but the priority lies in guided strike capability, as a lesson learned from past experience. The only sad thing is, that we don't have indigenous LGBs or ATGMs yet.

Btw LCA can fly low as well, but the point is, it doesn't need to in modern warfare, because it's the weapon that travels to the targets, since that increases the survivability. An A10 (or LCA) that launches an LGB from 14Km distance at high altitude, is more survivable against manpads and AA guns, than an A10 that has to fly close to the target to attack it with dumb bombs.
Looks like you did not read the last line of my previous reply, so allow me to ask again: What choice do you have if you cannot use PGMs from a standoff distance due to adverse weather conditions? Low altitude for CAS is not obsolete. It still has niche applications.

=> air attack in support of friendly troops accounts for CAS!
Every air attack is done in support of friendly troops.
CAS ≠ Battlefield Air Interdiction (BAI) ≠ Air Interdiction
Both CAS and BAI support troops, but the difference is proximity to own troops. BAI does not involve a ground officer calling for the strikes, whereas CAS does.

Trivia: the term IAF uses is not CAS but BAS (Battlefield Air Strike) and is classified as: Air attacks that take place in the tactical area of ground operations in direct support of ground troops on enemy units (tactical targets) engaged with own troops.

BAI: Battlefield Air Interdiction involves air attacks on enemy ground forces (tactical targets) that are in the vicinity of the battlefield but are not yet in contact with ground forces. BAI aims to make direct impact on a particular part of the frontline.

Air Interdiction is air attack on strategic targets behind enemy lines.
 

Kshithij

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Isn't the price high? Will Mk 2 better than Gripen NG?
Cost of 123 Tejas Mk1A is 50000 crore or 8 billion dollars. The 15 billion dollars is 1lakh crore. That is a big amount. There is little reason to say that Tejas MK2 costs more than twice that of MK1A. Let us wait and watch
 

patriots

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Tejas mk2 is in design stage.....may see a lots of changes.....

hope for the best
 

patriots

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Tejas is not going anywhere. govt has invested in Tejas ....we have sister project s too ..uttam aesa
and kaveri ....

from 1947 still now we are buying weapons. ... fighter jets , helicopters....if we will not change ,if we will not take risk. . . then we will buy till the end



.....so we should produce more and more Tejas ......
 

pmaitra

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Looks like you did not read the last line of my previous reply, so allow me to ask again: What choice do you have if you cannot use PGMs from a standoff distance due to adverse weather conditions? Low altitude for CAS is not obsolete. It still has niche applications.



CAS ≠ Battlefield Air Interdiction (BAI) ≠ Air Interdiction
Both CAS and BAI support troops, but the difference is proximity to own troops. BAI does not involve a ground officer calling for the strikes, whereas CAS does.

Trivia: the term IAF uses is not CAS but BAS (Battlefield Air Strike) and is classified as: Air attacks that take place in the tactical area of ground operations in direct support of ground troops on enemy units (tactical targets) engaged with own troops.

BAI: Battlefield Air Interdiction involves air attacks on enemy ground forces (tactical targets) that are in the vicinity of the battlefield but are not yet in contact with ground forces. BAI aims to make direct impact on a particular part of the frontline.

Air Interdiction is air attack on strategic targets behind enemy lines.
Thanks. I learnt something new today - BAI. Appreciated.
 

pmaitra

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Tejas is not going anywhere. govt has invested in Tejas ....we have sister project s too ..uttam aesa
and kaveri ....

from 1947 still now we are buying weapons. ... fighter jets , helicopters....if we will not change ,if we will not take risk. . . then we will buy till the end



.....so we should produce more and more Tejas ......
I believe they have already tested wind-tunnel models of the LCA with canards years ago.
 
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