ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Kunal Biswas]

IDRW`s does not publish news but their own assumption and theories ..

 

[BON PLAN]

Why India is replacing Russian R-73 Close combat air-to-air missile with Israeli Python-5 on LCA-Tejas

It’s more or less confirmed now that India’s Indigenously developed LCA-Tejas will enter operational service in Indian Air Force with Israeli supplied Python-5 has its Close Combat Air-to-Air missile (CCM) replacing Russian developed R-73 CCM has its Primary weapon of choice for Close-combat missile which was also the initial choice of Indian Air Force . R-73 CCM was first Air-to-Air missile which was successfully integrated and test fired from LCA-Tejas Pre-production aircraft nearly 6 years ago and had successfully completed its integration with the onboard Digital Stores Management System (SMS), Open Architecture Mission and Display Computer even before it achieved its Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) . Highly reliable sources close to idrw.org have confirmed to us that lack of cooperation from Russia in providing access to its source code and high price demanded in certifying it with Indo-Israeli Multi-Mode Fire control Radar (FCR) was one of the factors in the deal-breaker . IAF and DRDO were also convinced that Israeli Python-5 CCM offered superior performance to R-73 and could provide better integration with FCR of LCA-Tejas. Israeli-developed I-Derby Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM) was in operational service in India with recently retired Sea Harrier Jump Jets and later it was also selected as BVRAAM for LCA-Tejas which underwent successfully test firing from LCA-Tejas earlier this year . so it was decided that I-Derby and Python-5 Combo will be ideal Air-to-Air missiles for LCA-Tejas . Python-5 offered the off-boresight capability of greater than 90 degrees as compared to 60 degrees on the R-73 . Python-5 features both Lock-on After Launch (LOAL) and Lock on before Launch (LOBL) capability when compared to R-73 which only offered LOBL capabilities . Python-5 also offered improved IRCCM (Infrared counter-countermeasures) as a result of its dual-band Imaging Infra-red seeker. Israel already has offered its current I-Derby BVRAAM operators with newly revealed I-Derby ER ( Extended Range ) missile with the ability to hit the target at 100kms when compared to 60km plus offered by Previous Gen I-Derby which will require no major changes to aircraft FCR which is already been integrated with its older I-Derby BVRAAMs. India also plans to integrate its indigenously developed Astra BVRAAM at present undergoing developmental trials from sukhoi-30 MKI aircraft with LCA-Tejas in near future and also has plans to develop longer Astra-II with extended range .

..http://idrw.org . Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website , Kindly don http://idrw.org/india-replacing-rus...t-air-air-missile-israeli-python-5-lca-tejas/ .

IS THIS TRUE ?

I don't know if it is true, but it's not a bad thing to use differents high quality missiles when you have such a huge fleet.

For french or US for exemple, relying on 2 differents missiles only (MICA IR/Radar - AMRAAM/Sidewinter) is a risk : If an opponent find a way to decept one, you are in a bad situation.

 

[ersakthivel]

From 2003 to 2014 IAF has changed the ASR of ADA's AMCA 5th gen stealth fighter project three times, making sure the program never takes off,

meanwhile chinese bought the rejected Mig-1.44 5th gen stealth design(rejected in competition with the T-50, on which IAF has a long list of short comings also) and booted a couple of AL-31 engines and now brought it close to production.

All this hide & seek game by IAF in favor of the money guzzling rafale was allowed by senile, spineless buffoons of UPA era DMs because we all know how the first family ripped the nation in arms deal,

read above in "The Defence Dynasty" piece of "The Open" magazine.

SO our AMCA is running interminable "reshaping " rounds in NAL labs, & chinese 5th gen fighter is now under production!!!

If at all IAF adopted the prudent method of putting two K-9 engines & stealth bay in a scaled up tejas airframe design , we too would have been closer to prodution of AMCA,

The top of the line version sought by IAF can be produced as AMCA mk2 like the tejas mk2 effort.;

Tejas mk1 too faced a similar fate until rescued by manohar parrikar in the form of tejas mk1A in a series of 18 or so meetings he set up jointly with IAF-HAL-ADA.

if Parrikar didnto intervene personally tejas mk1 will do only combat duties in defence expos & like MBT Arjun is now being reduced to!!!

It was a pity that the country did not have a visionary PM like Modi & Manohar Parrikar in 2003, which has set India a decade behind in the prestigious stealth race!!!

 

[Rahul Singh]

I don't know if it is true, but it's not a bad thing to use differents high quality missiles when you have such a huge fleet.

For french or US for exemple, relying on 2 differents missiles only (MICA IR/Radar - AMRAAM/Sidewinter) is a risk : If an opponent find a way to decept one, you are in a bad situation.

