ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Drsomnath999]

May be problems in sync hing Russian missile with Israeli radar..
Using the Derby as interim quick solution for LCA mk1 & for FOC too..

but R 73 missile was tested on LCA in 2010

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I hope LCA get the touch of French Radar & Engine ASAP..

We are receiving tot on both hope to see them implementing on both AMCA/FGFA/LCA

 

[sathya]

but R 73 missile was tested on LCA in 2010

it was fired blindly, without radar integration i guess

Derby is short to medium range - 50 km, flies mach 4, both IR & terminal radar seeker guided. built to be better than r 73, which has high off bore sight capability, with its unparalleled transverse engine tech, 2.5 mach, 40 km range & IR seeker

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Lets keep this thread Clean of P____ Contest

Post news and Discussion On LCA and related to LCA..

Thank you..




Btw, For those who are interested in JF-17 VS LCA, Here`s a thread link:
http://defenceforumindia.com/defence-strategic-issues/32207-lca-vs-jf17.html

 

[p2prada]

The LCA and the F-16 are of the same weight and size? How does such incompetent wittering ever qualify as an report? What is the size of the engine in F-16 and LCA? Even if he saw that he could have gotten the answer.




Anyone have an account please leave a comment on this page, ask him what engine size diffrence in F-404/414 Vs F-110.

Procurement: India Reinvents Obsolete F-16s

LCA Mk1 and F-16A have similar specs. Such specs comparison don't matter anymore.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

since lca and f-16 seems to be of same weight class can some of you compare the specs of f-16 block-52 which us was offering for mmrca and lca mk2

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kaveri turbofan programme seeks extension

There have also been unforeseen delays in the joint engine effort by DRDO and Snecma for a robust 90kN turbofan engine, based on the M88 ECO core and meeting the minimum performance requirements of the IAF and Navy. Negotiations on technology sharing and intellectual property have taken the better part of the two years, though a top official confirmed that a contract between DRDO and Snecma is likely to be signed within the year. The joint effort, in effect, calls an end to the Kaveri K9 programme as it stands. What it does is propose to quickly build a 90kN thrust turbofan and offer it off the block to the IAF and Navy for their Tejas Mk.1s. The Kaveri-Snecma engine, in twin configuration, could also power India's advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA), though that is still well into the future.

DRDO sources confirm that Snecma will transfer several key technologies as part of the joint engine programme, which include single crystal blades, bladed disk and EBPVD (electron beam plasma vapour deposit coating), all critical areas that the Kaveri engine has failed to find solutions to within the country, though not for lack of trying.

Programme managers believe single crystal blade technology will be a major solution to one of the Kaveri's biggest problems — deformation of blades during testing as a result of high ambient temperatures. This has proved to be a severe limiting factor, considering that structurally solidified blades have structural integrity that comes nowhere close to single crystal structures. According to sources, it is negotiations over the modalities for single crystal blade technology that has taken so long, though the end is finally in sight. Several DRDO labs and the MDNL have tried for years to create an indigenous SCT solution, but so far without success.

The tie up with Snecma will launch the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) into an all-new league, and will involve modern forging, welding and casting techniques for the first time. Unlike the Kaveri K9 programme, the K10 programme (the official designation for the proposed effort with Snecma) will be professionally monitored from the outset, with hard timelines and investments. The work share model has been hammered down, and scientists are confident that they have extracted a competitive contract from the French. Initial reservations about sharing certain technologies were ironed out following the slew of military contracts that went France's way, the last being the substantive Mirage 2000 H/TH upgrade programme.

Almost the entire work force that has been dedicated so far to the Kaveri [9] will be diverted to the K10 effort with Snecma. Scientists foresee challenges in absorbing the technology, but are confident that they will achieve goals once the contract is signed and the effort flagged off. A senior GTRE scientist says, "We have the will and the base technologies. We understand fully well what our shortcomings are, and are eager to deliver a full performance engine to the customer. Gone is the time when we can stay in the lab indefinitely saying we will come up with certain technologies by ourselves. The French will help us cut down on development time. And we will both deliver an engine that will power Indian aircraft. Everybody wins."

