ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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ersakthivel

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For people insisting that LCA Tejas can not be used in mixed fighter group tactics the following is a good read.
Draft copy of the exercise Cope India report says:

Among many fourth generations attributes added to the IAF MiG-21Bison design, the incorporation of HMS (Helmet Mounted Sight) and high-off-boresight R-73RDM2 NBVR/WVR (Near Beyond Visual Range/Within Visual Range) AAMs (Air-to-Air Missiles) have turned it into a "Great Equalizer" in the WVR combat scenario. Conceptually a small number of MiG-21Bisons maintaining "radar silence" can be guided towards their aerial target by a couple of Sukhoi-30s by secure data links in accordance with MFFC (Mixed Fighter Force Concept). Upon entering into an WVR combat envelope the MiG-21Bisons armed with HMS and deadly NBVR/WVR missiles had the capability of destroying even fifth-generation fighters alike F/A-22 Raptor as assessed by high-profile Fighter Analyst Ben Lambeth of RAND Corporation. According to Lambeth "in visual combat everybody dies at the same rate." F/A-22 also has to slow down if forced into a WVR combat scenario and loses the advantage of its super-cruise attributes. The situation further complicates if the IAF Sukhoi-30s have acquired the capability of providing target illumination for RVV-AE (AA-12 Adder) BVR missiles being launched from IAF MiG-21Bisons at extended ranges.
Eventhough claims vis a vis F-22 is hard to digest this report indicates mixed fighter groups are norm rather than exception.
 

Daredevil

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It was afternoon of 31st December 2000 that high speed takeoff trials were carried out by Wing commander Rajiv Kothiyal; Wing commander Rajiv Kothiyal 42 at that time was a graduate of United States air force test pilots school and was the pilot who could be flying the first TD-1 aircraft.it was more of aborted takeoff were LCA TD-1 reached speed of 240 kmph and when the nose of the aircraft rose up, throttled to the engine was reduced and Brakes were applied.Aircraft was later taken back to the hangar.

Scientist studied the data collected and after feedback from the pilot Kothiyal, go head was giving to the first flight of LCA TD-1. it was matter of days before the first flight could be performed, with weather not been good at the start of the new year, later it was decided that 4th January 2001 will be the day for the historical flight, Met department had predicated good weather condition for that day.

ACM (Air Chief Marshall) Tipnis was informed about the day of the first flight .Excited Tipnis wanted to be in the chase plane of TD-1, since main chase plane Mirage-2000 had many important factors to be carried on the that day, a second Mirage 2000 was arranged so that ACM (Air Chief Marshall) Tipnis could chase TD-1 on its historical flight. Ground preparation for first flight was in full swing in Yelahanka air force base, while Ground rescue and fire crew were prepared for the worst case scenario, Two MI-8 were kept on standby to carry out any SAR (Search and Rescue) mission.

Judgment day, 1000 hours of simulation tests, 17 taxi trials and 92 sorties on Mirage-2000s had all come down to 4th January 2001 with high ranking air force official and ministers from MOD who were to watch the first flight it was make or break for the whole LCA program, anything out of planned profile will mean doom for the whole program.

Pre-flight checks on TD-1 was carried out early morning at around 6.00 am, hardly anyone associated with the program had a sound sleep that night, HAL and ADA officials , personnel started arriving early for the historical flight and started taking all the vantage point . Scenario near runway was very similar to a cricket match stadium, where everybody associated with the project wanted to have good glimpse of the aircraft taking off, Kothiyal performed walk around inspection of the aircraft and project head Dr Kota was seen shaking hands with him.

