ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
Status
Not open for further replies.

Rahul Singh

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
3,652
Likes
5,790
Country flag

warriorextreme

New Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
1,871
Likes
3,052
Country flag
now that we are going to retire our fleet of mig-21 and mig-27..how many Tejas MK-II are going to be built and inducted??
300-400 will be better number.
 

sesha_maruthi27

New Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
3,963
Likes
1,803
Country flag
Tejas fo indian navy



HAL rolled out the naval version of the LCA on 5 July with RM and CNS proudly looking on. The naval version is a modified LCA with strict naval specifications - a sturdier undercarriage to withstand hard landings on the flight deck, a hook under the fuselage to latch on to an arrestor wire spread across the deck (stops the aircraft within a few feet of landing) and foldable wings for ease of stowage on the fight deck and in the hangar below deck. The front fuselage has been 'dipped' to have a better view of the deck while landing and taking off. It is capable of take off using the ski jump.

The aircraft for the time being will be powered by a US made GE F-404-IN20 engine till such time as HAL can perfect its own engine. It has fly by wire controls, state of art avionics, a glass cockpit and multi-mode radar. Two versions single-seat and twin seat are being developed for Indian naval flight strategy considerations. An air to air refuelling pod will give it extended range and time on task capabilities. The first flight of the aircarft is expected within a month.

The weapons package includes a mounted twin barrelled 23mm canon besides air-to-surface and air-to-air missiles.

The aircraft will be the main weapon of the indigenous IAC1 and will also replace the Navy's ageing Sea Harriers.
 

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
New Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,309
FORCE - A Complete News Magazine on National Security - Defence Magazine

Given the Features and Functionality of the Tejas, We Feel the Weight is Reasonable'
Director ADA, P.S. Subramanyam

What is the current status of the LCA programme?

We have developed 2 technology demonstrators TD-1 and TD-2; we have the four prototypes PV-1, PV-2, PV-3 and PV-4. The Limited Series Production aircraft ranging from LSP-1 to LSP-4 are all flying. TD-1, TD-2 and PV-1 have now become outdated and are used for ground testing or testing of equipment that needs to be developed for the Tejas. All the aircraft from PV-2 onwards are participating in the flying test campaign. LSP-5 is currently the final 'Standard of Preparation' that we will deliver to the Indian Air Force (IAF) and this aircraft is expected to fly this month. LSP-6 and LSP-7 will follow and have been earmarked for the user evaluation by pilots belonging to the Aircraft Systems and Testing Establishment (ASTE).

Both the IAF and the Indian Navy have committed some money for the Tejas Mk-2 which will be equipped with a higher performing engine. We now have a concurrent programme to develop the Tejas Mk-2 version for the IAF and the Indian Navy. The PV-5 which is a trainer version of the Tejas' is flying and another aircraft PV-6 is expected to fly by the end of this year. The maiden flight of the Tejas Mk-2 is expected to take place in December 2014 and production will begin in December 2016.

What is the current order book for the Tejas and what orders can be expected in the future?

Based on the progress observed by the IAF an order for 20 'Tejas' fighters was placed by the IAF in 2006. Further developments in the LCA programme have resulted in order for another 20 aircraft. There exists a requirement on paper for 100 fighters (five squadrons) for the IAF and a 50 for the Indian Navy, which has been put up to the government of India. The technology growth in engines has been so rapid that is has been very difficult to keep pace with the technology. As a result, the Kaveri engine which we began with in the early Nineties is now unable to match the performance requirements demanded by the user. We are confident that the Tejas equipped with the alternate engine will provide the IAF with a fighter which offers contemporary performance over a decade of service.

What is the configuration of the LSP versions and what changes will Mk-2 versions entail?

Equipment-fit LSP-wise is in the final standard of preparation for the IAF. All the sensors, communication equipment and weapons required for the current Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) are present. Also since we were designing a fighter of this class for the first time, we were very conservative in the design. Especially when it came to structural strength characteristics and this has lead to an increase in weight. Weight optimisation will be undertaken for the Tejas Mk-2 variant to reduce its weight. The Mk-2 version will also have better Centre of Gravity (CG) management and maintainability features. Within the programme feasibility, we will be revamping the cockpit electronics to bring it more up to date with technologies that will be prevalent around 2016. There will be advanced electronics, improved cockpit displays and interfaces which will remain contemporary even in the 2020's.
The Tejas Mk-2 will feature an alternate engine which will offer a performance increase of about 10 per cent. The engine change for Mk-2 will result in the rear fuselage being changed and intakes having to be redesigned. All these structural changes will also reflect in drawing changes and parts fabrication. The digital Fly by Wire (FBW) Flight Control System (FCS) will not change. We do not see much impact when it comes to hydraulics, electronics and undercarriage, etc. With regards to the developmental programme this will not be a major impact.

