ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
Status
Not open for further replies.

p2prada

New Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,017
Ohkk so let me get this straight. R73 for wvr on mk-1 and Derby/Astra mk1 for bvr.
and Python V for wvr on mk2 and Derby/Astra mk1/Astra mk2 for bvr
More or less, yes. Akash Mk2 on LCA is not certain yet, but it is quite possible. Derby and Astra Mk1 are certain.

Python V is not official news yet, but it was part of the weapons complement for LCA during the air show.

Do you mean that mk2 also won't have IRST?? :why:
Yeah.

It is not a requirement.
 

Twinblade

New Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
1,578
Likes
3,231
Country flag
More or less, yes. Akash Mk2 on LCA is not certain yet, but it is quite possible. Derby and Astra Mk1 are certain.
I hope you meant Astra Mk2 ;)

Astra Mk2 will most probably come in more or less the same package size as Mk1 and with more or less same guidance and control. To not integrate it would be a news.
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
Broadsword

Interview with Dr Avinash Chander, DRDO chief

Would that mean loosening export control regulations?

Exports would be fine, provided we first meet our own military's requirements. But a large, assured market is essential for economically viable development programmes.

Take the Tejas fighter --- the Indian market may be for just 100-200 aircraft but the global market could buy another 500 aircraft. There is demand for this class of aircraft and not many competitors. If we build the Tejas in large numbers it can be globally competitive.
 

CuriousBen

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
58
Likes
20
I was told it would fly in 2013 (very reliable source), but I was told this two years back. Not sure if any slippages have happened during this time period. Regarding the test bed it is most likely to be PV-1.
Sir, true , more questions than answers. But the main question is ? is there a very strong will ? If there is a "will" backed by an urge , then its not so easy to break the bureacratic walls. Results matter , but in a deterministic time frame.

Look at the flip side of all this speculation and self-doubt. The earlier things start on kaveri integration with Tejas , the better.
Who knows , testing the engine will provide very good practical experience that can be extremely helpful for UCAV.
This experience might catapult the knowledge and capacity to make even bigger and powerful engines so that we may one day think of long range bombers and .. possible development of engines ( or reasonable service support ) for engines of big aerospace companies.

If at all ,Kaveri is planned engine for UCAV, then we need at least 500 of them. While mass producing the engine is one science itself. Getting the engine right is the first thing .This should make LCA tejas a gamechanger. Self reliance is one aspect and export potential is another.

There are many learned people in this forum and I hope many would agree.

Coming to Tejas electronics. Is there any chance that the AESA will be ready and tested this year ?
 

Ganesh2691

New Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
216
Likes
297
Tejas flight update

LCA-Tejas has completed 2318 Test Flights Successfully. (13-Sep-2013).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-370,LSP1-74,LSP2-282,PV5-36,LSP3-157,LSP4-94,LSP5-217,LSP7-56,NP1-4,LSP8-26)

From
LCA-Tejas has completed 2309 Test Flights Successfully. (05-Sep-2013).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-369,LSP1-74,LSP2-282,PV5-36,LSP3-157,LSP4-94,LSP5-213,LSP7-53,NP1-4,LSP8-25)
 

mahesh

New Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
607
Likes
476
Country flag
this prototype Vehicles, after all this sorties and extensive usage, will they be grounded or will they also can be able to make in to IAF ? coz most of the plane, metal, engine and parts are worn out but important point is they all are fully tested most reliable birds big time.
 

Defcon 1

New Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Messages
2,195
Likes
1,842
Country flag
this prototype Vehicles, after all this sorties and extensive usage, will they be grounded or will they also can be able to make in to IAF ? coz most of the plane, metal, engine and parts are worn out but important point is they all are fully tested most reliable birds big time.
IAF has said that it will not induct any LSPs. So we can assume that PVs will be grounded as well.
 