Well, its true. It is known since long time that Tejas AAM package will be Indo-Isreali only. Soon rest of fleet (SU-30 MKI) will follow same. I am guessing Rafale deal is flexible enough for us to integrate ASRTA BVRAAM. If that is the case then soon we will standardize on system only.

DM is already saying that after 5 years from now, we will import no more missiles.

 

[ersakthivel]

At this stage HAL is giving weight reduction figure for tejas mk1A ,after consultation with EADS for the naval tejas's landing gear weight reduction experience, Not some wild guess,

Even with all the extra weights on board tejas mk1 reached the top of the vertical loop in bahrain airshow in 7 to 8 seconds, far better than any other 4.5th gen single engined fighter ever demonstrated!!!

Add DRFM based ASEA jammer , Ew suit, ASEA radar in tejas mk1A , it will be an awesome fighter even without any weight reduction.

It is the navy that needs mk2 for carrier operations, As far as IAF is concerned tejas mk1A itself will exceed the many times revised ASR , given to ADA , especially the savings of 500 kg weight in landing gear area will lead to a power to weight ratio better than any other single engined fighter 4.5th gen RSS fly by wire fighter in the world,

gripen C has lesser power to weight ratio than tejas mk1 & In the same way gripen E will have lesser power to weight ration than whatever tejas mk2 will have ,,,,

Even with 300 Kg extra weight telemetry equipments on board the supposedly "over weight , lesser length" tejas mk1 was able to pull itself to the top of the vertical loop in seven to eight seconds, prompting manohar parrikar to openly praise tejas for its top of the line turn rates,


The "overweight", "under length", "ADA passtime" tejas mk1 with extra 300 Kg telemetry gear, reached the top of the vertical loop in 7 to 8 seconds in 2016 bahrain airshow,

It will be more than enough for IAF tejas mk1 & mk1A any future close combat,

Extra weight or not, what counts in close combat , is the combat turn rates in corner velocity , nothig else, no top speed , etc, etc. So no worry for any IAF tejas pilot on that count, He can take the battle to vertical plane and dictate terms in the close combat,

It is only going to get better when the 300 Kg telemetry gear is removed in SP versions, and further weight reduction is done in tejas mk1A.

Even with the "extra one ton" weight tejas mk1 carries the same weapon load as that of gripen C & tejas mk2 will also have the same weapon load of Gripen E, and what is more due to its fabulously low wing loading(lowest among all combat aircrafts in the world) it will do exceptionally well in high altitude battle fields like Himalyas , which are the most critical areas to be defended by IAF,

It can take off & land with meaningful combat load in any make shift air strip in Himalayas with meaningful load, & do exceptionally agile close combat to defend the himalayn airspace, better than any high wing loading "Airshow beauties" ever can . These high wingloding airshow beauties will need extra weight thrust vectoring to compensate in high himalayn altitude, which no single engined 4.5th gen fighter ever has,

Even with thrust vectoring tejas mk1 will lead them in pure kinematics in high altitude

Only in ground level these "high wing loading" Airshow beauties can pull of terrific dance moves, As altitude gets higher they can barely turn , because there is not enough dense air to generate lift in high Himalayn battle fields,, the strategic frontier of india,

No MNC will turn out a cost effective fighter, for IAF , that is tailored especially for the high Himalayan air space, only "pass time, lazies" of ADA can do it for IAF,

 

[HariPrasad-1]

At this stage HAL is giving weight reduction figure for tejas mk1A ,after consultation with EADS for the naval tejas's landing gear weight reduction experience, Not some wild guess,

Even with all the extra weights on board tejas mk1 reached the top of the vertical loop in bahrain airshow in 7 to 8 seconds, far better than any other 4.5th gen single engined fighter ever demonstrated!!!

Add DRFM based ASEA jammer , Ew suit, ASEA radar in tejas mk1A , it will be an awesome fighter even without any weight reduction.

It is the navy that needs mk2 for carrier operations, As far as IAF is concerned tejas mk1A itself will exceed the many times revised ASR , given to ADA , especially the savings of 500 kg weight in landing gear area will lead to a power to weight ratio better than any other single engined fighter 4.5th gen RSS fly by wire fighter in the world,

gripen C has lesser power to weight ratio than tejas mk1 & In the same way gripen E will have lesser power to weight ration than whatever tejas mk2 will have ,,,,

Even with 300 Kg extra weight telemetry equipments on board the supposedly "over weight , lesser length" tejas mk1 was able to pull itself to the top of the vertical loop in seven to eight seconds, prompting manohar parrikar to openly praise tejas for its top of the line turn rates,


The "overweight", "under length", "ADA passtime" tejas mk1 with extra 300 Kg telemetry gear, reached the top of the vertical loop in 7 to 8 seconds in 2016 bahrain airshow,

It will be more than enough for IAF tejas mk1 & mk1A any future close combat,

Extra weight or not, what counts in close combat , is the combat turn rates in corner velocity , nothig else, no top speed , etc, etc. So no worry for any IAF tejas pilot on that count, He can take the battle to vertical plane and dictate terms in the close combat,

It is only going to get better when the 300 Kg telemetry gear is removed in SP versions, and further weight reduction is done in tejas mk1A.