Kothiyal stepped into the cockpit of TD-1 and it was 9.15 am soon he started carrying out preflight checks and Test instruments on board the aircraft started their own set of test, checks were agonizingly slow and pilot remained in the aircraft for all most 30 minutes before instruments gave him Go head indication, Soon ATC cleared Kothiyalfor takeoff and TD-1 started to progress towards the main runway followed by two Mirage-2000 right behind him in a another runway. Soon both the Mirage 2000 were airborne and had positioned them self-right behind TD-1 in air ,TD-1 started moving and soon started picking up speed and it was at 10.18 am TD-1 took off and kept on climbing , chase pilots did not see any abnormality in aircraft so Kothiyal was told to get the desire attitude which was 10000 ft with landing gear were left in down and locked position ,after 18 minutes in air TD-1 was approaching runway for landing with two Mirage-2000s right behind chasing aircraft ,at 10.36 am TD-1 touched downed and deployed its tail chute and soon aircraft slowed downed and Kothiyal parked the aircraft and switched off the engine and history was made ,it was a small flight for Lca program but a Giant leap for Indian Aeronautics .

LCA Project will complete 12 years on 4th of January Next Month, and Country hopes that the worst is behind Project and LCA heads to Production soon.

Data Inputs from Book "THE TEJAS STORY" BY AIR MARSHAL PHILIP RAJKUMAR

First flight of LCA -Tejas: History revisited | idrw.org
 

ersakthivel

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EXACTLY. You have the answer in the very sentence.



I already explained so even a baby can understand. What does that make you?

Quoting from post #52.


Now do you understand? Why do you think I told you re-read #52? Go read it again. Babies need to learn by rote. So, mug it all up.

The rest of your post is nonsense as usual since you were not able to understand #52.



Read #52 again. Your answer is there.



Lower speed != poor design. Less than optimum air = poor design. Therefore, F-35 != poor design. LCA = poor design. Something that can never be fixed on the LCA Mk1 for obvious reasons.

!= means not equal to.
I had stated very clearly that intakes provide insufficient air at low speeds and high AOA regimes. The aux intakes are to improve the airflow only in these regimes as at high speeds the ram effect provides adequate airflow to the engine. Plus the original LCA was fitted with a 85KN engine and the new LCA is fitted with a 89KN engine. SO increased airflow was needed.
this is decklander's clarification on air intake issue.Now are you agreeing with the point that aux air intake will improve TEJAS's performance in high AOA regime and low speeds or not?
In high speed flight RAM effect takes place adequate airflow to the engine. SO there is no need for aux intake.
But the air intake of tejas has already been redesigned twice once in after TD-1 and then again in PV series for optimum airflow to 85 kn engine.
SO aux intake can be deployed for reaching top speeds in case there is a need since the present engine on LSP is a bit higher powered than the PV engine.

So air intake finetunning is happening right now.And it is possible because HAL itself has said the slow production rate of tejas is due to many refinements taking place between the one flying and one that is about to be produced.
 

ersakthivel

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Re: GE finally gets LCA engine order

EXACTLY. You have the answer in the very sentence.



I already explained so even a baby can understand. What does that make you?

Quoting from post #52.


Now do you understand? Why do you think I told you re-read #52? Go read it again. Babies need to learn by rote. So, mug it all up.

The rest of your post is nonsense as usual since you were not able to understand #52.



Read #52 again. Your answer is there.



Lower speed != poor design. Less than optimum air = poor design. Therefore, F-35 != poor design. LCA = poor design. Something that can never be fixed on the LCA Mk1 for obvious reasons.

!= means not equal to.
I had stated very clearly that intakes provide insufficient air at low speeds and high AOA regimes. The aux intakes are to improve the airflow only in these regimes as at high speeds the ram effect provides adequate airflow to the engine. Plus the original LCA was fitted with a 85KN engine and the new LCA is fitted with a 89KN engine. SO increased airflow was needed.
this is decklander's clarification on air intake issue.Now are you agreeing with the point that aux air intake will improve TEJAS's performance in high AOA regime and low speeds or not?
In high speed flight RAM effect takes place adequate airflow to the engine. SO there is no need for aux intake.
But the air intake of tejas has already been redesigned twice once in after TD-1 and then again in PV series for optimum airflow to 85 kn engine.
SO aux intake can be deployed for reaching top speeds in case there is a need since the present engine on LSP is a bit higher powered than the PV engine.

