ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Jackd]

What Enquirer said regarding the sea level trials is true. This is what is mentioned on the Tejas website:

Tejas speed envelope expanded to 1350 km/h (CAS) while performing flight flutter test in a dive to near sea level. These tests were conducted at INS Hansa, Goa.

http://www.tejas.gov.in/history/milestones.html
Link attached so people can see for themselves.
I hope this will help in bringing more clarity and hopefully clear the misunderstanding of some.

 

[ersakthivel]

Morons like ersakthivel assume that they are big shots because of the unbounded servility from folks like you who cannot think for themselves, but will shamelessly echo every word of his!!
Aren't you even educated enough to ask a question in your own words??

That said, why do you even assume that data in the question is accurate?? Because this moron ersakthivel said so?

Show me a reliable source that Tejas and Su-30MKI have same top speed at sea level under the same conditions!!!

The mach 1.1 at sea level for Tejas was achieved while diving to sea level not on level flight! It's totally dishonest (if not ignorant) to obscure the flight conditions when comparing! While Su-30MKI reaches 1.1 mach at sea level in level flight!

Su-30MKI has top speed (at altitude) of 2.2 Mach; while Tejas has 1.4 Mach!!! Why do you assume that they'll suddenly equalize at sea level - unless you're poor at physics???!!!

Again, just because you wish to believe in some lies & bullshit and I don't, doesn't mean that you love Tejas more than I do!
I know the facts; and I still like what I see. I don't need the crutch of lies like you folks do!!!

http://archive.indianexpress.com/ne...s-clocks-fastest-speed-during-testing/551536/


That dive is Free fallowing dive you egg head.

 

[ersakthivel]

Morons like ersakthivel assume that they are big shots because of the unbounded servility from folks like you who cannot think for themselves, but will shamelessly echo every word of his!!
Aren't you even educated enough to ask a question in your own words??

That said, why do you even assume that data in the question is accurate?? Because this moron ersakthivel said so?

Show me a reliable source that Tejas and Su-30MKI have same top speed at sea level under the same conditions!!!

The mach 1.1 at sea level for Tejas was achieved while diving to sea level not on level flight! It's totally dishonest (if not ignorant) to obscure the flight conditions when comparing! While Su-30MKI reaches 1.1 mach at sea level in level flight!

Su-30MKI has top speed (at altitude) of 2.2 Mach; while Tejas has 1.4 Mach!!! Why do you assume that they'll suddenly equalize at sea level - unless you're poor at physics???!!!

Again, just because you wish to believe in some lies & bullshit and I don't, doesn't mean that you love Tejas more than I do!
I know the facts; and I still like what I see. I don't need the crutch of lies like you folks do!!!

http://archive.indianexpress.com/ne...s-clocks-fastest-speed-during-testing/551536/

Speed achieved during FLUTTER TEST.

IN flutter test pilot takes off his hands from controls.

After 4 seconds he puts his hands back on.

Gives full throttle to break from five.

It was during that full throttle moment tejas broke the sound barrier.

So IAF Personnel said, teja & su 30 moi has
That dive is Free fallowing dive you egg head.

 

[shiphone]

as that mentioned, such Low altitude High speed flying test is for flutter test to test the flutter character of this airplane design.and usually it is also for test the structural strength limitation of this airplane design...

the air at low altitude is much denser than high level (temperature is another important condition :colder -->thicker air---> higher pressure), the plane flying high speed here will bear great air pressure and dangerous flutter followed. that airspeed(low level) actually might be translated to how big the dynamic pressure is. so this speed value normally means how 'strong' the plane is. generally this Generation fighter(4th gen, your standard) has around 100km/h higher performace than 3rd Gen which means they are 'stronger' not 'faster'. 1350 is a typical value for this generation fighters which means LCA qualified this general standard .

relatively speaking, dive or level fly is not that important

------------
BTW, with the price of Tandem two-seat, canard, and TVC without extra thrust, MKI has a 1.9 mach top speed at high level which is well listed on sukhoi web-before revision.

 

[Enquirer]

http://archive.indianexpress.com/ne...s-clocks-fastest-speed-during-testing/551536/

Speed achieved during FLUTTER TEST.

IN flutter test pilot takes off his hands from controls.

After 4 seconds he puts his hands back on.

Gives full throttle to break from five.

It was during that full throttle moment tejas broke the sound barrier.

So IAF Personnel said, teja & su 30 moi has
That dive is Free fallowing dive you egg head.

@kstriya ....and this (above) bumbling moron is your guru??

