ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[PaliwalWarrior]

i still stand by what i said
16 jets/year x 6.6 years = 106 jets by 2024 end
24 jets/year x 6 years = 144 by 2030 end
on top 20 IOC JETS
---------------------------------------------
Grand total - 270 Tejas - all variants by 2030 end

Key point; EXECUTION - Thats all

Your maths is right

The problem is tejas mk1a spanner

The tejas mk1a will be ready by 2017-18 only for evaluations

If evaluations take 1 year then the production run for tejas mk1a can start only in 2018-19 and we have to count 6.6 years from there not from today

So the time line may be pushed to 2025-26

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

HAL needs a production capacity of 24-36 tejas a year more likely 30// year with scope to rapidly bump it upto 36/year

Taking into account nlca and trainers production

 

[Rahul Singh]

Yes, looks like that But i believe something like these types of items should be completely outsourced by ADA/DRDO to private companies and make HAL only concentrate on Tejas.

Will be. HAL has already expressed its choice of being lead integrator only.

 

[tejas warrior]

Guyz, I believe if most of the components are outsourced to L&T/TATA/Mahindra etc.. and HAL works only as lead integrator even without making new assembly lines production rate can be increased from 16 to say 24/30 easily as in this case time taken on each Jigs for each Tejas should reduce. What do you say ?

 

[Rahul Singh]

Your maths is right

The problem is tejas mk1a spanner

The tejas mk1a will be ready by 2017-18 only for evaluations

If evaluations take 1 year then the production run for tejas mk1a can start only in 2018-19 and we have to count 6.6 years from there not from today

So the time line may be pushed to 2025-26

See changes sought in MK-1A will be Incorporated incrementally and LSP-8 is already being upgraded with IFR. All testing and certification will done on it. Re-arrangement though complex task will surely be done on some LSP, i guess LSP-7. Integration of EL-3052 is a minor tasks as there is no structural change involved. SPJ however brings different story as it will require some lab testing, if they chose to hard attach it at wing tips. Even in MER configuration some testing will be required.

I guess once Tejas is awarded FOC in couple of months HAL will start re-arrangement work. Last i read ARDC is already working on MK-1A. After, FOC HAL will get enough spare LSPs for conversion to MK-1A test type. If SPJ gets sorted easily then there is smooth run.

 

[Pulkit]

Guyz, I believe if most of the components are outsourced to L&T/TATA/Mahindra etc.. and HAL works only as lead integrator even without making new assembly lines production rate can be increased from 16 to say 24/30 easily as in this case time taken on each Jigs for each Tejas should reduce. What do you say ?

I have stated the same thing some time back but had to change my mind after having a conversation with a senior .
They can only outsource bolts and nuts and nothing more.
If they do they will have to share the technology which in the case of defense no one is ready to or everyone is afraid to.

example: they can outsource clips stabilizers which are already doing but the composite parts are to be built in home.
Its not that the private industry cannot do that its just the risk involved.

an engine for example is assembly of various subassemblies but no engine building firm even allow subassemblies to be outsourced . That's the importance of tech.

Even delivery and cost also comes into picture . outsourcing will lead to various dependencies and cost inc.
And current nothing is streamlined.

Even after this I will like to state that they process of manufacturing Tejas is not optimized and should be explored further to improve rate of manufacturing.

There will be various products available in the market which can be outsourced.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Guyz, I believe if most of the components are outsourced to L&T/TATA/Mahindra etc.. and HAL works only as lead integrator even without making new assembly lines production rate can be increased from 16 to say 24/30 easily as in this case time taken on each Jigs for each Tejas should reduce. What do you say ?

Exactly. If HAL successfully outsources all sub-assembly then it will be left with only coupling, equipping and roll out. This will free a lot of space in existing production hangers, may be by 30-40 %. Which will definitely used for more coupling stations thereby increasing production.

 

[Vilander]

SP2 flew on Mar 22 apparently.

http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news...hal-says-plans-on-track-english-news-1.945789

Some more details on the jigs, looks like production is picking up.
http://www.oneindia.com/india/hal-on-mission-mode-to-ramp-up-tejas-production-2050583.html

 

[garg_bharat]

The Mark1a is only incremental capability and requires testing of new components only.

This testing will be in progess on LSP series. New aircraft are not required to be built.

There is no reason whatsoever for delay in mark-1a.