So air intake finetunning is happening right now.And it is possible because HAL itself has said the slow production rate of tejas is due to many refinements taking place between the one flying and one that is about to be produced.
 

ersakthivel

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I had stated very clearly that intakes provide insufficient air at low speeds and high AOA regimes. The aux intakes are to improve the airflow only in these regimes as at high speeds the ram effect provides adequate airflow to the engine. Plus the original LCA was fitted with a 85KN engine and the new LCA is fitted with a 89KN engine. SO increased airflow was needed.
decklander
this is decklander's clarification on air intake issue.Now are you agreeing with the point that aux air intake will improve TEJAS's performance in high AOA regime and low speeds or not?
In high speed flight RAM effect takes place adequate airflow to the engine. SO there is no need for aux intake.
But the air intake of tejas has already been redesigned twice once in after TD-1 and then again in PV series for optimum airflow to 85 kn engine.
SO IMHO aux intake can be deployed for reaching top speeds in case there is a need since the present engine on LSP is a bit higher powered than the PV series engine.

So air intake finetunning is happening right now.And it is possible because HAL itself has said the slow production rate of tejas is due to many refinements taking place between the one flying and one that is about to be produced.
 

p2prada

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this is decklander's clarification on air intake issue.Now are you agreeing with the point that aux air intake will improve TEJAS's performance in high AOA regime and low speeds or not?
It didn't help at all or you can say it fixed nothing. Only marginal improvements were seen but nothing that helped achieve ASR. One of the reasons why Mk2 was planned. ~500Kg of thrust is underutilized in Mk1 and a further 500Kg of thrust is lost due to higher altitude runway in Bangalore. The 500Kg lost due to altitude is not a problem as such. But the underutilized thrust is the problem.

So air intake finetunning is happening right now.And it is possible because HAL itself has said the slow production rate of tejas is due to many refinements taking place between the one flying and one that is about to be produced.
No. HAL does not have an assembly line, so they cannot make it any faster today. They are already busy with the production of MKI and Hawk. Handling LCA without completing either will be a big task. They have recently started upgrading their facilities, so by the time they will be done, it will take a few years.

The so called "refinements" are design deficiencies that cannot be fixed on Mk1, ever. The refinements are too many, quite like how F-35 is going on. Every other year they are reducing specs and they call it refinement too.

I think you completely missed decklander's post where he said he would prefer IAF scraps 20 Mk1s in exchange for 20 more Mk2s. All people who know what's happening don't like Mk1 at all. It is a complete failure.
 

p2prada

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Re: GE finally gets LCA engine order

this is decklander's clarification on air intake issue.Now are you agreeing with the point that aux air intake will improve TEJAS's performance in high AOA regime and low speeds or not?
It didn't help at all or you can say it fixed nothing. Only marginal improvements were seen but nothing that helped achieve ASR. One of the reasons why Mk2 was planned. ~500Kg of thrust is underutilized in Mk1 and a further 500Kg of thrust is lost due to higher altitude runway in Bangalore. The 500Kg lost due to altitude is not a problem as such. But the underutilized thrust is the problem.

So air intake finetunning is happening right now.And it is possible because HAL itself has said the slow production rate of tejas is due to many refinements taking place between the one flying and one that is about to be produced.
No. HAL does not have an assembly line, so they cannot make it any faster today. They are already busy with the production of MKI and Hawk. Handling LCA without completing either will be a big task. They have recently started upgrading their facilities, so by the time they will be done, it will take a few years.

The so called "refinements" are design deficiencies that cannot be fixed on Mk1, ever. The refinements are too many, quite like how F-35 is going on. Every other year they are reducing specs and they call it refinement too.