Twinblade

New Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
1,578
Likes
3,231
Country flag
this prototype Vehicles, after all this sorties and extensive usage, will they be grounded or will they also can be able to make in to IAF ? coz most of the plane, metal, engine and parts are worn out but important point is they all are fully tested most reliable birds big time.
They will most probably remain as company prototypes for testing future subsystems.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
AESA may have been ready but only integrated with MK2 when ready ..

There are two AESA are under development, One is DRDO and other is HAL`s own ..

It is very possible, That one may get for MK2 while other for advance research or a upgrade of MK1 ..

Coming to Tejas electronics. Is there any chance that the AESA will be ready and tested this year ?
 

Sridhar

House keeper
New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
3,474
Likes
1,062
Country flag
Tejas flight update

LCA-Tejas has completed 2320 Test Flights Successfully. (17-Sep-2013).


(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-370,LSP1-74,LSP2-282,PV5-36,LSP3-157,LSP4-94,LSP5-218,LSP7-56,NP1-4,LSP8-27)

From
LCA-Tejas has completed 2318 Test Flights Successfully. (13-Sep-2013).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-370,LSP1-74,LSP2-282,PV5-36,LSP3-157,LSP4-94,LSP5-217,LSP7-56,NP1-4,LSP8-26)
 

CuriousBen

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
58
Likes
20
Tejas flight update

LCA-Tejas has completed 2320 Test Flights Successfully. (17-Sep-2013).


(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-370,LSP1-74,LSP2-282,PV5-36,LSP3-157,LSP4-94,LSP5-218,LSP7-56,NP1-4,LSP8-27)

From
LCA-Tejas has completed 2318 Test Flights Successfully. (13-Sep-2013).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-370,LSP1-74,LSP2-282,PV5-36,LSP3-157,LSP4-94,LSP5-217,LSP7-56,NP1-4,LSP8-26)

How many more tests before the much sough after IOC-2 milestone will be achieved ?
There were reports that the FOC shall begin only after IOC-2. Or is there a plan to start that phase of testing in parallel even if IOC-2 is not achieved ?

Does weaponization lead to highers RCS ? e.g. if the machine guns are mounted then by how much the RCS gets increased ?

Off beat there was report that materials have been developed for warhead on agni 5 that can withstand 2000 to 2500 degrees temperature. Given that there is a need to have materials in kavei engine that need to withstand 1700 degress cellcius, can such is .. can such technology be adapted to the blades of Kaveri engine ?


Has LCA tejas been tested in a digfight with any other IAF plane ? lets say the Mig 21 or the mirage 2000 or mig 29 ?
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
How many more tests before the much sough after IOC-2 milestone will be achieved ?
There were reports that the FOC shall begin only after IOC-2. Or is there a plan to start that phase of testing in parallel even if IOC-2 is not achieved ?

Does weaponization lead to highers RCS ? e.g. if the machine guns are mounted then by how much the RCS gets increased ?

Off beat there was report that materials have been developed for warhead on agni 5 that can withstand 2000 to 2500 degrees temperature. Given that there is a need to have materials in kavei engine that need to withstand 1700 degress cellcius, can such is .. can such technology be adapted to the blades of Kaveri engine ?


Has LCA tejas been tested in a digfight with any other IAF plane ? lets say the Mig 21 or the mirage 2000 or mig 29 ?
IOC is not tied to exact number of test flights.

It is a validation of a certain set of test points after implementing 250 requests for action raised by IAF from the time it came on board in 2006.

It will be achieved in a month or two is the statement from ADA.

Test flights program is divided in to two sections i.e IOC and FOC .

So test points for FOC will be validated only after IOC is completed, not before that.

With folded fin BVRS of the future weaponisation for pure to air mode won't add significant RCS . But the present gen R-73s , Derbys and Pythons will add some RCS. Still the total RCS with air to air BVR missiles for Tejas will be less than half of the same figure for any other fighter in IAF fleet,
meaning Tejas can get closest to the target , undetected for any BVR launch on any other fighter operating in south Asian skies.

