ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Zebra]

What happened mate why are you :shocked: ?

This one......"The Rafale Deal Should Be Scrapped And Renegotiated" | Pranay Sharma

 

[Pulkit]

Yes......

learn about him and u will know what sort of individual he is...

If you knew that you wud hve not been laughing...

do remb he brought gandhis to court finally....

This one......"The Rafale Deal Should Be Scrapped And Renegotiated" | Pranay Sharma

 

[Pulkit]

Who is this "Swami Ji"?

Its Subramanian swami ....You guessed it rite

 

[p2prada]

Deleted....

 

[Pulkit]

hye man thats not fair ....
get it official removed... or make ur target 10,000 + 1....

Deleted....

 

[p2prada]

hye man thats not fair ....
get it official removed... or make ur target 10,000 + 1....

Don't worry. Most of the Arjun brigade is going into the ignore list in a 100 posts. The forum will look very clean to me after that.

I will put you in my ignore list after the 10,001 post.

 

[Pulkit]

Don't worry. Most of the Arjun brigade is going into the ignore list in a 100 posts. The forum will look very clean to me after that.

I will put you in my ignore list after the 10,001 post.

hye dont be insane don't do that to me....You cannot do that .... thats partial....
1 xtra comment for me....

What ever it is make it "Present Number of comments".....

But I think I was in Both Arjun and Tejas Brigade.....

Sayonaaara.....

 

[Defcon 1]

Don't worry. Most of the Arjun brigade is going into the ignore list in a 100 posts. The forum will look very clean to me after that.

I will put you in my ignore list after the 10,001 post.

You do realize by replying to them you are simply satisfying their desperate need for attention. Lets come back to topic.

Do you have any estimates about how long will it take to develop the software for all the modes of MkII AESA radar, which would make it capable of being like a RWR, activate the LPI mode, SAR mode, and ground mapping modes? Thanks.

 

[p2prada]

You do realize by replying to them you are simply satisfying their desperate need for attention. Lets come back to topic.

That's why I plan to put the whole lot on the ignore list after 10000 posts. Until then I said I would continue replying to them. Some are already on it. Anyway point taken.

Do you have any estimates about how long will it take to develop the software for all the modes of MkII AESA radar, which would make it capable of being like a RWR, activate the LPI mode, SAR mode, and ground mapping modes? Thanks.

Writing the software itself takes roughly 2 or 3 years. An AESA radar has millions of lines of codes unlike regular radars. Testing that takes the longest. And unless the Israelis simply jump in and start testing everything for us, we should take at least 10 years to get our first radar right, after the first prototype is ready.

10 years is an optimistic date meant for experienced developers. The French started working on their AESA sometime in 2002 or 2003 and it took them around 10 years to get it to IOC.

The Irbis-E, which is just a modified Bars, saw 7-8 years of development and testing. N036 Byelka will have taken 10 years when it will achieve IOC, but it is a far more complex system, a family of 5 radars.

The F-35's APG-81 development started in 2001 as well. It is not yet fully ready even though it's air to air modes were taken from the F-22's APG-77.

Development of the radar for Mk1 started in 1997 and even today it is barely ready. And this radar is nowhere near an AESA in terms of complexity. It has taken roughly 15 years. This is considering LRDE is a bit more accomplished than ADA is. Let's keep our fingers crossed. It is possible the radar will simply end up being a license production of an Israeli developed radar, like how it was for Swordfish LRTR. We will just modify it for our use. If this is the case, it should end up being developed a lot faster.

Even after induction, the radar undergoes a lot of upgrades and updates. So, it is a continuous process which will go on until it is phased out.

 

[no smoking]

now you will say how will tejas match j20.... But rafale too will equally vulnerable against j20. One squadron loss of rafale means 2 billion approx. And its just 250- 270 million for tejas. And tejas carries less payload meaning less rcs so it will be harder to detect tejas than rafale @Mad Indian

Against J20? That is not Rafale's job. You FGFA will deal with it.
Rafale is brought in for J11B, J11BS and J10s.
Actually, what we learnt was that French guaranteed that Rafale will beat J10 hands down in their bidding. That was one of reasons that you choose Rafale.

 

[ersakthivel]

Against J20? That is not Rafale's job. You FGFA will deal with it.
Rafale is brought in for J11B, J11BS and J10s.
Actually, what we learnt was that French guaranteed that Rafale will beat J10 hands down in their bidding. That was one of reasons that you choose Rafale.

tejas mk1 and mk2 + su-30 MKi combo is good enough for j-10 and all other flanker combos of PLAF.

In factors like wing loading, TWR, ITR and clean config RCS tejas holds the lead over any other fighter in south asia save mig-29(twr), and the flankers(3D Thrust vectoring)
By the time j-20 finishes valodation FGFA will be in service.