Full article:
http://www.spsaviation.net/exclusive...eeks-extension

 

[maomao]

Tejas model - at Singapore Air Show's Indian pavilion. Some people (who are friggin lobbiests) are embarrassed; not me, as I am proud that we are moving in the correct direction

Livefist

 

[sob]

Tejas model - at Singapore Air Show's Indian pavilion. Some people (who are friggin lobbiests) are embarrassed; not me, as I am proud that we are moving in the correct direction

Livefist

I think you have posted this in the wrong thread.

 

[kaRadi]

Love to see the engine become a reality from the dream. Just hope that things work out.

kaRadi

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I think you have posted this in the wrong thread.

Both threads

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Livefist

 

[ace009]

I wish there was a graphic for the LCA design which shows the composition of the aircraft - titanium, aluminium, carbon fiber etc.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

LCA Mk1 and F-16A have similar specs. Such specs comparison don't matter anymore.

He says it weighs the same as LCA, does that minor detail even matter?

No LCA and F-16 are totally different, just because even Su-30mki can carry missiles does not mean they all are in the same league.

 

[ace009]

He says it weighs the same as LCA, does that minor detail even matter?

No LCA and F-16 are totally different, just because even Su-30mki can carry missiles does not mean they all are in the same league.

It matters because the size and class determines what role they will be used in. Both of them will be used for air defence - LCA more as a point defense/ interceptor role while the F-16s as air superiority/ interception.
Definitely the F-16 is leagues ahead in terms of technology and weapons variety, but the basic abilities will be similar - relatively small radius of combat and weapons load, relatively weak radar (for the PAF versions, since they are not AESA equipped) and relatively short in-air times.

 

[sathya]

Naval LCA is more distinct with its hunched back..

 

[sathya]

i feel very sad to see only 2 missiles + 2 bombs...

if we make integrated LDP, we will free up 1 more pylon..
Dual or tripple launchers ae very much welcome here..

 

[Godless-Kafir]

It matters because the size and class determines what role they will be used in. Both of them will be used for air defence - LCA more as a point defense/ interceptor role while the F-16s as air superiority/ interception.
Definitely the F-16 is leagues ahead in terms of technology and weapons variety, but the basic abilities will be similar - relatively small radius of combat and weapons load, relatively weak radar (for the PAF versions, since they are not AESA equipped) and relatively short in-air times.

No the LCA weighs a full 2 tons less but the article claims they both weigh the same more over the LCAs roll is still not set. We are not trying to reinvent the F-16 what we are doing is trying to get a better Mig-21.

This is only an article written to show off americas lead in all spheres.

 

[ace009]

i feel very sad to see only 2 missiles + 2 bombs...

if we make integrated LDP, we will free up 1 more pylon..
Dual or tripple launchers ae very much welcome here..

The LCA can be used in only one roles at a time - either as an interceptor carrying 4 missiles (2 BVRAAM and 2 WVRAAM) or as a bomber - carrying 2 AAMs and 2 ASM/ Bombs/ Rocketpods.
Yeah - I agree it sucks and hopefully by Mk-2 we will free up all 6 Pylons. Actually I wish they could make the delta-wings carry two more pylons at the wingtips.

 

[shashi]

When strategy was technical
R. Swaminathan
24 February 2012

France has always been a difficult ally of the US. Like an extremely talented problem child, France has defied the US time and again. And this cock-a-snook attitude has been most visible in the field of defence and military hardware sales. Some call the French approach business-like, driven by self-interest and realpolitik. Critics, however, describe the French approach as one with a flexible moral compass.

During the 10-year Iran-Iraq war, the French played both sides admirably. While the Iraqis were given French warplanes, Milan anti-tank missiles and Exocet AM 39 anti-ship missiles, the Iranians were subtly directed to the Chinese who supplied them with sea-skimming Silkworm anti-ship missiles to keep the Straits of Hormuz boiling. The interesting point was that the French had secretly supplied the Chinese with the inertial guidance system and the solid fuel technology to the Chinese. But this was still minor indiscretion. The French looked the other way when Iraq acquired highly restricted Maraging Steel, used in uranium enrichment centrifuges, through a complex series of transactions, middlemen, and front companies.

Antony and his team seemed to know this history and felt that the French were more likely to part with critical technologies needed to enhance India's defence aviation sector than any other country. They had their own precedents too. When sanctions were imposed on India, especially on dual use technologies, after Pokhran II the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project was the worst hit. The US, which was supposed to help Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) with crucial cockpit systems, avionics, Fly by Wire (FBW) flight control systems and engines (GE-404), backed out and refused to part with off-the-shelf units as well as the technology. The French decided to break ranks with the US and helped out.