Even with the "extra one ton" weight tejas mk1 carries the same weapon load as that of gripen C & tejas mk2 will also have the same weapon load of Gripen E, and what is more due to its fabulously low wing loading(lowest among all combat aircrafts in the world) it will do exceptionally well in high altitude battle fields like Himalyas , which are the most critical areas to be defended by IAF,

It can take off & land with meaningful combat load in any make shift air strip in Himalayas with meaningful load, & do exceptionally agile close combat to defend the himalayn airspace, better than any high wing loading "Airshow beauties" ever can . These high wingloding airshow beauties will need extra weight thrust vectoring to compensate in high himalayn altitude, which no single engined 4.5th gen fighter ever has,

Even with thrust vectoring tejas mk1 will lead them in pure kinematics in high altitude

Only in ground level these "high wing loading" Airshow beauties can pull of terrific dance moves, As altitude gets higher they can barely turn , because there is not enough dense air to generate lift in high Himalayn battle fields,, the strategic frontier of india,

No MNC will turn out a cost effective fighter, for IAF , that is tailored especially for the high Himalayan air space, only "pass time, lazies" of ADA can do it for IAF,

This is really great. What you forgot to mention is the 8% Aerodynamic improvement which is going to increase transsonic acceleration by 20% and top speed by 2%. Additional space is going to accommodate 60 KG extra fuel. Weight reduction along with aerodynamic improvement should give tejas some serious @$$ kicking ability. In his simulation study, Vivek Ahuja had said that any weight reduction in tejas from this level would give tejas a big rise in its performance. 500 KG is about 7+% weight reduction and I believe that tejas shall be an all togather a different aircraft. much better in performance, more agile and more maneuverable.

 

[Kyubi]

I don't know if it is true, but it's not a bad thing to use differents high quality missiles when you have such a huge fleet.

For french or US for exemple, relying on 2 differents missiles only (MICA IR/Radar - AMRAAM/Sidewinter) is a risk : If an opponent find a way to decept one, you are in a bad situation.

It is true, about R73 missile I had posted it couple of months back ..

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[tejas warrior]

At this stage HAL is giving weight reduction figure for tejas mk1A ,after consultation with EADS for the naval tejas's landing gear weight reduction experience, Not some wild guess,

Even with all the extra weights on board tejas mk1 reached the top of the vertical loop in bahrain airshow in 7 to 8 seconds, far better than any other 4.5th gen single engined fighter ever demonstrated!!!

Add DRFM based ASEA jammer , Ew suit, ASEA radar in tejas mk1A , it will be an awesome fighter even without any weight reduction.

It is the navy that needs mk2 for carrier operations, As far as IAF is concerned tejas mk1A itself will exceed the many times revised ASR , given to ADA , especially the savings of 500 kg weight in landing gear area will lead to a power to weight ratio better than any other single engined fighter 4.5th gen RSS fly by wire fighter in the world,

gripen C has lesser power to weight ratio than tejas mk1 & In the same way gripen E will have lesser power to weight ration than whatever tejas mk2 will have ,,,,

Even with 300 Kg extra weight telemetry equipments on board the supposedly "over weight , lesser length" tejas mk1 was able to pull itself to the top of the vertical loop in seven to eight seconds, prompting manohar parrikar to openly praise tejas for its top of the line turn rates,


The "overweight", "under length", "ADA passtime" tejas mk1 with extra 300 Kg telemetry gear, reached the top of the vertical loop in 7 to 8 seconds in 2016 bahrain airshow,

It will be more than enough for IAF tejas mk1 & mk1A any future close combat,

Extra weight or not, what counts in close combat , is the combat turn rates in corner velocity , nothig else, no top speed , etc, etc. So no worry for any IAF tejas pilot on that count, He can take the battle to vertical plane and dictate terms in the close combat,

It is only going to get better when the 300 Kg telemetry gear is removed in SP versions, and further weight reduction is done in tejas mk1A.