 

[ersakthivel]

ASEA minaturization of TR module is what is going on. Those millions of lines of codes should have been written, tested and validated for DRDO's AEW platform's ASEA radar that had already seen it's development completed.

So no need for israelis dont jump in with millions of lines of code.

 

[Jagdish58]

Against J20? That is not Rafale's job. You FGFA will deal with it.
Rafale is brought in for J11B, J11BS and J10s.
Actually, what we learnt was that French guaranteed that Rafale will beat J10 hands down in their bidding. That was one of reasons that you choose Rafale.

How can one be so sure the Rafale can beat J-10 handsdown it is just an marketing ploy

during 1965 War Mystère IVA shotdown F-104 there is no comparizon between both aircrafts , so the outcome of the AIR to AIR battle is really unpredictable

One thing is for sure if India goes for Rafale it means again getting into mess like T-90 , Scorpion submarine , to some extent Su-30MKI engine issue

 

[Jagdish58]

JF-17 and Lca Tejas: Difference in approach | idrw.org

With 40 JF-17 aircrafts already inducted into Pakistan air force and Zero Tejas inducted in IAF, at least in papers JF-17 seems to be a successful project, but it is also clear that approach taken by IAF and PAF on LCA and JF-17 have been completely opposite to each other in terms of participation and acceptance levels of the aircraft.
For Pakistani air force JF-17 will be replacing aging A-5C, Mirage-III, Mirage-V, and F-7P/PG by 2015 and JF-17 is slated to become the backbone of Pakistan Airforce (PAF), JF-17 will also will be providing PAF next Gen technology, But for IAF Lca will not be bringing any new technology which it does not possess and will not be backbone or even lead secondary aircraft in future ,role of JF-17 and Tejas to their respected air force are different and also shows different approach taken by them .

PAF inducted JF-17 when it was capable only to carry PL-5EII WVR air to air missiles and fuel tanks over the time BVR missiles and other weapons were added to the aircraft; it took two years for PAF and Pakistani Aeronautical establishment to bring it to IOC standards. PAF already has Two Squadrons of JF-17 which are mostly used for carrying out such tests and for pilot conversion training.

IAF on other hand only agreed to accept 20 IOC-2 standard LCA and 20 more of FOC standards , while whole 40 JF-17 inducted by PAF are of IOC standards , this clearly shows IAF hesitance in inducting more LCA at its Initial stage , while PAF inducted larger number of JF-17 aircrafts with their IOC limitations . Both air forces have plans to induct close to 250 of such aircrafts in their fleet and approach taken by PAF will lead them to higher induction rate and better production line.

JF-17 has been developed in Blocks, first 40 aircraft which has already been delivered to PAF are of Block- I stage and first Block –II aircraft will likely be ready by end of this year or early next year and will come with "enhanced features" like IFR, New ECM/data link, infra-red search and track (IRST) system and new weapons integration, PAF also has agreed to stick with Russian built Klimov RD-93 engines .Block II will incorporate features which PAF could not integrate with Block-I aircrafts leading to limited combat capabilities of JF-17 , Initial plans of Block-II aircrafts were to equip it with new WS-13 turbofan Chinese engine delivering higher thrust then current Russian engines and also equip it with an AESA radar , but now Block-III has been planned which will incorporate this features and plans are to have first aircraft ready by 2016 , Block-III will have reduced RCS and will feature twin seat variant and likely to have some stealth elements in the airframe .

While Tejas MK-2 which cannot be considered has another block variant, since MK-2 will feature new higher thrust engine, IFR, new mission computers, higher fuel and weapons carrying capacity and will also have different dimensions compared to Tejas MK-1 and first flight of Tejas MK-2 is expected by end of 2014 or early 2015, while FOC of Tejas MK-1 has been planned in 2014. Without any induction of MK-1 aircrafts, IAF forced development of MK-2 which has lead to delays and shift in focus for development of two variants of Tejas. PAF inducted JF-17 when it had not matured and suffered from technical deficiencies but brought standard of aircrafts in blocks to make it combat capable.

If IAF had agreed to more Tejas MK-1 in IOC standards, it could have helped starting and stabilizing production line for the aircraft. With limited orders for Tejas MK-1, aircrafts will be produced at slower rate and even Induction will be at much slower rate, while PAF with a stable production line will induct next 20 JF-17 of Block-II standard next year bringing total to 62 aircrafts while Tejas MK-1 handed over to IAF will only stand at 4.

