ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Kshithij]

That's why I said I expect orders around + 50 in total. Considering we secure a deal for replacing Vietnamese SU-22.

Vietnam also has US embargo. USA announced that the embargo will be lifted for both Vietnam and Lanka but that still makes USA a suspect nation to these countries. Once the trust is lost, it is hard to regain. USA has done no effort in regaining the trust.

Also, i don't think that the embargo has been completely lifted. There was only an announcement but the execution is pending. USA has not yet supplie any major arms for these countries.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Vietnam also has US embargo. USA announced that the embargo will be lifted for both Vietnam and Lanka but that still makes USA a suspect nation to these countries. Once the trust is lost, it is hard to regain. USA has done no effort in regaining the trust.

Also, i don't think that the embargo has been completely lifted. There was only an announcement but the execution is pending. USA has not yet supplie any major arms for these countries.

The US had put an embargo on us after Pokhran. Now Tejas is flying with F-404. Soon 123 Tejas will be flying with the same engine. Then we have a fleet of C-17, C-130, P-8s........That's a level of risk everyone takes.

Also, relations do get south and also gets to normal. There is something called diplomacy to keep environment conducive.

Beyond this, i have nothing to add. I can't predict future.

Obama lifts US embargo on lethal arms sales to Vietnam

Trump urges Vietnam to buy US missiles

 

[Prashant12]

The Tejas Story: Interview of Air Marshal (R) Philip Rajkumar for Aero India 2017

 

[G10]

Raunak kunde on idrw.org is claiming gsh cannon is being delinked from foc. How can a combat aircraft be without this?

 

[Anathema]

delinked from FOC doesnt mean that capability is not existing. Its just not tested to the full spectrum. They are right to de-link from foc. This capability can always be brought out fully in Mk1.A

 

[G10]

What kind of combat would a aircraft do without a gun. Its best a patrol aircraft now. After so many years of ground test they cannot test it in air. Something is seriously wrong and these duffers are covering it up.

 

[BlackJay]

Raunak kunde on idrw.org is claiming gsh cannon is being delinked from foc. How can a combat aircraft be without this?

Indranil on BRF has been saying this for months.IRDW as usual is just copy pasting.

Delinking from FOC doesn't mean gun will be removed from Tejas.It simply means that FOC formalities doesn't involve gun firing certification any more.They only have to certify gun for full flight envelope of Tejas.Actual aerial firing will occur sometime later and is not deemed necessary for FOC anymore.
This will actually result in faster FOC.

Also remember that Tejas already fired it's gun on land.It's actually more stressful on airframe because plane is tethered to ground.So no worries, if IAF does not believe it's necessary for FOC then who are we?:biggrin2:

 

[G10]

FOC is just a certification.
Is it fine sending a soldier to battlefield with grenades but without a rifle or gun.
I dont think that gun is going to be mounted on lca soon. It doesnt take this much time after clearing ground trials.
Agree ground trials would have more stress but aerial test is different. The recoil can affect aerial stability of aircraft in case of light aircraft. Also i doubt did that aircraft really cleared ground tests? I mean we did see tgat video but creep and fatigue is bitch. Even natural frequency of parts.

 

[Kshithij]

FOC is just a certification.
Is it fine sending a soldier to battlefield with grenades but without a rifle or gun.
I dont think that gun is going to be mounted on lca soon. It doesnt take this much time after clearing ground trials.
Agree ground trials would have more stress but aerial test is different. The recoil can affect aerial stability of aircraft in case of light aircraft. Also i doubt did that aircraft really cleared ground tests? I mean we did see tgat video but creep and fatigue is bitch. Even natural frequency of parts.

The modern gun is called AAM (Air to air missile)

 

[BlackJay]

FOC is just a certification.
Is it fine sending a soldier to battlefield with grenades but without a rifle or gun.
I dont think that gun is going to be mounted on lca soon. It doesnt take this much time after clearing ground trials.
Agree ground trials would have more stress but aerial test is different. The recoil can affect aerial stability of aircraft in case of light aircraft. Also i doubt did that aircraft really cleared ground tests? I mean we did see tgat video but creep and fatigue is bitch. Even natural frequency of parts.

Valid points but their is no way for you and me to know the truth,we are just speculating.

I am just repeating (almost word by word) what Indranil had been saying for few months now, before any such news even broke about.So it's really a question of whether you believe him or not.I do, but it's a personal opinion and others will have different one.

 

[AMCA]

FOC is just a certification.
Is it fine sending a soldier to battlefield with grenades but without a rifle or gun.
I dont think that gun is going to be mounted on lca soon. It doesnt take this much time after clearing ground trials.
Agree ground trials would have more stress but aerial test is different. The recoil can affect aerial stability of aircraft in case of light aircraft. Also i doubt did that aircraft really cleared ground tests? I mean we did see tgat video but creep and fatigue is bitch. Even natural frequency of parts.

In modern warfare most of the air to air kills will be scored by CCMs.

 

[Kshithij]

In modern warfare most of the air to air kills will be scored by CCMs.