If 500 KG precision munition is added the RCS will increase significantly


If stealth external weapon bays are implemented on Tejas as it is being done on Hornets and F-15 ,

then tejas will have a total RCS (with weapons )of less than the third of any clean config RCS (or similar stealth external weapon bay implemented ) in IAF fleet like Mig-29, Mirage-2000, and Mig-21,

And it will have a tenth of clean config RCS (or similar stealth external weapon bay implemented )Su-30 MKI in IAF fleet.

Heat shield materials for missiles is carbon composites, but engine blade materials are metal alloys and now ceramic matrix elements . So they can not be adapted straight away for Kaveri is my idea.

Every fighter will have its strengths and weakness in close combat Tejas has a combination of low wing loading and high TWR over Mirage-2000 and Mig-21 in mk-1 version . SO it will do very well as said by test pilots who are Mirage-2000 pilots.

And in mk-2 version it will have comparable TWR along with lower wing loading than Mig-29. SO it will be competent against Mig-29 as well.

It will have less than half the RCS of any of the fighters mentioned above a significant advantage in BVR combat.

Even in WVR close combat it has DASH and high off boresight missiles , against which there are very few counter measures.

So it will be comparable in performance to any other 4.5 gen fighter in the world because the pure gun to gun fight takes place only after all the long range BVR and high off bore sight WVR missiles are expended.

SInce it is very tough for the said fighters to evade WVR missiles (same goes for Tejas as well) it all depends on tactics and numbers along with EW measures like jamming and ESM based targeting mechanisms.

Since tejas mk-2 is supposed to have both OBORG and in flight retracting refueling probe it will have significant endurance advantage over any of the fighters mentioned above when it comes to time on station since peer to peer refueling eliminates the need for high vulnerability tankers to be present in air.

There is no point in comparing MIG-21 to Tejas as tejas will have twice the weapon load, range and radar tracking range along with twice the BVR missile range than the MIg-21 Bisons.


Tactics for dog fights will be validated once the fighter enters IAF fleet.
 
Last edited:

Ganesh2691

New Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
216
Likes
297
Tejas Flight update

LCA-Tejas has completed 2321 Test Flights Successfully. (18-Sep-2013).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-370,LSP1-74,LSP2-282,PV5-36,LSP3-157,LSP4-94,LSP5-218,LSP7-57,NP1-4,LSP8-27)

From
LCA-Tejas has completed 2320 Test Flights Successfully. (17-Sep-2013).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-370,LSP1-74,LSP2-282,PV5-36,LSP3-157,LSP4-94,LSP5-218,LSP7-56,NP1-4,LSP8-27)
 

CuriousBen

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
58
Likes
20
IOC is not tied to exact number of test flights.

It is a validation of a certain set of test points after implementing 250 requests for action raised by IAF from the time it came on board in 2006.

It will be achieved in a month or two is the statement from ADA.

Test flights program is divided in to two sections i.e IOC and FOC .

So test points for FOC will be validated only after IOC is completed, not before that.

With folded fin BVRS of the future weaponisation for pure to air mode won't add significant RCS . But the present gen R-73s , Derbys and Pythons will add some RCS. Still the total RCS with air to air BVR missiles for Tejas will be less than half of the same figure for any other fighter in IAF fleet,
meaning Tejas can get closest to the target , undetected for any BVR launch on any other fighter operating in south Asian skies.

If 500 KG precision munition is added the RCS will increase significantly


If stealth external weapon bays are implemented on Tejas as it is being done on Hornets and F-15 ,

then tejas will have a total RCS (with weapons )of less than the third of any clean config RCS (or similar stealth external weapon bay implemented ) in IAF fleet like Mig-29, Mirage-2000, and Mig-21,

And it will have a tenth of clean config RCS (or similar stealth external weapon bay implemented )Su-30 MKI in IAF fleet.

Heat shield materials for missiles is carbon composites, but engine blade materials are metal alloys and now ceramic matrix elements . So they can not be adapted straight away for Kaveri is my idea.