 

[Jagdish58]

Given its small size anyway, it's "virtually invisible" to adversary fighter; were how a Tejas Test pilot described Tejas RCS signature. Use of carbon fibre gives Tejas natural stealth characteristics and advantage of low operating costs, use of carbon fibre composites (CFC) gives Tejas 45 percent content by weight and 90 per cent of its surface is made of carbon fibres, Carbon fibre doesn't make aircraft stealthily but reflection of radar beams by CFC is much less when compared to metallic components in the aircrafts but CFC with Radar-absorbent material coating and given the smaller size of aircraft gives Tejas low radar signature or stealth characteristics .
Expert believe that RCS of Tejas is three times smaller than a Mirage-2000, but it might be speculation since official RCS figure of Tejas has never been made available in public domain, CFC have other advantages they don't deteriorate with age nor corrode due weather elements, CFC also gives Tejas better operational empty weight giving Tejas better thrust to weight ratio when compared with other aircrafts with similar engines. CFC does have their own disadvantages, there are expensive to make but India has already invested heavily in development of CFC making it among the best in CFC technology in the world.

Sensing an opportunity and possibility of further reduction in radar signature of Tejas, DRDO has put towed with idea of development of Tejas MK-3 with better improvements and lowering its radar signatures, DRDO plans to use up to 70 percent of CFC in Tejas MK-3 up from 45 percent currently used in Tejas MK-1. DRDO also plans to focus on reducing infrared signature of the aircraft by reducing exhaust temperatures from the engine, to make Tejas MK-3 near Stealth aircraft DRDO also plans to improve fuselage and improve engine ducts to achieve low radar signature.

Research work carried out on AMCA will help in development of Tejas MK-3 and MK-3 will also benefit in avionics development which according to DRDO will borrow heavily from AMCA. Two current projects on Stealth front headed by DRDO are development of Stealth aircraft AMCA and development of unmanned combat aircraft Aura, MK3 likely will be testbed for such development and technology developed will benefit all three projects in long term in future.


Stealth and Tejas | idrw.org

 

[Pulkit]

Actually, what we learnt was that French guaranteed that Rafale will beat J10 hands down in their bidding. That was one of reasons that you choose Rafale.

Please provide the source .... for this information....
Because J10 can be neutralised with a combo of Tejas and Sukhoi MKI.... If thats the case then our point of not buying Rafale will be strengthened.....

 

[Zebra]

Yes......

learn about him and u will know what sort of individual he is...

If you knew that you wud hve not been laughing...

do remb he brought gandhis to court finally....

I thought you are talking about some religious person......Swami Ji.

But it was Subramanian Swamy.

 

[Pulkit]

I thought you are talking about some religious person......Swami Ji.

But it was Subramanian Swamy.

Yes .... there was a reason why I called him that .... Hes acting totally like one today... Targeting all the evil in the society .... Starting with Congress lol....

 

[ersakthivel]

The new OUTLOOK issue has a cover story about RAFALE- Modi's 1,32,000 crore headache,.
Rightly said.

 

[Defcon 1]

That's why I plan to put the whole lot on the ignore list after 10000 posts. Until then I said I would continue replying to them. Some are already on it. Anyway point taken.



Writing the software itself takes roughly 2 or 3 years. An AESA radar has millions of lines of codes unlike regular radars. Testing that takes the longest. And unless the Israelis simply jump in and start testing everything for us, we should take at least 10 years to get our first radar right, after the first prototype is ready.

10 years is an optimistic date meant for experienced developers. The French started working on their AESA sometime in 2002 or 2003 and it took them around 10 years to get it to IOC.

The Irbis-E, which is just a modified Bars, saw 7-8 years of development and testing. N036 Byelka will have taken 10 years when it will achieve IOC, but it is a far more complex system, a family of 5 radars.

The F-35's APG-81 development started in 2001 as well. It is not yet fully ready even though it's air to air modes were taken from the F-22's APG-77.

Development of the radar for Mk1 started in 1997 and even today it is barely ready. And this radar is nowhere near an AESA in terms of complexity. It has taken roughly 15 years. This is considering LRDE is a bit more accomplished than ADA is. Let's keep our fingers crossed. It is possible the radar will simply end up being a license production of an Israeli developed radar, like how it was for Swordfish LRTR. We will just modify it for our use. If this is the case, it should end up being developed a lot faster.

Even after induction, the radar undergoes a lot of upgrades and updates. So, it is a continuous process which will go on until it is phased out.

Thanks. Well I basically wanted to know how long it will take to completely develop the software for the radar, that allows it to use all its modes, after the hardware is ready, lets say by 2018. I have an article which quotes a DRDO scientist saying that they started working on T/R module back in 1998. According to the know your Rafale thread, Dassault started studies on Active array in 1990. So I don't think we have lagged in development time.

Anyways does anyone know how time delay induced beam steering in planar array radars differs from time delay induced beam steering in ESA radar? @Twinblade