ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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CuriousBen

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passages like the above are made without even acknowledging that today's flight test team has 8 LSP s along with many PVs, which is not the case in 2000.

So it is stupid to expect that the time taken for the remaining 1500 flights will be at the same ratio of the previous 2300 flights which had less than half the number of LSPs available from 2000 to 2005.

And most of the time consuming design modifications asked by IAF are already done in the past decade. And LSP-7 and 8 are closest to freezed production models. So remaining flight tests can be completed easily .

Already there are reports that IAF is satisfied with the STR of tejas mk-1 and AOA has gone past 22 deg AOA. This was not the case in 2000.

So it is absurd to sweep these critical facts under the carpet and attribute the same time lines for the remaining 1000 flights.



If Tejas is obsolete then the J-10 which has an absurd AL-31 engine mated to Israeli Lavi airframe dating back to 1970s is space age perhaps!!!!!!!!!

Methods to defeat 5th gen stealths would be deployed by 2030. In that case J-20 too will become obsolete by the time it's numbers reach 200 or 300 in PLAF perhaps!!!!!!!!!!

The only thing Tejas can not do for some "Policy makers" is ---

1. It has no facility to funnel hard earned Indian tax payer money to Swiss bank Accounts through slush funds

2. It can not summon leggy beauties in lavish parties held by Arms dealers in posh farm houses on the suburbs of New Delhi.

3. Also ADA can not get ASRs diluted in it's favor like the makers of Pliatus,West land and FGFA can pull it off with their "very high technical expertise".

Much worse due to the lack of "experience " of ADA the ASR only gets stricter with passage of time for LCA tejas, which by the way is not to the liking of India's adversaries.

Other than these three very critical short comings ,

it can do the mundane tasks of delivering Long range BVRs and doing decent close combat dogfights against incoming enemy fighters,

while taking the base line IAF capacity to the levels above Mirage-2000 and F-16 class , which is the purpose of it's design.
In one thread of Broadsword, Ajay shukla mentioned that tejas stopped being a joke, ever since it flew.
In the first place I never had any doubts about Tejas at all, nor do I have any doubts whatsoever.

We cannot go back and change the past. For whatever reasons , tejas program must continue its journey.

Every product, project, and program must iterate and the aircraft must refine with each phase of delivery. There is nothing new in what I am saying. It common product life cycle.

However would like to make things clear.

I am not being skeptical about the capacity or the efforts . Management is very important and it has to be met with equal enthusiasm from scientist.
"But a time-bound outcome is a must".
It is evident that there was a "lack of management focus" before. Given that it is center of focus, results are bound to come sooner.
Every managment person know one basic thumb rule. Requirements are never constant. So change must be countered by management effectively.
The product should speak for itself,this should should be the motto of ADA / HAL/ DRDO and with proven capability.

There is a saying in the police force, the biggest threat to society always comes from within .
With the Indian diaspora subject to a rot that starts from the top and with an air force and army that has the "buyers airforce " and "buyers army" , "largest buyers" tag, there lies the greatest threat.
In ndtv they termed it as "contractor mafia"
The USA itself was subject to such tyranny when john kennedy was assasinated. America plunged into a war with vietnam and large contracts of helicopter worth billions that time were given out.

I just hope that there is no sabotage that will lead to loss of life.

However as Mr Woody Allen writes, there are bound to be challenges and lives will be lost ( i hope not), what we must understand is that we must stick to the tejas program and complete it.
 

rvjpheonix

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Maiden engine relight test of Tejas held - The New Indian Express
By Anantha Krishnan M - BANGALORE Published: 28th September 2013 08:25 AM Last Updated: 28th September 2013 08:25 AM
The Light Combat Aircraft Tejas successfully completed its maiden engine relight test on Friday -- a critical parameter the programme needs to achieve for the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC). Military sources confirmed to Express that the Limited Series Production (LSP-7) aircraft from the Tejas flight-line, piloted by Gp Capt R R Tyagi, underwent the engine relight test at 1 pm. The LSP-7 was chased by a Hawk aircraft.

"It is a great milestone for a single-engine fighter aircraft. The relight test is the second most critical event for a fighter jet programme, after its maiden flight. The pilot took the flight to a height of 30,000 ft before the relight test, which was performed over the skies of Kolar region," a source said.

During Friday's test, the pilot is said to have brought the throttle down to zero for a few seconds, so that the aircraft loses power. The pilot pulled the throttle again, confirming the relight process. Engine relight is done to check the aircraft's performance in an emergency situation.

A senior airworthiness official said the project is now slowly, but steadily completing the IOC-2 parameters. "So far Tejas has logged over 2,330 flights clocking around 1,350 hours. It is high time we finish IOC-2 and get on with the FOC (Final Operational Clearance) formalities," the official said.
 

rvjpheonix

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Can someone please confirm this news and the credibility of the report. It is stating a lot of numbers including the number of hours done.I hope not DDM.
 