What is the update on the LCA Naval version?

The 'Power On' for the Navy version has to take place where we test all the functions; this will be followed by four to six weeks of exhaustive testing. If we are able to demonstrate the naval variant at the Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) in Goa, then the navy may consider orders for the Mk-1 variant of Tejas itself, to fill the gap for light fighters to operate off its careers. We also expect the navy to order around 2 squadrons of the Mk-2 variant. Initial funding of about Rs 900 crore was obtained for the Naval variant in 2003, as we went along there were many challenges and we found that a major portion of the structure had to be strengthened, nose droop was required, extra control surfaces and the flight control system of Naval variant differs from the IAF variant because of the low speed landing requirements of the LCA Navy. In hindsight, it would have been easier to design the naval variant first and then quickly move onto the air force variant and not the other way around. Our initial estimates on the amount of work required on the Naval variant were not quite accurate and the programme gave us some surprises.

What is being done to address concerns that the LCA is overweight?

When you consider the amount of features and functionality given in the Tejas, we feel the weight is reasonable. We had planned initially for a fighter in the 5.5 tonne category but currently it has grown to about 6.5 tonne. The penalty of the weight increase is visible in one or two performance parameters. Some parameters like the sustained turn rate and the severity of other performance requirements earlier are not there now because of change in weapon systems. Particularly guided missiles, which today are all aspect missiles slaved to Helmet Mounted Display Systems (HMDS), advanced electronics and radar. Due to the weight growth, there have been certain deviations in the performance parameters. The IAF has validated these deviations to be compensated by advanced weapon systems which were not available in 1985. We will not incorporate any changes in the Mk-1 version as it is ready for production. In the Mk-2 version of Tejas, we expect to see weight savings of around 300 to 500Kg which will come from weight optimisation in the aircraft structures alone.

What is required to ensure CEMILAC clearance will be obtained in December, followed by the IOC?

The CEMILAC clearance is actually a 'Release to Certification', with this certification the Tejas can be cleared for use by the operator i.e. IAF. It was being flown till now by pilots belonging to the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC), the 'Release to Certification' will see the Tejas being flown by operational pilots of the IAF. To get CEMILAC certification, a process begins and we have to capture all data that has been generated over the last 20 years and put it through filters to address problems if any. CEMILAC will check all the data we provide and match performance figures for the aircraft and then they approve as a third party agency, the 'Standard of Preparation'. This will happen by December. We have around 300 people working on all the design data generated and double checking the same. We have not encountered any major issues as part of the certification process so far. In the LCA programme, quality has been given the highest priority.

The IOC is an understanding with the users i.e. IAF, telling CEMILAC to clear the aircraft in this particular standard of preparation. We will be providing the IAF with an aircraft that is equipped with a specific set of sensors, weapons, avionics, etc. and a particular standard of performance and functionality as declared in the 'Standard of Preparation'. The IOC is a nomenclature used by the IAF and the 'Release to Certification' is provided by CEMILAC. The IAF will move towards FOC for the Tejas in 2014. We have to add a new CCM, BVR, extra weapons and it will also have a mid-air refueling system along with new drop tanks and few other refinements. We look at adding these features in the second lot of 20 aircraft.
 

ajtr

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
12,038
Likes
724
mass produce it in ten thousands and cover the whole skies of china and pakistan with it.
 

sneha_sharma

New Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
12
Likes
3
For any Big nation its needed to have 3 Major kind of fighter planes
1. Heavy weight : F15, F22, Su27 Family, FGFA
2. Medium role (twin engine) : F18, EFT, MiG29 family
3. Light weight : Grippen, F16, J10s

IAF will have FGFA, MKI in 1st category, MMRCA and AMCA in second, the third will be filled by LCA.. So if we go by number IAF need at least 300+ planes in light weight category, and in near future I don see any other light weight fighter which will fill this gap.

300+ MKI
200+ FGFA
130+ MMRCA
100+ MiG29/35
100+ AMCA (if roll out)
300+ LCA and LCA like planes
=============
1000+

MiG21/23, Jaguar, Mirage will be phase out in future...
 

SATISH

DFI Technocrat
New Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
2,038
Likes
302
Country flag
For any Big nation its needed to have 3 Major kind of fighter planes
1. Heavy weight : F15, F22, Su27 Family, FGFA
2. Medium role (twin engine) : F18, EFT, MiG29 family
3. Light weight : Grippen, F16, J10s

IAF will have FGFA, MKI in 1st category, MMRCA and AMCA in second, the third will be filled by LCA.. So if we go by number IAF need at least 300+ planes in light weight category, and in near future I don see any other light weight fighter which will fill this gap.