I think you completely missed decklander's post where he said he would prefer IAF scraps 20 Mk1s in exchange for 20 more Mk2s. All people who know what's happening don't like Mk1 at all. It is a complete failure.
 

ersakthivel

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It didn't help at all or you can say it fixed nothing. Only marginal improvements were seen but nothing that helped achieve ASR. One of the reasons why Mk2 was planned. ~500Kg of thrust is underutilized in Mk1 and a further 500Kg of thrust is lost due to higher altitude runway in Bangalore. The 500Kg lost due to altitude is not a problem as such. But the underutilized thrust is the problem.


further 500Kg of thrust is lost due to higher altitude runway in Bangalore
This has no relation to tejas program.
first you are saying the engine is starved of air and not producing enough thrust and now you are saying there is an excess of 500 kg thrust in mk-I that is under utilized.So can we take it as there is no air intake issue as far as you are concerned.How will there be excess thrust if air supply is not optimum.
The primary aim of mk-2 is to utilize the far in excess thrust of GE-414 with far higher weapon load and far higher fuel fraction resulting in higher range .
It is not for the purpose of utilizing the so called excess thrust in MK-I.
No. HAL does not have an assembly line, so they cannot make it any faster today. They are already busy with the production of MKI and Hawk. Handling LCA without completing either will be a big task. They have recently started upgrading their facilities, so by the time they will be done, it will take a few years.
If tejas is a priority to IAF production will be faster, as there are no other bottlenecks in serial production as design is frozen and tejas will need a dedicated line for a decade according to HAL.
Your statement is right opposite to that of HAL
The so called "refinements" are design deficiencies that cannot be fixed on Mk1, ever. The refinements are too many, quite like how F-35 is going on. Every other year they are reducing specs and they call it refinement too.
Well that is a subjective statement from you with no authoritative source so there is no way for me to argue against it.But AFAIK specs of tejas has been only increasing from 1984 original ASR of
top speed mach 1.5
STR -17 degrees,
lower AOA,
lower weight lower range missiles,
lower MTOW,
lower G limits,and certainly not with 120 km detection and tracking radar range radar,
as per the most authoritative statement posted by retired airmarshal MSD WOLLEN(former HAL chief when Tejas was in it's inception) in ADA official website.
I think you completely missed decklander's post where he said he would prefer IAF scraps 20 Mk1s in exchange for 20 more Mk2s. All people who know what's happening don't like Mk1 at all. It is a complete failure.
But it was the voluntary decision of IAF to order 20 MK-I(complete failure aircrafts according to you) extra crafts considering the state of their fleet of MIG-21s and 23s and Jags not an ADA demand.

You are far too liberal to use the words like obsolete and failures with indian products even when it's makers claim it is yet to be tested to full potential because of delays in the programs like late funding, only two TDs to test from 2001 to 2004, US sanctions after nuclear test.,change in IAf requirements like extra G load and higher weight higher stress on airframe higher range BVrs,higher specs regarding STR, AOA and all other things
 
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ersakthivel

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Re: GE finally gets LCA engine order

It didn't help at all or you can say it fixed nothing. Only marginal improvements were seen but nothing that helped achieve ASR. One of the reasons why Mk2 was planned. ~500Kg of thrust is underutilized in Mk1 and a further 500Kg of thrust is lost due to higher altitude runway in Bangalore. The 500Kg lost due to altitude is not a problem as such. But the underutilized thrust is the problem.