Anonymouse

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Can someone please confirm this news and the credibility of the report. It is stating a lot of numbers including the number of hours done.I hope not DDM.
Anantha Krishnan used to be PR spokesperson for HAL. He has extensive access to insiders from HAL, DRDO, CEMILAC, IAF and IN. All his reporting is authoritative.
 

dealwithit

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Maiden Engine Relight Test Successful

The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas successfully completed the maiden engine relight test on Friday -- a critical parameter the programme needs to achieve for the Initial Operational Clarence (IOC-2). Military sources confirmed to Express that the Limited Series Production (LSP-7) aircraft from the Tejas flight-line, piloted by Gp Capt R R Tyagi, underwent the engine relight test at 1 pm. The LSP-7 was chased by a Hawk aircraft.

"It's a great milestone for a single-engine fighter aircraft. The relight test is the second most critical event for a fighter jet programme, after its maiden flight. The pilot took the flight to a height of 30,000 feet before the relight test, which was performed over the skies of Kolar region," a source said.

(During Friday's test, the pilot is said to have brought the throttle down to zero for a few seconds, so that the aircraft lose power. The pilot pulled the throttle again, confirming the relight process. Engine relight is done to check the aircraft's performance in an emergency situation.)

Ever since the rap by Defence Minister A K Antony recenlty, who asked both the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), to complete the IOC-2 formalities at the earliest, the project has been shrouded in secrecy. As reported by Express earlier, HAL has even put restrictions in sharing details of Tejas to its stakeholders and media.

A senior airworthiness officials said that project is now slowly, but steadily completing the IOC-2 parameters. "The relight test will give tremendous boost to the programme. So far Tejas has logged over 2330 flights cloaking around 1,350 hours. There are issues on both sides (DRDO & HAL), but in the interest of the programme hope everything will get sorted out soon. It's high time we finish IOC-2 and get on with the FOC (Final Operational Clearance) formalities," the official, said.
 

p2prada

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Development partner would be self-defeating. Its better to design everything from scratch by orselves.
Not possible at the technology levels and timeline that IAF needs it in.

I am not able to understand , if we have make significant strides in missile tech and are almost self-reliant, can't we, with the same focus propel LCA tejas development program ,specifically kaveri engine program faster .

The spin off or own development will have positive consequences. Knowledge never goes waste.
It is not so simple. Our missile tech matured over 40 years, our aerospace not so much.
 

p2prada

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After 2020. Its not very convincing.

I think the experts might have evaluated it and might already have a fair assessment of the capabilities.
I think it may take not more than 1.5 years to prove its worth.
It takes 5 years just to get a good pilot capable of getting into a dog fight. It will take at least three years to get a pilot who is minimum 500 hours on LCA. It will take 6 years before he reaches 1000 hours and is capable of developing tactics for the aircraft. And this is for the initial pilots only.

In 1.5 years, he will still be doing basic training.
 

Defcon 1

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It takes 5 years just to get a good pilot capable of getting into a dog fight. It will take at least three years to get a pilot who is minimum 500 hours on LCA. It will take 6 years before he reaches 1000 hours and is capable of developing tactics for the aircraft. And this is for the initial pilots only.

In 1.5 years, he will still be doing basic training.
Why not provide basic training using Tejas simulator so that training can be started even before production of mk-1 starts?
 

Decklander

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It takes 5 years just to get a good pilot capable of getting into a dog fight. It will take at least three years to get a pilot who is minimum 500 hours on LCA. It will take 6 years before he reaches 1000 hours and is capable of developing tactics for the aircraft. And this is for the initial pilots only.

In 1.5 years, he will still be doing basic training.
A non FBW ac can be certified for FOC in about 500 flights but the biggest problem with RSS FBW ac is that every software modification has to be tested on simulator and than in actual flight which extends the number of flights and time period by many years from concept to induction. If you have a stable design, you can produce, induct and replace an ac by the time it takes to induct one RSS FBW design.
 

Defcon 1

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I did not mean that whole training should be done on simulator, I was talking about basic training. many airforces in the world do that. USAF uses simulators extensively. It also saves precious dollars and fuel, something the armed forces are under pressure to save.
 

p2prada

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A non FBW ac can be certified for FOC in about 500 flights but the biggest problem with RSS FBW ac is that every software modification has to be tested on simulator and than in actual flight which extends the number of flights and time period by many years from concept to induction. If you have a stable design, you can produce, induct and replace an ac by the time it takes to induct one RSS FBW design.
I hate it whenever these officials come out saying they will achieve IOC or FOC in this and this time when they should have done that 10 years ago with a more basic design with analog FBW + hydraulic controls, what it should have been.

IOC/FOC dates changed from 1999/2001 to 2006/2008 and every one year after 2008 right up to 2014/20XX and even then there is ridiculous support for this aircraft.
 

aerokan

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I hate it whenever these officials come out saying they will achieve IOC or FOC in this and this time when they should have done that 10 years ago with a more basic design with analog FBW + hydraulic controls, what it should have been.