300+ MKI
200+ FGFA
130+ MMRCA
100+ MiG29/35
100+ AMCA (if roll out)
300+ LCA and LCA like planes
=============
1000+

MiG21/23, Jaguar, Mirage will be phase out in future...
Why do you want to phase out the Mirage 2000 after it is being upgraded to dash 9 standards? It is as good as any other contemporary fighters that our rivals are feilding. And F 16 is no longer a light weight fighter, it is a full fledged medium sized fighter falling into the 15 ton category. According to me Jaguar must be replaced sooner than Mirages.
 

smartindian

New Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
614
Likes
59
Country flag
For any Big nation its needed to have 3 Major kind of fighter planes
1. Heavy weight : F15, F22, Su27 Family, FGFA
2. Medium role (twin engine) : F18, EFT, MiG29 family
3. Light weight : Grippen, F16, J10s

IAF will have FGFA, MKI in 1st category, MMRCA and AMCA in second, the third will be filled by LCA.. So if we go by number IAF need at least 300+ planes in light weight category, and in near future I don see any other light weight fighter which will fill this gap.

300+ MKI
200+ FGFA
130+ MMRCA
100+ MiG29/35
100+ AMCA (if roll out)
300+ LCA and LCA like planes
=============
1000+

MiG21/23, Jaguar, Mirage will be phase out in future...
but India likely to have 42 squadrons, it means about 840 planes, we cannot have 1000+ fighter planes
 

jatkshatriya

New Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
244
Likes
30
but India likely to have 42 squadrons, it means about 840 planes, we cannot have 1000+ fighter planes
well we shud have 1500 planes..it will be great....1 for PAF and 1499 for the chinese..lol
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sneha_sharma

New Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
12
Likes
3
When We have threat from Paksitan and china at same time, 42 squad will not be adequate. 42 sqad will be enough to defend India but not win the war. To win the war we need to have 1000+ fighter planes. when we can make good LCA (MK2, 95KN, AESA) why not fill the gap.


Remember China has 1000+ MiG21 type of planes... Numerical supremacy is not bad.. 4 LCA can surely kill one Su27 (J11)

Remember "रुश्तमे हिंद कहते है शेर को, धोके मे कुत्ते भी काटते है शेर को|" so even 4 LCA can beat 1 Su27.. ;)

China had 1000+ MiG21 type of plane, they filled there armory with cheap J7. They have assembly line of J10B. They can produce 100s of J10s to get the numerical advantage.

same way Pakistan can make JF17 , may be 500+. So counter them we need to fill our Air force with LCA and MCA(if produced). India should have 500+ LCA so that each LCA can match each PAF JF17 or F16.... One to one mapping...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SATISH

DFI Technocrat
New Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
2,038
Likes
302
Country flag
When We have threat from Paksitan and china at same time, 42 squad will not be adequate. 42 sqad will be enough to defend India but not win the war. To win the war we need to have 1000+ fighter planes. when we can make good LCA (MK2, 95KN, AESA) why not fill the gap.


Remember China has 1000+ MiG21 type of planes... Numerical supremacy is not bad.. 4 LCA can surely kill one Su27 (J11)

Remember "रुश्तमे हिंद कहते है शेर को, धोके मे कुत्ते भी काटते है शेर को|" so even 4 LCA can beat 1 Su27.. ;)

China had 1000+ MiG21 type of plane, they filled there armory with cheap J7. They have assembly line of J10B. They can produce 100s of J10s to get the numerical advantage.

same way Pakistan can make JF17 , may be 500+. So counter them we need to fill our Air force with LCA and MCA(if produced). India should have 500+ LCA so that each LCA can match each PAF JF17 or F16.... One to one mapping...
Well milady...42 squadrons are more than enough for taking care of our defensive needs. You are forgetting how difficult it is to produce that many aircrafts with sophisticated machinery inside. It will eat us out. Our economy is not as strong as you presume it to be.

Well 40 LCA is the initial order and the order will grow. Don't worry.

Getting aircrafts is easy but having a maintainance crew and pilots to fly it is a bit hard to find these days. You know IAF is short of pilots?
 

blade

New Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
154
Likes
16
..............................................................................
 