 

[HariPrasad-1]

They say that the weight shall be 7.8 tons to 8 tons . It is not a bit heavy.

Mk2 has a bit heavier,

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Only be true to US, Russia, British and partly France, for other countries like China, India, Japan, the aerodynamic, material, precision manufacturing, etc are the most difficult as they lack the accumulation in history. Instead, aviation and software are the field where the gaps are smallest.

I always want basic platform to be top notched as Electronics comes and go. The most latest electronic will become outdated in 6 to 7 years. So first priority is to put platform right aerodynamically, in terms of weight and design, maintenance etc.

This should follow the continual improvement in phases like US does to F18 and other aircraft.

 

[ersakthivel]

@kstriya ....and this (above) bumbling moron is your guru??

Yo eggspurt enquirer,

I was traveling, so post finished midway,

First get the meaning of flutter test into your wooden head.

Flutter test means,

Pilot takes his hands off the throttle & the plane descends IN ALTITUDE ,WITHOUT pilots control.

It checks the airframe 's aerodynamics


As the plane gradually loses altitude for a few seconds, & comes to close to sea level,

The pilot takes over the controls,

Gives it full throttle,to break free from the drive,

It was during this point Tejas reached its sea level top speed equal to that of su 30 mki's sea level top speed in indian conditions,

Fools like you try to twist this like as if Tejas took a fully powered dive, to reach its top supersonic speeds at sea level.

But that's not the fact,

The dive was power less descent in a flutter test towards sea level,

Pilot broke the sound barrier, by working against the downward momentum of the fighter & getting into level flight ,

in the process ,breaking sound the barrier at sea level.

ThatsThehy IAF official said that tejas has the same sea level top speed as that of su30 MKI in ,"indian conditions",

You don't hv to misinform every one here,

Any fool knows that su 30 mis top speed at service ceiling will always be greater than that of Tejas,

Because silhouette has a higher service ceiling.

As you gain in altitude, top speed goes up.

At sea level ,
the airframe of Tejas mk1

has the same aerodynamic efficiency as that of su 30 mki.

So your pathetic lies of Tejas airframe not efficient because it doesn't follow Whitcomb rule belongs to dust bin.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Again the key is space! LCA was sadly designed with limited foresight on upgradability, the focus was on a very small overall size, which in return leaves not enough space for internal systems. That's one reason MK1A will remain with an external SPJ, although that's not modern standard anymore, or why MK2 gets a plug to add avionics.
The same is the issue for MAWS, which require space either in the airframe, or in external housings on the airframe or pylons.

The part of the solution is to redesign many LRUS in phase manner and replace them with smaller ones or to merge LRUS in one which is actually planned. New chips are coming which will reduce the size of electronics though it will not save much weight, loads of space can be released. Canopy redesign is planned as an aerodynamic improvement which shall add 60 kg additional fuel in the tank. Pilot cabin is much specious and seat is set with a lots of inclination. If it is set properly, space can be released on back side of the seat and some more fuel can be added. These are phased upgrade which should be followed in phase manner. Aerodynamic studies of MK1 has shown that 6% aerodynamic improvement is possible in MK1 which will increase trans sonic acceleration by 20% and highest speed by some 2%. In my opinion this should improve range as well. There are some chances of weight reduction as well. Some people say that Tejas has some cabling of 400 KG which can be reduced to 200 kg with modern techniques of cabling. Landing gear may offer some weight reduction as well. Navy had said that they can bring down the landing gear weight to Current air force version so natutally you can certainly slash down the weight of air force version landing gear. Mora Composite may go into skin and in parts. so if all these are done gradually, Mk1+ may also be a very decent fighter with some 2000 km range and 4 ton weight. All depends on how you pursue improvements.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Mk1A with ASEA ASTRA COMBO is as good as 5th gen stealth fighter for 90% of the PLAF & PAF fighters.

It is ok for J 20 but what PAF has in the name of fifth generation?

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Hal Tejas is a decent fighter but it's 20 years late.

Seriously, I am not happy the way this project handled.

Are you faithful guy of PDF? The famous Chinese troll or a genuine Indian member?

 

[ersakthivel]

What Enquirer said regarding the sea level trials is true. This is what is mentioned on the Tejas website:

Tejas speed envelope expanded to 1350 km/h (CAS) while performing flight flutter test in a dive to near sea level. These tests were conducted at INS Hansa, Goa.

http://www.tejas.gov.in/history/milestones.html
Link attached so people can see for themselves.
I hope this will help in bringing more clarity and hopefully clear the misunderstanding of some.

