ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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Pandora

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Reminder for all those who thought JF17 Blunder is bigger than Tejas.

OH since when ,jf17 bunder become quadruplex full fly by wire?
The flight control system (FCS) comprises conventional controls with stability augmentation in the yaw and roll axis and a digital fly-by-wire(FBW) system in the pitch axis.
 

tharun

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OH since when ,jf17 bunder become quadruplex full fly by wire?
The flight control system (FCS) comprises conventional controls with stability augmentation in the yaw and roll axis and a digital fly-by-wire(FBW) system in the pitch axis.
There are lots of questions on jf-17 including it's fly-by-wire and combat radius
 

vayuu1

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I congratulated both Mr pm and Mr dm on the induction of tejas and told them the real game changer would be ojas (that's the name I have given to AMCA ) and told them that I hope to see both ojas and tejas soon in the near future.

Chak De India
 

rohit b3

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Reminder for all those who thought JF17 Blunder is bigger than Tejas.

Thought it was a joke.
But JF-17 has "Quadruplux redundant Digital FBW and open system architecture and avionics"?
Tejas's empty weight is 7070 kgs?
Tejas can do a maximum of only -3G ? Not -3.5G?
 

tejas warrior

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The LCA NP2 is equipped with an arrestor hook to enable the aircraft to stop within a distance of 90 meters on engagement with the Arrestor Cable. Initially, the Arresting Activity will be done on a replicated arresting Engine at Shore Based Test Facility in Goa and thereafter on a Ship Deck, most likely on the INS Vikramaditya.
Full Behind the Scenes Gallery: http://gallery.tejas.gov.in/Gallery/Behind-the-Scenes/
#LCANavy #Tejas_LCA

FB_IMG_1467632441020.jpg
 

ersakthivel

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Seems like the Mods don't want to have this talk here. I may be wrong about it but it would make sense to play safe and have another thread for all the expectations and hopes from LCA variants.

Request anybody interested to open a new thread. I promise I will be an active participant of it. Just don't like to lead personally (unless I am alone :p). Wish I could speak freely, I do wish to reply to quite a few items.

BTW @ersakthivel I am not wrong on facts, you are too quick on the trigger. Between an LCA and J-10, I would want IAF pilots to be in an LCA during merge. But force-fitting the deployability of these 2 aircrafts, to a mere red corner pehlwan vs. blue corner pehlwan is too simplistic. If it was so easy then an IAF-PLAAF duel could easily have been settled by a computer game playoff. Why to bother with such big national projects at all.
I know about subsonic Hf 24 maruts scalping super sonic F-104 star fighters, anything can happen in an air combat.

But tejas has enough stuff in it is my argument, As J-10 may have it strong points, tejas too has some,

just read the USAF F-35 pilot interview in which he says that he will use the strengths of his F-35 & weakness of the opposing enemy 5th gen stealths in a close combat.

Same goes here.

tejas is a clean sheet design, & corrected along the way by continuous pilot inputs,

What has been proved is the basic soundness of its airframe design .

Addition of MAWS, EW suit, IRST , ASEA will only add further teeth & make it more deadly,

Here the dead weight in the ballast coming around 350 KG will be removed & all these items can be added without affecting aerodynamic strengths.

But whatever we add later we can not alter the airframe's aerodynamics.

In aerodynamics my view is tejas is second to none as far as fighters in its class,

And coming at such a low price & taking the base level of IAF closer to F-16 tech, it is a real boon in high numbers.

It is this high numbers that will put the fear of God in enemy's mind, & makes it a peace maker of south asia.

In any simulation or real fight numbers are crucial.
 

tejas warrior

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Taking forward the Tejas



By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 5th July 16


Over the preceding decade, under-informed defence writers and commentators have made careers out of bad-mouthing India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). The commentary focused primarily on development delays, criticized the fighter’s performance and sneered at the under-funded, under-staffed Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), a Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) agency responsible for the Tejas programme. Regrettably, the Indian Air Force (IAF) colluded in undermining ADA, passing on tidbits to the media in order to show the Tejas in a poor light, apparently to clear the way for importing expensive aircraft. Thanks to this, most Indians came to regard the Tejas as a byword for delay, incompetence and the untrustworthiness of the DRDO. Most Indians concluded that the purchase of exorbitantly priced foreign aircraft like the French Rafale was unavoidable to keep India safe.