The CCM and BVR AAM will be the same missile to reduce logistics. Also, modern planes are too fast and maneuverable for guns to be used. The guns could be used to fire at helicopters or other slower objects like drones

 

[Steven Rogers]

The CCM and BVR AAM will be the same missile to reduce logistics. Also, modern planes are too fast and maneuverable for guns to be used. The guns could be used to fire at helicopters or other slower objects like drones

Once you picked up opponent's tail, then how much maneuverable he is, his ass gonna burn with those big gun rounds. HUD is a big aid for pilots.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[Narasimh]

FOC is just a certification.
Is it fine sending a soldier to battlefield with grenades but without a rifle or gun.
I dont think that gun is going to be mounted on lca soon. It doesnt take this much time after clearing ground trials.
Agree ground trials would have more stress but aerial test is different. The recoil can affect aerial stability of aircraft in case of light aircraft. Also i doubt did that aircraft really cleared ground tests? I mean we did see tgat video but creep and fatigue is bitch. Even natural frequency of parts.

It will not be the first plane without a gun. Most interceptor role aircrafts were designed without gun including the F-4, Mig 25, even F-35 (except Air-Force variant). Relying on missiles is the mantra for these.

There is an argument that Vietnam war taught that guns are essential considering the F-4 to Mig Kill ratio. But the fact is the kill ratio increased for the US Navy without guns after they established Top Gun training school which focussed on training.

Similarly Tejas is potent without the Gun also but yes it will good to have that at least in mk-1A.

please check the quora forum: https://www.quora.com/Are-cannons-or-machine-guns-on-fighter-jets-necessary

 

[Enquirer]

It will not be the first plane without a gun. Most interceptor role aircrafts were designed without gun including the F-4, Mig 25, even F-35 (except Air-Force variant). Relying on missiles is the mantra for these.

There is an argument that Vietnam war taught that guns are essential considering the F-4 to Mig Kill ratio. But the fact is the kill ratio increased for the US Navy without guns after they established Top Gun training school which focussed on training.

Similarly Tejas is potent without the Gun also but yes it will good to have that at least in mk-1A.

please check the quora forum: https://www.quora.com/Are-cannons-or-machine-guns-on-fighter-jets-necessary

Missiles cost around $3 million a pop. There are a tonne of low threat, low cost targets that need to be taken out in a cost effective manner.

For example:
When a large Mylar (birthday) balloon from Pakistan floated into Indian airspace, it lit up on the air defense radars. Su30-MKI was scrambled; it took it down by firing its gun! Just imagine if a $3 million missile was fired at a Mylar balloon!!!!
Pakistan will easily bankrupt India by letting loose tonnes of Mylar balloons

 

[Kshithij]

Missiles cost around $3 million a pop. There are a tonne of low threat, low cost targets that need to be taken out in a cost effective manner.

For example:
When a large Mylar (birthday) balloon from Pakistan floated into Indian airspace, it lit up on the air defense radars. Su30-MKI was scrambled; it took it down by firing its gun! Just imagine if a $3 million missile was fired at a Mylar balloon!!!!
Pakistan will easily bankrupt India by letting loose tonnes of Mylar balloons

Which BVR missile costs 3 million dollars or 20 crore rupees? The AIM120c costs 100k dollars. Astra costs much less.

That being said, the guns are also important to shoot at slow targets like drones, choppers etc

 

[Enquirer]

Which BVR missile costs 3 million dollars or 20 crore rupees? The AIM120c costs 100k dollars. Astra costs much less.

That being said, the guns are also important to shoot at slow targets like drones, choppers etc

Dude! Which world do you live in???

The old version AIM120C still costs about $0.5million - add storage/maintenance/handling it will easily cost $1 million! The latest version AIM120D costs about $2 million (lifetime costs will easily be about $3 million)

Whoever told you Astra costs less than 100K! Astra is in the range of about $1.5-$2 million a pop!!

Mica/Meteor and other (real) BVRAAM's cost arout $2-3million a pop!!

Airforces won't keep some 50yr old cheap missiles handy to pop balloons. They'll standardize their armaments with the latest that they can afford!

 

[Narasimh]

Missiles cost around $3 million a pop. There are a tonne of low threat, low cost targets that need to be taken out in a cost effective manner.

For example:
When a large Mylar (birthday) balloon from Pakistan floated into Indian airspace, it lit up on the air defense radars. Su30-MKI was scrambled; it took it down by firing its gun! Just imagine if a $3 million missile was fired at a Mylar balloon!!!!
Pakistan will easily bankrupt India by letting loose tonnes of Mylar balloons

I hope you are not being serious here because by that logic, just to scramble fighters there is a lot of cost involved, plus there are AA and SAM batteries which are all engaged and they fire. they could bankrupt us Gun or No Gun.

But agreed that guns are more economical for shooting such targets but doesn't matter much as it is anyways being addressed in mk1A for Tejas.

 

[Enquirer]

I hope you are not being serious here because by that logic, just to scramble fighters there is a lot of cost involved, plus there are AA and SAM batteries which are all engaged and they fire. they could bankrupt us Gun or No Gun.

But agreed that guns are more economical for shooting such targets but doesn't matter much as it is anyways being addressed in mk1A for Tejas.

The incident I mentioned did happen couple of years back. Not kidding.

AA & SAM batteries don't fire automatically - someone needs to determine that the target needs to be taken down using the SAM; or inspect by scrambling aircraft.

 

[Prashant12]

The external drop tanks of all capacities have different certification process as far as aerodynamic, flight control system, stores management system or store separation procedures are concerned. They pose different challenges. The fuel system ensures the integrity of these drop tanks from sequencing point of view keeping in view of the C.G management aspects. Even though the robust flight control system handles perturbations, it is the individual system designer's challenge to mitigate all possible risks involved in the process.
Here we dedicate this image of KH-2014 taxying out with the Centrline Drop tank for a test sortie, to all the designers starting involved in the process along with the instrumentation engineers who provide data to prove and improve the system.

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