Was that a powered dive or not?

The link below mentions flutter test &

Reaching top sea level speed seperately.


http://archive.indianexpress.com



This is the actual FLUTTER TRST carried on tejas


https://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/ada-tejas-lca-news-and-discussions.1/page-32

There was a link to this test procedure in the link above.

That link is not working.
i

"STAFF WRITER 14:14 HRS IST
INS Hansa Base (Goa), Dec 9 (PTI) The aircraft dived towards the sea as the pilot lifted his hands off the control stick for five seconds. In such a short duration, it had plummeted from four kilometres above sea level to just 900 metresbefore the pilot hit to the throttle again to take to the skies.

The 'flight flutter test', a mandatory procedure for fighter crafts, was conducted off the Goa coast on Tejas in maritime environment by the agencies, which are testing this technology, a seniorIndian Air Force officer said today.

The successful flight flutter test on the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, was an important step towards developing of this craft,labelled as the first supersonic fighter planemanufactured in India, theofficer said.".



The description says flutter test was carried out ,with pilot taking his hands off the controls in a free falling dive.

& Regained control 900 meter above sea level.

The indian express report mentions flutter test & teja going past its design sea level top supersonic speeds separately.

ADA document combines both.

But description of flutter test was ," 5 second dive from 4 kms to 900 meters above sea level , with pilot taking his hands OFF the controls.

Surely this dive can't be described powered dive as few guys are implying it to be.

Do you hv any further info on this,

Now all Teja spec sheet mention teja is supersonic at all altitudes.

Surely going supersonic in a powered dive can't be mentioned as supersonic at all altitudes.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

SO ONLY AN AGENDA POSTER WILL REPEATEDLY DUMP GARBAGE SAYING TEJAS IS A MIG 21 CLASS FIGHTER.

They often mis quote Ex airforce chief P V Naik saying that Tejas is MK1++. Infact, he had said that Tejas is currently Mig 21++ (Before even IOC) He said that airforce has waited a long for it and they did not want partial fighter. this mean they wanted it full developed to its 4th generation potential. Tejas was even 3.5 generation before IOC. It is 4+ generation now and with AESA and EW , it will be 4.5 generation.

 

[ersakthivel]

Successful flight flutter test for Tejas

Published by: Yateesh Kukreti
Published: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 at 13:05 IST

INS Hansa Base (Goa): The aircraft dived towards the sea as the pilot lifted his hands off from the controlstick for five seconds. In such a short duration, it had plummeted from four kilometers above sea level to just 900 metres before the pilot took off towards the skies again.

The successful flight flutter test on the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas, was an important step towards developing of this craft,labelled as the first supersonic fighter plane manufactured in India.

Tejas, conceived by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), is undergoing sea-level flight testsincluding flutter clearance, weapon firing, performance, stability and avionicsvalidation off the shores ofGoa.

The flight flutter test, a mandatory procedure forfighter crafts, was conducted off the Goa coast in maritime environment by the agencies, which are testing this technology.

The flight, which went eight kilometers above sea level, came down to six kilometers taking a five degree dip and later dipped further to ten degrees to reach four kilometers, a senior Indian Air Force officer stated.

When the aircraft reached to four kilometers level above the sea, within seconds, thepilot initiated a self test wherein he left the hands from the control stick leaving the aircraft on its own.

"The flight was left out of control for five seconds by the pilot and it went on diving down to the sea,"Commander Rohit Varma, Project Director (flight test), National Flight Test Centre, told PTI.

At the end of five seconds, when the pilot held on the control stick again, he was just 900 metres above the sea level. "He immediately pulled out from there again and took to the skies," Varma said.

With this, the flight flutter test, one amongst the 3,000-odd test points conducted on LCA before launching it formally, was successful.

The LCA's air force version is in its final phase while the naval version is progressing at rapid pace despite certain glitches which are being overcome, the officer said.

The LAC can perform in air to air combat and also hit the target on the ground with 1,000 pound bombs installed on it.

Varma said that the aircraft was tested with basic air to ground using carrier bomb light stores. "The actual 1,000 pound bomb would be tested at a desert range like Pokhran," he said.

INS Hansa, Dabolim, Goa:The ongoing sea-level flight trials of India's Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which were carried out for two weeks over Goa air space, have been brought to a successful conclusion with the aircraft zooming around at a speed of 1,350 kmph (approx. Mach1.1). In the process it clocked its fastest speed ever, a top IAF officer said on Tuesday. The aircraft has steadily been crossingone critical milestone after another on the way to initial operational clearance inDecember 2010.