These critics have now done an about-turn after Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar inducted the first two production version Tejas Mark I fighters on Saturday into the IAF’s first operational Tejas squadron (45 Squadron). In January, the Tejas made its foreign debut, performing well-received aerobatics displays at the Bahrain international Air Show. Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, a steady hand at the IAF’s tiller, has supported the Tejas and committed to ordering 100 Tejas Mark 1A fighters --- similar to the current version, except for four specified improvements. Test pilots involved in the Tejas’ flight-testing had always praised its performance and reliability, but now there is also praise from the IAF. Group Captain Madhav Rangachari, the 45 Squadron chief who flew the Tejas on Saturday, reportedly observed afterwards: "I felt like being on top of the world when flying the Tejas fighter. It’s an excellent aircraft and a generation ahead of other fighters in the world.”

That nobody has contradicted Rangachari is a measure of how effusive the media has suddenly become in reporting this story. It needs to be pointed out that the Tejas is not “a generation ahead of other fighters”; it is a contemporary fighter, with several features that match the “best-in-class”, while others still require improvement. Even so, the most astounding achievement of the Tejas project is the development of a fourth-generation fighter and a respectable aerospace development, production and testing eco-system in India for the pittance of Rs 14,047 crore, just over $2 billion. This was done in the face of intensified international technology sanctions since the 1998 nuclear tests and, as discussed above, amidst media and IAF hostility.

The operationalization of the Tejas has not taken “over three decades” as critics dishonestly maintain. They incorrectly cite August 22, 1983 as the start of the Tejas project, when the government allocated Rs 560 crore for “feasibility studies and project definition”. In fact, it took another decade, until April 1993, when the defence ministry sanctioned the “Full Scale Engineering Development” (FSED) of the Tejas, and provided funds to build two fighters as “technology demonstrators”.

Taking April 1993 as the start of the Tejas development programme, the timeline suddenly looks more respectable. It took just eight years for the Tejas’ first flight in 2001; 20 years for initial operational clearance in 2013, and 23 years for final operational clearance and induction into IAF service. The significantly more capable Tejas Mark IA is expected to be completed by 2018 to meet standards that four agencies --- the defence ministry, IAF, ADA, and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), which builds the fighter --- have hammered out between them, to make the Tejas clearly more capable than current enemy fighters. If that deadline is met, the Tejas will have taken exactly a quarter century in development. That is a creditable record for building a first fighter.

The improved Tejas Mark IA will have an AESA radar, which the DRDO-HAL combine proposes to build in partnership with Israeli company Elbit. It will be capable of air-to-air refueling to increase range and combat endurance. It will also have a “self-protection jammer” (SPJ) mounted in an external pod to confuse enemy radar. Finally, it will have an improved layout of internal systems to ease maintenance and allow rapid “turnaround time”, i.e. the quickness with which the Tejas can leave on a fresh mission after returning from an earlier one.

The IAF has already detailed the Tejas’ performance parameters, announcing: “The LCA has a very competitive and cotemporary operational envelope. It is capable of operations up to an altitude of 50,000 feet and a maximum speed of 1.6 Mach at [high] altitudes or 730 knots… at low levels. The aircraft [can turn at] +8G to -2.5G (which allows it to U-turn in 350 metres) in operationally clean configuration… or +6G to -2.5G with other external stores.” This respectable performance envelope will be further enhanced when the Tejas IA enters service. It is, therefore, incorrect to suggest, as some commentators and editorial writers have done, that only the import of fighters like the Rafale would give the IAF an operational edge. Directing those billions into the Tejas programme instead would be a more sensible course.

Even as the Tejas Mark IA is being developed,ADA is working on the Tejas Mark II. The key enhancement in that will be the replacement of the current General Electric F-404 engine with the larger, more powerful GE F-414 engine. The technological challenge --- which is to re-engineer the Mark I fuselage to fit in the bulkier F-414 --- would be offset by the Mark II’s greater power. The re-engineering would also provide the opportunity to replace the current generation of avionics with enhanced, new-generation avionics. Realistically, the Mark II can be expected to enter service by 2023-24, until when HAL can build the 100 Mark IA fighters that the IAF has committed to buying.

Supporting ADA through this programme is essential. That agency is simultaneously working on an Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), which will be a fifth-generation fighter with stealth features, and incorporating an advanced engine that will allow it to supercruise (fly at supersonic speed without lighting the fuel-guzzling afterburner). To enable and empower this project, it is essential to quickly conclude the contract with Russia to co-develop the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) that has been mired in negotiations for a decade. The FGFA experience would provide Indian aeronautical engineers the knowhow and experience in working on fifth-generation technologies, which would be translated into the AMCA.