Every fighter will have its strengths and weakness in close combat Tejas has a combination of low wing loading and high TWR over Mirage-2000 and Mig-21 in mk-1 version . SO it will do very well as said by test pilots who are Mirage-2000 pilots.

And in mk-2 version it will have comparable TWR along with lower wing loading than Mig-29. SO it will be competent against Mig-29 as well.

It will have less than half the RCS of any of the fighters mentioned above a significant advantage in BVR combat.

Even in WVR close combat it has DASH and high off boresight missiles , against which there are very few counter measures.

So it will be comparable in performance to any other 4.5 gen fighter in the world because the pure gun to gun fight takes place only after all the long range BVR and high off bore sight WVR missiles are expended.

SInce it is very tough for the said fighters to evade WVR missiles (same goes for Tejas as well) it all depends on tactics and numbers along with EW measures like jamming and ESM based targeting mechanisms.

Since tejas mk-2 is supposed to have both OBORG and in flight retracting refueling probe it will have significant endurance advantage over any of the fighters mentioned above when it comes to time on station since peer to peer refueling eliminates the need for high vulnerability tankers to be present in air.

There is no point in comparing MIG-21 to Tejas as tejas will have twice the weapon load, range and radar tracking range along with twice the BVR missile range than the MIg-21 Bisons.


Tactics for dog fights will be validated once the fighter enters IAF fleet.

IOC is not tied to exact number of test flights.

It is a validation of a certain set of test points after implementing 250 requests for action raised by IAF from the time it came on board in 2006.

It will be achieved in a month or two is the statement from ADA.

Test flights program is divided in to two sections i.e IOC and FOC .

So test points for FOC will be validated only after IOC is completed, not before that.

With folded fin BVRS of the future weaponisation for pure to air mode won't add significant RCS . But the present gen R-73s , Derbys and Pythons will add some RCS. Still the total RCS with air to air BVR missiles for Tejas will be less than half of the same figure for any other fighter in IAF fleet,
meaning Tejas can get closest to the target , undetected for any BVR launch on any other fighter operating in south Asian skies.

If 500 KG precision munition is added the RCS will increase significantly


If stealth external weapon bays are implemented on Tejas as it is being done on Hornets and F-15 ,

then tejas will have a total RCS (with weapons )of less than the third of any clean config RCS (or similar stealth external weapon bay implemented ) in IAF fleet like Mig-29, Mirage-2000, and Mig-21,

And it will have a tenth of clean config RCS (or similar stealth external weapon bay implemented )Su-30 MKI in IAF fleet.

Heat shield materials for missiles is carbon composites, but engine blade materials are metal alloys and now ceramic matrix elements . So they can not be adapted straight away for Kaveri is my idea.

Every fighter will have its strengths and weakness in close combat Tejas has a combination of low wing loading and high TWR over Mirage-2000 and Mig-21 in mk-1 version . SO it will do very well as said by test pilots who are Mirage-2000 pilots.

And in mk-2 version it will have comparable TWR along with lower wing loading than Mig-29. SO it will be competent against Mig-29 as well.

It will have less than half the RCS of any of the fighters mentioned above a significant advantage in BVR combat.

Even in WVR close combat it has DASH and high off boresight missiles , against which there are very few counter measures.

So it will be comparable in performance to any other 4.5 gen fighter in the world because the pure gun to gun fight takes place only after all the long range BVR and high off bore sight WVR missiles are expended.

SInce it is very tough for the said fighters to evade WVR missiles (same goes for Tejas as well) it all depends on tactics and numbers along with EW measures like jamming and ESM based targeting mechanisms.

Since tejas mk-2 is supposed to have both OBORG and in flight retracting refueling probe it will have significant endurance advantage over any of the fighters mentioned above when it comes to time on station since peer to peer refueling eliminates the need for high vulnerability tankers to be present in air.

There is no point in comparing MIG-21 to Tejas as tejas will have twice the weapon load, range and radar tracking range along with twice the BVR missile range than the MIg-21 Bisons.