further 500Kg of thrust is lost due to higher altitude runway in Bangalore
This has no relation to tejas program.
first you are saying the engine is starved of air and not producing enough thrust and now you are saying there is an excess of 500 kg thrust in mk-I that is under utilized.So can we take it as there is no air intake issue as far as you are concerned.How will there be excess thrust if air supply is not optimum.
The primary aim of mk-2 is to utilize the far in excess thrust of GE-414 with far higher weapon load and far higher fuel fraction resulting in higher range .
It is not for the purpose of utilizing the so called excess thrust in MK-I.
No. HAL does not have an assembly line, so they cannot make it any faster today. They are already busy with the production of MKI and Hawk. Handling LCA without completing either will be a big task. They have recently started upgrading their facilities, so by the time they will be done, it will take a few years.
If tejas is a priority to IAF production will be faster, as there are no other bottlenecks in serial production as design is frozen and tejas will need a dedicated line for a decade according to HAL.
Your statement is right opposite to that of HAL
The so called "refinements" are design deficiencies that cannot be fixed on Mk1, ever. The refinements are too many, quite like how F-35 is going on. Every other year they are reducing specs and they call it refinement too.
Well that is a subjective statement from you with no authoritative source so there is no way for me to argue against it.But AFAIK specs of tejas has been only increasing from 1984 original ASR of
top speed mach 1.5
STR -17 degrees,
lower AOA,
lower weight lower range missiles,
lower MTOW,
lower G limits,and certainly not with 120 km detection and tracking radar range radar,
as per the most authoritative statement posted by retired airmarshal MSD WOLLEN(former HAL chief when Tejas was in it's inception) in ADA official website.
I think you completely missed decklander's post where he said he would prefer IAF scraps 20 Mk1s in exchange for 20 more Mk2s. All people who know what's happening don't like Mk1 at all. It is a complete failure.
But it was the voluntary decision of IAF to order 20 MK-I(complete failure aircrafts according to you) extra crafts considering the state of their fleet of MIG-21s and 23s and Jags not an ADA demand.

You are far too liberal to use the words like obsolete and failures with indian products even when it's makers claim it is yet to be tested to full potential because of delays in the programs like late funding, only two TDs to test from 2001 to 2004, US sanctions after nuclear test.,change in IAf requirements like extra G load and higher weight higher stress on airframe higher range BVrs,higher specs regarding STR, AOA and all other things
 

ersakthivel

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MODs please merge this thread with ADA tejas-IV thread as all the debate pertaining to tejas here must be in that thread so that every member can contribute to the discussion.As there is already another separate thread for tejas-MK-II .
 

Kunal Biswas

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LCA Tejas LSP-8 Revs Up On Ground



On December 12, the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC) conducted the initial engine ground run (EGR) on the long awaited eighth limited series production (LSP-8) airframe of the LCA Tejas, according to HAL literature. The LSP-8 is the airframe that is to be handed over to the IAF for user trials.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Derby Missiles Selected to Arm India's Tejas Fighters


Israel's Derby missile is the weapon of choice for India's Tejas fighter. A contract will be signed by March with Rafael Advanced Defence Systems Ltd to supply the air-to-air weapon for the indigenous Indian jets. P.S. Subramanya, director of India's Aeronautical Development Agency, which is developing the light combat aircraft. According to Subramanya, a key criterion for the full clearance is the integration of a Beyond-Visual-Range (BVR) missile. The Rafael Python V missile, closely related to the Derby, was also an option for the Tejas, Subramanya stated. Delivery of the missiles is expected in the second half of 2012, toward the final phase of testing, expected to conclude by December 2012.
While long-term plans were to deploy the locally produced Astra air/air missile with Tejas, the decision to go with a foreign missile was made last year to accelerate the induction of the aircraft into operational service. Astra, under development by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is "doing well" on ground tests, according nto Subramanya, will begin aerial tests o the Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter. The Astra is intended to have a range of about 80km.
Derby Missiles Selected to Arm India's Tejas Fighters | Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News



 
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arnabmit

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Had read about a dual engined, thrust vectoring, vertical tailless LCA... Was it fiction? or under development? or under consideration? or kept aside for AMCA?
 

Kunal Biswas

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It was very early designs of MCA now AMCA..

Had nothing with LCA..

Had read about a dual engined, thrust vectoring, vertical tailless LCA... Was it fiction? or under development? or under consideration? or kept aside for AMCA?
 
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