The area of concern, which the defence ministry needs to address on priority, is to ensure that HAL builds the Tejas Mark I and Mark IA at a rate of 12-16 fighters per year. That would allow the IAF to conduct operational planning, obtain buy-in from that service, and translate the Tejas from a debutante into a real combat asset.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2016/07/taking-forward-tejas.html?m=1
 

AnantS

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The thick wire passing through Left Rudder Pedal feels awkward though
 

Prashant12

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Large numbers matter

The critics of home-grown Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas might be struggling to chart a new flight path for their future assault. With the euphoria over the induction of the first Tejas Squadron continuing, some of the fieriest critics have already switched sides. After all, success breeds success.


After waiting in the wing for over 15 years since its first flight, the Indian Air Force (IAF) finally inducted two Tejas fighters on July 1, signalling the beginning of a new era in country’s military aviation. The No. 45 Squadron of the IAF (Flying Daggers) would be based in Bengaluru for the next two years, fine-tuning all aspects of flying, ground-handling and repair of a new fighter plane.

Having chased Tejas for nearly a quarter of century as a defence writer, it was a great moment of pride to see Group Captain Rangachari taking the bird for the first official sortie in IAF colours. The long wait has finally ended and Tejas has flown into IAF hangars. The onus now completely shifts to Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) to produce it in large numbers and Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) to fasten the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) process. Those who saw ADA-HAL relationship from close quarters would agree that both should now look at Tejas through the eyes of IAF. This shift in focus and thought process would propel the project ahead.

For the project from here on, it’s all about numbers. As per the current plan, the next 18 production variants should be delivered to IAF by 2018 to form the full squadron. Many firmly believe that unless HAL gets more firm orders, the private sector wouldn’t join hands. The HAL says that by ramping up its infrastructure, production rate would increase and they would deliver 120 aircraft by 2025.

But IAF’s worries are far from over. They do not want to brand Tejas Squadron as a two-plane unit. They are keen to have the follow-on planes at the earliest. They want two more planes by Air Force Day celebrations at Hindon this year. HAL says they have brought down the equipping cycle from 32 months to eight months, a pointer to its commitment to the national programme.

Next six months are crucial for ADA as they prepare Tejas for a series of missions to fulfill the full operational capability (FOC) parameters. The pending milestones include: air-to-air refueling capability; integration of GSH 23 mm gun, a tandem pylon to enhance bomb carriage capability; integration of BVRAAM (Beyond Visual Range Air to Air Missile) and finally expansion of aircraft envelope for higher Angles of Attack-cum-improved manoeuvring.

While the work is in progress at different stages to undertake these missions, it’s not sure whether HAL-ADA-NFTC (National Flight Test Centre) combine would complete these in six months. If not, the FOC would get extended by another three months. However, while the FOC may be in the early part of 2017, the structural build standard of the aircraft would be frozen by end of this year. This is critical for HAL to plan the build of the second 20 aircraft.

The FOC-variants would join IAF after the first 20 is delivered in the Initial Operational Clearance format. But IAF would now test the ability of HAL-ADA to quickly incorporate their feedback on to new Tejas production variants. Before the Squadron moves to its permanent base in Sulur by 2018, the IAF ground crew would work in close liaison with HAL fine-tuning their skills based on pilot feedback. Product support becomes a key factor for Tejas’ Squadron operations now.

So what have we learnt from the Tejas story so far? The biggest one could be the self belief in developing a whole range of enabling technologies for a fighter. We developed technologies that were denied. Lessons from Sanctions came as a big boost to scientists and engineers, as they challenged themselves. It opened new window of opportunities.

Locally developed technologies
The fly-by-wire flight Control Laws (CLAW) developed jointly by ADA and National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) for Tejas is an ideal example to cite. The Digital Flight Control Computer (DFCC) from Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) is another critical system we developed. Hardware and software of the complete avionics suite of Tejas was locally developed. Taking the challenges head on was the key.

There has been earlier a lament that the user changed the requirements thus delaying the programme. However, as brought out by the current head of ADA, the aircraft is ‘future ready’ and changes in weapons and sensors would be incorporated with minimal effort.

This is considered a big plus in the aircraft and systems capability. The IAF must now aggressively brand Tejas at global platforms, like other Air Forces do. Similar to what India did at Bahrain this year, Tejas and its capabilities should be showcased to the world more often, signalling our military might.

The private sector is waiting with eagerness to join the Tejas party, hoping to get a larger share of fighter production. The Make in India mantra could spring the desired magic if the government comes out with an out-of-the-box idea to enable HAL to deliver Tejas at faster rate.