Tactics for dog fights will be validated once the fighter enters IAF fleet.


Sounds very promising.

Mk-2 is still far away and it evokes less enthusiasm given that it has been stalled for now till maybe ioc . So maybe 5 years down the line when one mk-2 test aircraft is flying it will make sense to talk about it. I hope i am not wrong in rationalizing the prophecy.

In clean config how much weapons can it carry ? In clean config , for air to air combat are those weapons sufficient to destroy a fleet of 4 aircrafts ?

As we discuss these things openly, how are we to be sure that the chinese are not emulating the same design of tejas ? The chinese are master copy cats.
Given that we have a very inefficient secret service, the chinese and pakis may already have access to the designs.
What is the life of the present tejas technology ? However since this is not the scope of the forum I rest the case.

Coming to kaveri, if we can make the engine fan blade moulded out of carbon composite would it help to reduce the weight ? What stops us from thinking about it ? i dont need to be a scientist to think about it . Bad idea maybe , but if it works out , why should anyone complain.

How strong is tejas. If its receives gunshots on it wings , would the software of fly by wire malfunction and will the ac drop out of sky ? I dont expect it to be as strong as flying fortresses employed during workd war 2. But one might have calculated the possibility of damage in combat.
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
Sounds very promising.

Mk-2 is still far away and it evokes less enthusiasm given that it has been stalled for now till maybe ioc . So maybe 5 years down the line when one mk-2 test aircraft is flying it will make sense to talk about it. I hope i am not wrong in rationalizing the prophecy.

In clean config how much weapons can it carry ? In clean config , for air to air combat are those weapons sufficient to destroy a fleet of 4 aircrafts ?

As we discuss these things openly, how are we to be sure that the chinese are not emulating the same design of tejas ? The chinese are master copy cats.
Given that we have a very inefficient secret service, the chinese and pakis may already have access to the designs.
What is the life of the present tejas technology ? However since this is not the scope of the forum I rest the case.

Coming to kaveri, if we can make the engine fan blade moulded out of carbon composite would it help to reduce the weight ? What stops us from thinking about it ? i dont need to be a scientist to think about it . Bad idea maybe , but if it works out , why should anyone complain.

How strong is tejas. If its receives gunshots on it wings , would the software of fly by wire malfunction and will the ac drop out of sky ? I dont expect it to be as strong as flying fortresses employed during workd war 2. But one might have calculated the possibility of damage in combat.
prophecy and rationalism are two diametrically opposite words, So don't use them in combination.

Mk-2 will fly within a year or two is my idea , since there is nothing new in it, same wing shape, same wing loading , most of the teething problems already resolved in Mk-1 , flight performance all validated in 2300 Mk-1 flights with HAl and IAF on board from the word go,

So I am afraid that your rational prophecy wont hold good as far as Mk-2 timelines are concerned.
One fighter destroying all 4 fighters with four air to air missiles only happens in simulations and not in real world,

It has seven pylons for its empty weight , effective enough.

What is to be noted is tejas is as modern and as effective for the price. If you compare lifecycle costs you can field at least 3 or 4 tejas for every single imported comparable 4.5 the gen fighter, So you can have an idea about the effectiveness.

And your statement regarding chinese and pakis having Tejas design makes no sense, and nobody is going to mount engines blades on carbon composites,

Most of the modern fighters are made of composites , so strength is same for all of them.

Flying fortress type crafts wont be fielded anymore , because heavy fighters wont pull requisite Gs to escape missile shots in modern world, So there is no practical use for them.

Today's fighter are fast,stealthy, , agile and bomb from high altitude with long range stand off precision munition ,

they get out before their presence is known and even if dog fights ensue mostly long range BVR missiles and high off bore sight WVR missiles account for many of the kills. Then only comes direct gun kills.
So they can not be aimed for at like flying fortress of yore with swarms of bullets and shells from anti aircraft fire.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Articles

Top