 

[garg_bharat]

The government will sanction capacity addition at HAL any day now. Capacity planning takes some time as it involves commitment from both overseas and local suppliers.

Even today HAL can actually churn out 10-12 if it uses it facilities to the hilt.

The support of suppliers is key to achieving targets.

People may get positive surprise on LCA in future.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Well I spoke of evaluations not testing

Testing means testing by HAL ada

Evaluations means testing by user - iaf nftc

If total tejas mk1a is ready by 2018 and can be put in production
Even then 1st batch will roll out 15-20 months later

 

[tejas warrior]

See changes sought in MK-1A will be Incorporated incrementally and LSP-8 is already being upgraded with IFR. All testing and certification will done on it. Re-arrangement though complex task will surely be done on some LSP, i guess LSP-7. Integration of EL-3052 is a minor tasks as there is no structural change involved. SPJ however brings different story as it will require some lab testing, if they chose to hard attach it at wing tips. Even in MER configuration some testing will be required.

I guess once Tejas is awarded FOC in couple of months HAL will start re-arrangement work. Last i read ARDC is already working on MK-1A. After, FOC HAL will get enough spare LSPs for conversion to MK-1A test type. If SPJ gets sorted easily then there is smooth run.

All SPs will have Elta EL/M-2032 multi-mode fire control radar.

Tejas MK1-A will be coming with Elta’s ELM-2052 AESA radar. It will be the most challenging task.

In fact if Mk1-A successfully upgraded with Elta’s ELM-2052 AESA radar by 2018, It will be first Fighter in IAF with ASEA.

 

[Pulkit]

Exactly. If HAL successfully outsources all sub-assembly then it will be left with only coupling, equipping and roll out. This will free a lot of space in existing production hangers, may be by 30-40 %. Which will definitely used for more coupling stations thereby increasing production.

check my post 11146 and you will understand why this cannot be done though there is always a scope.

 

[Pulkit]

The Mark1a is only incremental capability and requires testing of new components only.

This testing will be in progess on LSP series. New aircraft are not required to be built.

There is no reason whatsoever for delay in mark-1a.

It looks easy though its not.
Incorporating new technology is not that easy as for that you first need to master the tech and close all the loop holes.

Even if they are able to test all tech individually successfully they will not be able to depict its behavior in an aircraft for that testing is needed simulators wil not help.

As of now I do not doubt any of the new technological requirements apart from one.
Reduction of weight of the aircraft that is the only field where I doubt HAL might fail .... If they fail to achieve any of the other IAF requirements even that wont be a surprise given there track record but the only tricky thing here will be the weight.

 

[Pulkit]

Well I spoke of evaluations not testing

Testing means testing by HAL ada

Evaluations means testing by user - iaf nftc

If total tejas mk1a is ready by 2018 and can be put in production
Even then 1st batch will roll out 15-20 months later

If they are able to speed up the development then they might not have to wait for 15-20 months.

The suppliers and major parts are not gonna change .
Though I donot know what all structural changes will be done but by then supply chain would have been developed and we can get the updated aircraft within the first 6 months.

 

[garg_bharat]

@Pulkit, let us wait and enjoy the show. Doubts are natural, given past performance. Things will change.

 

[Neelkanth]

HAL aren't an engine manufactuerer. GRTE (DRDO) are the apex engine makers in India and like all R&D feilds in India have been underfunded for decades, even China (whose economy is >7 times India's) hasn't built a reliable engine yet.

Errr... HAL Koraput does "manufacture" or rather builds/assembles them.. .All MKI engines are/were built by HAL Koraput Facility.
GTRE is the Apex body in Gas turbine research, they designed the Kaveri Components and HAL made them at their Bangalore Unit.

Here Bangalore Aero Division : http://www.hal-india.com/Engine Division Bangalore/M__96
and Here Koraput Engine Division: http://www.hal-india.com/Engine Division Koraput/M__138
and the overall Areo engine Division : http://www.hal-india.com/Aero Engine/M__146

 

[garg_bharat]

It is not only su30 engines. Russian engine are built at Koraput and Western engines at Bangalore.

 

[Neelkanth]

It is not only su30 engines. Russian engine are built at Koraput and Western engines at Bangalore.

Yes that is 100% correct other than the hot core everything else is made in HAL. Certain core technologies will never be shared.

 

[abingdonboy]

Really?

Who are you? Completely ignorant but claiming to be an expert.

Get an education BOY!

Prove me wrong instead of hurling personal insults please.