 

[ersakthivel]

Successful flight flutter test for Tejas

Published by: Yateesh Kukreti
Published: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 at 13:05 IST

INS Hansa Base (Goa): The aircraft dived towards the sea as the pilot lifted his hands off from the controlstick for five seconds. In such a short duration, it had plummeted from four kilometers above sea level to just 900 metres before the pilot took off towards the skies again.

The successful flight flutter test on the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas, was an important step towards developing of this craft,labelled as the first supersonic fighter plane manufactured in India.

Tejas, conceived by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), is undergoing sea-level flight testsincluding flutter clearance, weapon firing, performance, stability and avionicsvalidation off the shores ofGoa.

The flight flutter test, a mandatory procedure forfighter crafts, was conducted off the Goa coast in maritime environment by the agencies, which are testing this technology.

The flight, which went eight kilometers above sea level, came down to six kilometers taking a five degree dip and later dipped further to ten degrees to reach four kilometers, a senior Indian Air Force officer stated.

When the aircraft reached to four kilometers level above the sea, within seconds, thepilot initiated a self test wherein he left the hands from the control stick leaving the aircraft on its own.

"The flight was left out of control for five seconds by the pilot and it went on diving down to the sea,"Commander Rohit Varma, Project Director (flight test), National Flight Test Centre, told PTI.

At the end of five seconds, when the pilot held on the control stick again, he was just 900 metres above the sea level. "He immediately pulled out from there again and took to the skies," Varma said.

With this, the flight flutter test, one amongst the 3,000-odd test points conducted on LCA before launching it formally, was successful.

The LCA's air force version is in its final phase while the naval version is progressing at rapid pace despite certain glitches which are being overcome, the officer said.

The LAC can perform in air to air combat and also hit the target on the ground with 1,000 pound bombs installed on it.

Varma said that the aircraft was tested with basic air to ground using carrier bomb light stores. "The actual 1,000 pound bomb would be tested at a desert range like Pokhran," he said.

INS Hansa, Dabolim, Goa:The ongoing sea-level flight trials of India's Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which were carried out for two weeks over Goa air space, have been brought to a successful conclusion with the aircraft zooming around at a speed of 1,350 kmph (approx. Mach1.1). In the process it clocked its fastest speed ever, a top IAF officer said on Tuesday. The aircraft has steadily been crossingone critical milestone after another on the way to initial operational clearance inDecember 2010.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Earlier this speed (1350 km ph at sea level) was struck by IAF tejas. Now Naval variant with atleast 1 ton higher payload does this. This is an improvement in performance and according to me it is because of better aerodynamics. If members can remember first flight when it had done double in climb rate for which even the software was not configured. It was changed later on. I have been searching the answer of this for a long long time but I am yet to get any convincing answer. I will be very thankful if any any member can throw some light on it.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

" 5 second dive from 4 kms to 900 meters above sea level , with pilot taking his hands OFF the controls.

This is 3100 meter in 5 second is a speed of 1860 KM per hour. It is great. What is the highest speed Tejas done till date? In my knowledge it is 1699 KM for air force Tejas in high altitude flight without any dive.

 

[ersakthivel]

This is 3100 meter in 5 second is a speed of 1860 KM per hour. It is great. What is the highest speed Tejas done till date? In my knowledge it is 1699 KM for air force Tejas in high altitude flight without any dive.

But this is powerless decent,
So can it be credited for flight speed?

 

[Jackd]

"The aircraft went past its ultimate speed of 1350 kmph on December 7 over the skies in Goa after take off from the naval air station INS Hansa," Commander Rohit Varma, project director (flight test), National flight test centre, told reporters here.

"This is the fastest speed ever achieved by an Indian- made fighter aircraft," he said.

The aircraft also passed flight flutter test diving from an altitude of four kilometers to almost sea level at 900 feet. Quoted from Indian express article.

Nowhere does it say that Tejas achieved this speed while in level flight (altitude is maintained) and until you can provide some conclusive evidence, I am inclined to believe that Tejas achieved this speed during its dive phase.

Also, this was mentioned on the FAA website: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/Acceleration.pdf
"The force of gravity on earth causes a constant
acceleration of 32 feet-per-second squared. An object
in freefall will accelerate at an ever-increasing speed
toward earth."

 

[Jackd]

Maybe, I can be wrong. It would help if someone (not ersa) would shed some light on this stuff. I am a bit confused about the speed during free fall.