The HAL will need industry best practices and the world’s best programme management to achieve this. Kota Harinarayana, revered as the father of Tejas project, wants a strong team closely working with the Tejas Squadron.

Moving ahead, unity is the key for the Tejas project. Jointness is a word often used among Services these days. Time HAL-ADA-IAF and other stakeholders gave ‘jointness’ a new meaning. Tejas is late. But it is light and lethal. And, it has arrived!

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/556022/large-numbers-matter.html
 

HariPrasad-1

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I know about subsonic Hf 24 maruts scalping super sonic F-104 star fighters, anything can happen in an air combat.

But tejas has enough stuff in it is my argument, As J-10 may have it strong points, tejas too has some,

just read the USAF F-35 pilot interview in which he says that he will use the strengths of his F-35 & weakness of the opposing enemy 5th gen stealths in a close combat.

Same goes here.

tejas is a clean sheet design, & corrected along the way by continuous pilot inputs,

What has been proved is the basic soundness of its airframe design .

Addition of MAWS, EW suit, IRST , ASEA will only add further teeth & make it more deadly,

Here the dead weight in the ballast coming around 350 KG will be removed & all these items can be added without affecting aerodynamic strengths.

But whatever we add later we can not alter the airframe's aerodynamics.

In aerodynamics my view is tejas is second to none as far as fighters in its class,

And coming at such a low price & taking the base level of IAF closer to F-16 tech, it is a real boon in high numbers.

It is this high numbers that will put the fear of God in enemy's mind, & makes it a peace maker of south asia.

In any simulation or real fight numbers are crucial.
J 10 is an aerodynamic disaster. It uses a most powerful Russian engine but still it performance very badly. Put aside everything and look at the air show performance for a while. It takes almost 20 second to fly. Its turn rate is very poor so as other timing of loops. It looks ugly and have poor aerodynamic. Had India used this engine, Our plane would have been carrying atleast 7 tons of load. Gripen E has 98 KN engine and it carries 5.5 ton. Tejas MK2 is supposed to carry minimum 5 tons. Gripen NG with GE 414 EPE is supposed to carry 7 tons. They can maneuver like anything with a lot more weaker engine. On other hand this junk has 130 KN + engine but yet it performs very badly on each and every parameter. 5 (Declared figure) have fallen down last year. 4 in previous to last year. Nakal mai akkal nahi hoti. Kota Harinarayan had rightly said that China can not make a plane like tejas. We have bridged the gap with Europe. China can copy russian and American stuff to make some junk like whole J series. They do not have the guts to make something like tejas.
 

tejas warrior

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Old cockpit:



New cockpit



The cockpit seemed to have been further Improved(all wires seems to have been grouped in wire sleeves)
in the picture posted by @tejas warrior
Now Compare this new Tejas cockpit with Cockpit of Big Daddy (Below) after upgrade by Samtel.. Lots of Dials/Clocks on Su30 cockpit but Tejas has all MFDs !!

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/cockpits.47472/

SamtelMFD SU30_front.jpg


But JF17 Cockpit seems quite Advanced.. We must improve on this in Next series of Tejas Mk1A OR MK2.

cockpit4.jpg
 
Last edited:

Gessler

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Now Compare this new Tejas cockpit with Cockpit of Big Daddy (Below) after upgrade by Samtel.. Lots of Dials/Clocks on Su30 cockpit but Tejas has all MFDs !!

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/cockpits.47472/

View attachment 9238

But JF17 Cockpit seems quite Advanced.. We must improve on this in Next series of Tejas Mk1A OR MK2.

View attachment 9239
Yes, the MKI still retains a number of dials (analogue systems), while LCA relies pretty much entirely on digital equipment. A proper "glass cockpit".
 

AnantS

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Well Anlog systems are not bad. I wonder, how difficult would be to look at LCD's when direct sunlight is falling on them. Sure they would be great during night.
 

Gessler

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The LCA NP2 is equipped with an arrestor hook to enable the aircraft to stop within a distance of 90 meters on engagement with the Arrestor Cable. Initially, the Arresting Activity will be done on a replicated arresting Engine at Shore Based Test Facility in Goa and thereafter on a Ship Deck, most likely on the INS Vikramaditya.
Full Behind the Scenes Gallery: http://gallery.tejas.gov.in/Gallery/Behind-the-Scenes/
#LCANavy #Tejas_LCA

View attachment 9230
From the link - the pilot with his Elbit Targo HMDS.

 
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