Last edited:

blade

New Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
154
Likes
16
Its been some time that i see people keep talking about 1000+ fighter for IAF to counter both pakistan & china with some sort of offensive purpose being also achieved.Anyway let me explain it little bit. lets consider France for a while. In terms of numbers a very moderate force indeed,about 300 dedicated multirole/air superiority fighters are forming the offensive capability.It fields only 4 AWACS (E-3F) plus 2 ELINT craft C-160G gabriel.Overall very moderate indeed.Afterall after a few years even pakistan will have more awacs than france!!! Now if for the time being we replace India by France geographically we get a very interesting situation.Suppose a war breaks out where france is facing both pakistan & china together only in the air.Lets keep army and navy out of this to simplify the case.IF the air battle continues for around 6 month with france fielding all its anti aircraft missiles backed by highly sophisticated electronic counter measure and counter counter measure equipments then by the fall of the 6 th month pakistan will decide to close down its air wing permanently as it will appear like a joke to them where as china will wonder did they really think that they are just about to catch up USA to become the next super power.IF french air force decides to play just a denial role to chinese airforce then chinese will simply have no chance to even finger the french aero space.There will hardly be any smacking hair raising air battle.All will be played on electronic plat form.All chinese air raids will be picked much before they are anywhere near to the border.Even older generation M-2000 s will appear like some very high tech toy by killing dozens of chinese birds.I know many of my friends will oppose to what i am saying here, well rather than myself trying to explain more on this i will leave this part on the experts of this forum.Just remember what can a medium standard up gradation can do to an old machine like mig 21.Trust me france can simply do much more than that.
Now lets discuss a few general things about fighter jets. Aerodynamic features of any fighter is no doubt a very important aspect but they are no longer the ultimate factor to decide the winner in any air battle.These days many countries are doing almost as well as USA in this field but still USA is light years ahead when it comes to winning a air battle with minimum loss.The mirages that france sold to taiwan are of dash 5 standard. They are said to be the closest to the french used mirages, but still they are no match for a normal old M-2000D is fielded by france. ITs only electronics every where.Its about accuracy of electronic data accumulation.And where it matters the most the other countries fall far behind yet boasting off being equal in making radar this and that. USA can take care of the rest of the world with around 1000 JF -17 once they are fitted with their radar with little bit of redesigning of the jet nose,fitted with some customized engine which will super cruise and a f 22 EW suit. Enough to handle anything that the rest of the planet can field.
We really dont need a very big airforce to defeat china.Lets them have thousands of mig 21/19 with low to mid level upgradation.All we need is supremacy in electronics.Soviets always tried to counter superior US compact electronic technology by superior aerodynamic but at the end they were no where close to it.MIG 29 is indeed superior to F-16 in many aerodynamic features but u know the real time scores.Its not just poor fighting skill that caused this.
In case of india we will have one more challenge to meet.It will be the very vast aero space that is to be protected and we dont need many fighters for that rather a very potent EARLY WARNING cluster will do the needful where as the location of the air bases will have to chosen with utmost prudence so that the total covering area can be maximized by cutting down over lapping.We need inhouse electronics tech to grow. This will have multifarious application bringing nation billions of dollars in form of other business where as augmenting our national security as well.The more u get sophistication of avionics the lesser number of jets will be needed in the future.So rather than only working very hard on new fighter we should concentrate more on electronics and more share of fund should be pushed in to these projects.Then even average jets can do wonder for us.
 
Last edited:

warriorextreme

New Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
1,871
Likes
3,052
Country flag
yes we should build huge numbers of LCA mk2 but they need pilots to fly them and pilots are not made overnight..
we should also work on training pilots as we are short of 600 pilots as of now
 

The Messiah

Bow Before Me!
New Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
10,809
Likes
4,619
When We have threat from Paksitan and china at same time, 42 squad will not be adequate. 42 sqad will be enough to defend India but not win the war. To win the war we need to have 1000+ fighter planes. when we can make good LCA (MK2, 95KN, AESA) why not fill the gap.


Remember China has 1000+ MiG21 type of planes... Numerical supremacy is not bad.. 4 LCA can surely kill one Su27 (J11)

Remember "रुश्तमे हिंद कहते है शेर को, धोके मे कुत्ते भी काटते है शेर को|" so even 4 LCA can beat 1 Su27.. ;)

China had 1000+ MiG21 type of plane, they filled there armory with cheap J7. They have assembly line of J10B. They can produce 100s of J10s to get the numerical advantage.

same way Pakistan can make JF17 , may be 500+. So counter them we need to fill our Air force with LCA and MCA(if produced). India should have 500+ LCA so that each LCA can match each PAF JF17 or F16.... One to one mapping...
Having more planes is well and good but we should also have pilots of fly them.

As it is even now we dont have sufficient no of pilots in air force according to IAF.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Articles

Top