IOC/FOC dates changed from 1999/2001 to 2006/2008 and every one year after 2008 right up to 2014/20XX and even then there is ridiculous support for this aircraft.
so what should we do? Don't support Tejas and let the people against indigenisation say "Cut this program. It doesn't have any support. Why do you worry when people doesn't even support it? Take this money and get over with it!!" ?

Visionaries of the future are always illogical to the present :namaste:
 

Decklander

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I hate it whenever these officials come out saying they will achieve IOC or FOC in this and this time when they should have done that 10 years ago with a more basic design with analog FBW + hydraulic controls, what it should have been.

IOC/FOC dates changed from 1999/2001 to 2006/2008 and every one year after 2008 right up to 2014/20XX and even then there is ridiculous support for this aircraft.
In a non FBW stable design all the calculations for stores and CG position is already decided even before the ac takes to air for the first flight. After design validation and aerodynamic validation, you move to FOC. It is as quick as that.
 

happy

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Well I think if you put in real concentration on simulators then it will really help in live situations.
 

p2prada

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Well I think if you put in real concentration on simulators then it will really help in live situations. NFS might be just a game but unless you learn the basic skill of avoiding obstacles you cannot achieve targets and that will even apply in real life situations.
Simulators can never simulate real world conditions simply due to the limitations of current technology.

You guys are expecting AI level conditions using today's technology.

Battlefield 3 is more realistic than most of the simulators available today.
 

Defcon 1

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Simulators can never simulate real world conditions simply due to the limitations of current technology.

You guys are expecting AI level conditions using today's technology.

Battlefield 3 is more realistic than most of the simulators available today.
Hi, I will speak for simulators because of two primary reasons:

1. They are a cost effective way to practice tactical scenarios.

2. The simulator technology is moving very fast. With moore's law and increasingly better rendering algorithms being developed. The system is becoming more complex day by day. In addition it is not going to be limited to pilot training in future, as more and more systems are linked to simulators, one has the potential to conduct military exercises in simulation, with any armed force of the world having such a system.
What I am basically saying is that scope of IT in armed forces is set to expand substantially in the coming years, if we don't start now, we will be left behind. A Tejas simulator looks a smaller project today, in future, a linked system which could simulate an attack on Karachi harbor by IAF will be much more difficult to implement if we don't have some infrastructure already.

Imagine in future we see Pakistan buying J10, we immediately create a new object in the simulate to mimick J10, evaluate various responses to the new threat, decide on the best one, and then practice for it on the real plane. If new studies are validated using a simulator, it enable us to iron out any flaws before we go for an actual military exercise to validate it in the real world. Simulation is the need of the future, but our planners will turn a blind eye to it, no money will be allocated now, after 10 years, when everyone else has made huge advances in this field and we are far behind, we will buy a expensive system from abroad.
 

p2prada

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Hi, I will speak for simulators because of two primary reasons:

1. They are a cost effective way to practice tactical scenarios.

2. The simulator technology is moving very fast. With moore's law and increasingly better rendering algorithms being developed. The system is becoming more complex day by day. In addition it is not going to be limited to pilot training in future, as more and more systems are linked to simulators, one has the potential to conduct military exercises in simulation, with any armed force of the world having such a system.
What I am basically saying is that scope of IT in armed forces is set to expand substantially in the coming years, if we don't start now, we will be left behind. A Tejas simulator looks a smaller project today, in future, a linked system which could simulate an attack on Karachi harbor by IAF will be much more difficult to implement if we don't have some infrastructure already.

Imagine in future we see Pakistan buying J10, we immediately create a new object in the simulate to mimick J10, evaluate various responses to the new threat, decide on the best one, and then practice for it on the real plane. If new studies are validated using a simulator, it enable us to iron out any flaws before we go for an actual military exercise to validate it in the real world. Simulation is the need of the future, but our planners will turn a blind eye to it, no money will be allocated now, after 10 years, when everyone else has made huge advances in this field and we are far behind, we will buy a expensive system from abroad.
This stuff exists today. The person I was replying to was suggesting gaining experience on the aircraft using simulators before dog fights.

I am saying a simulator is no replacement for the real aircraft even when it comes to training.

Why else do you think US has such a massive training plan for F-22 and F-35 pilots. Their pilots need to fly a 4th gen aircraft as a trainer before moving to a 5th gen. They are using F-16 Block50s for training before moving them to F-22s.
 

happy

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This stuff exists today. The person I was replying to was suggesting gaining experience on the aircraft using simulators before dog fights.

I am saying a simulator is no replacement for the real aircraft even when it comes to training.

Why else do you think US has such a massive training plan for F-22 and F-35 pilots. Their pilots need to fly a 4th gen aircraft as a trainer before moving to a 5th gen. They are using F-16 Block50s for training before moving them to F-22s.
I did not say anything about dog fights.
 

happy

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Simulators can never simulate real world conditions simply due to the limitations of current technology.

You guys are expecting AI level conditions using today's technology.

Battlefield 3 is more realistic than most of the simulators available today.
Correct. They are a cost effective way to get acquainted with the machine.
 
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