Even with the "extra one ton" weight tejas mk1 carries the same weapon load as that of gripen C & tejas mk2 will also have the same weapon load of Gripen E, and what is more due to its fabulously low wing loading(lowest among all combat aircrafts in the world) it will do exceptionally well in high altitude battle fields like Himalyas , which are the most critical areas to be defended by IAF,

It can take off & land with meaningful combat load in any make shift air strip in Himalayas with meaningful load, & do exceptionally agile close combat to defend the himalayn airspace, better than any high wing loading "Airshow beauties" ever can . These high wingloding airshow beauties will need extra weight thrust vectoring to compensate in high himalayn altitude, which no single engined 4.5th gen fighter ever has,

Even with thrust vectoring tejas mk1 will lead them in pure kinematics in high altitude

Only in ground level these "high wing loading" Airshow beauties can pull of terrific dance moves, As altitude gets higher they can barely turn , because there is not enough dense air to generate lift in high Himalayn battle fields,, the strategic frontier of india,

No MNC will turn out a cost effective fighter, for IAF , that is tailored especially for the high Himalayan air space, only "pass time, lazies" of ADA can do it for IAF,

Only question is, technically how much weight can be reduced by ADA/HAL from Tejas-MK1 ? Saurav jha has twitted, 500-1000 kg weight reduction is out of question.

 

[ersakthivel]

Only question is, technically how much weight can be reduced by ADA/HAL from Tejas-MK1 ? Saurav jha has twitted, 500-1000 kg weight reduction is out of question.

remains to be seen when it is finished, estimates vasry between 300 Kg to 500 Kg, and some are not sure of it even this,
But even without weight reduction I dont see tejas mk1 A lacking in close combat if we go by bahrain airshow videos

 

[Zebra]

Only question is, technically how much weight can be reduced by ADA/HAL from Tejas-MK1 ? Saurav jha has twitted, 500-1000 kg weight reduction is out of question.

Parts made by 3D printing won't help.....?

 

[tejas warrior]

It's June.. let's see when we hear of SP3 making her first flight !!

HAL needs to make them fast.. As long as current RM is there, lines will not be left ideal after making 20. If there's any delays in MK1-A, he will ask IAF to order more mk1 itself.. be it trainer or fighter.

 

[Anikastha]

Do we have missile warning system on our birds?
I read somewhere su-30 mki lacks that.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk

 

[pmaitra]

@gadeshi, @manutdfan, @sasum, (in alphabetical order) please avoid responding to each other.

@Zebra, and others, please resist the urge to bring politics into this thread.

 

[su35]

Do we have missile warning system on our birds?
I read somewhere su-30 mki lacks that.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk

NO su 30mki has Missile warning system and Radar warning system called Tarang developed by India

 

[sasum]

But even without weight reduction I dont see tejas mk1 A lacking in close combat if we go by bahrain airshow videos

During Bahrain Airshow, Tejas was without the load of armaments and drop-tanks.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

remains to be seen when it is finished, estimates vasry between 300 Kg to 500 Kg, and some are not sure of it even this,
But even without weight reduction I dont see tejas mk1 A lacking in close combat if we go by bahrain airshow videos

This plane is improving very fast. This was even recognized by Air force chief naik. With few more improvements, it will be an awesome plane in couple of years from now. 21.5 second for verticle loop timing is achieved. If we can reach 20 second, it will be at par with the best. AOA and g limits continues to improve. We must work out a plan for continual improvement and I am sure that it will improve a lot with the passage of time like all other aircrafts like , F 16, Mig 29 and 35, Gripen etc.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

It's June.. let's see when we hear of SP3 making her first flight !!

HAL needs to make them fast.. As long as current RM is there, lines will not be left ideal after making 20. If there's any delays in MK1-A, he will ask IAF to order more mk1 itself.. be it trainer or fighter.

I think Parrikar should order 300 KG weight reduction in Mk1A and 50 kg every squadron subsequently until weight reaches 5800 KG. There are lots of areas where the weight can be reduced. They are removing of dead weight, Landing gear, More composite, Merging of LRUS. new light weight more rigid wings, Structural optimization, less numbers of rivets etc, etc.

 

[tejas warrior]

I think Parrikar should order 300 KG weight reduction in Mk1A and 50 kg every squadron subsequently until weight reaches 5800 KG. There are lots of areas where the weight can be reduced. They are removing of dead weight, Landing gear, More composite, Merging of LRUS. new light weight more rigid wings, Structural optimization, less numbers of rivets etc, etc.

Mk1 itself is quite capable fighter, Mk1-A will be beast.

HAL just need to make a stable production line and increase the numbers. Parrikar just needs to make sure, production line never remains ideal.. something like production of HAL Dhruv.. see how beautifully it's evolving from mk1>mk4.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The context here is maneuverability in dogfight, Not ferrying weapon on long run..

During Bahrain Airshow, Tejas was without the load of armaments and drop-tanks.

 

[sasum]

The context here is maneuverability in dogfight, Not ferrying weapon on long run..

But even in dogfight A to A missiles are needed, along with canon. Besides, the aircraft needs other load augmenting paraphernalia like towed decoy, jammer pod etc....all necessary tools in interception/ dogfight.