People familiar with the LCA project contend that it's no accident that India preferred to go with a relatively complex tailless compound delta-wing design, a design philosophy followed by the European aircraft manufacturers. Rafale, Typhoon and Gripen are all delta-wing aircraft. Antony and his team were aware of the commonality of design philosophy between Rafale and Tejas. The commonality was strategic as it had the potential to comprehensively transform India's defence aviation sector.

The French support in helping India develop indigenous technological capabilities is by no means small. Three examples will suffice. First, Indian company Samtel, which produces state-of-the-art Heads up Display (HUD) display systems for Tejas and Sukhoi-30 MKI, is a joint venture with Thales, which has a 26% stake in it. Thales is one of a handful of companies in the world with proprietary avionics technology. Second, Dassault, which manufactures Rafale, was initially invited by ADA to provide consultancy services for developing the FBW system of Tejas. Third, when India's efforts to produce an indigenous engine (GTRE GTX-35VS Kaveri) for Tejas with 90 kilonewton (KN) thrust fell flat, it was the French Snecma that stepped in to help the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) finetune the Kabini core of the Kaveri engine. Snecma powers Rafale with its twin M-88-2 engines.

Insiders also revealed that Antony and his team were not convinced about the American intentions to transfer core technologies. Their suspicions had solid grounds. Of course the sanctions imposed on India was one obvious ground, but the way the US pressured Israel, one its closest allies, to abandon the Lavi fighter aircraft project was another. In 1980, the Israel government authorised the Israel Air Force (IAF) to present its requirements and specifications to Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) for the production of a 4th generation fighter aircraft. Called Lavi, it was jointly financed by Israel (60%) and the US (40%). The first prototype flew in 1986 and it became clear that the Lavi was far superior to the F-16, which constituted a substantial chunk of the IAF. The US started putting intense political pressure on Israel to cancel the project, eventually cutting off its part of the funding. Left with inadequate capital Israel abandoned the Lavi project. Rumour has it that Boeing and Lockheed Martin used its clout to put pressure on the US government

Nobody could have anticipated it, but the abandonment of the Lavi project led to the development of a direct threat to India. For the last three decades the Chinese have been on frenetic mission to modernise their armed forces by all means possible. Some military experts are convinced that the Chinese J-10 (manufactured by Chengdu Aircraft Corporation and internally designated as 'Vigorous Dragon') is a copy of the Lavi. The Chinese, of course, deny it. But the similarities between the two aircraft are uncanny. The Chinese do have a track record of using below the belt tactics to achieve their aims. In 2008, a furious Russia threatened to sue China when it copied the Sukhoi-27SK fighters and released them into the export market as Shenyang J-11. Despite the threat, the Chinese continue to produce J-11 and have thumbed their nose at the Russians by copying carrier-based Sukhoi-33 and releasing them as J-11BH.

The best example of Chinese underhand tactics was the way in which they acquired Admiral Kuznetsov-class aircraft carrier Varyag in April 1998 from Ukraine. Some military experts say that China's People Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) floated a front company called Chong Lot Travel Agency Ltd, based it in Hong Kong, and bought the aircraft carrier ostensibly to convert into a floating hotel and gambling parlour. For over ten years the ship disappeared from everyone's radar. Then it finally popped up as fully refurbished indigenous Chinese aircraft carrier for sea trials in August 2011. It will be China's first aircraft carrier.

Antony recognised the Chinese threat and got the previous National Security Adviser M K Narayanan on board. Together they met Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and decided to implement a comprehensive action plan to counter the increasing Chinese muscle. One part of the plan was a concerted upgradation of critical defence equipment. The upgrade programmes of MiG-29, MiG-21, Mirage-2000, Jaguar, T-72 and T-90 tanks are all part of this effort. But a more long-term part of the plan was to upgrade and build India's military industrial base, especially with regard to critical technologies.

Antony knew that India could never go the Chinese way of copying military hardware or reverse engineering technologies. He was clear that while India needed to be self-reliant on critical technologies, it could not do so on its own. It needed reliable partners. Using the blueprint of the successful Indo-Russian venture to produce the world's first supersonic cruise missile, Brahmos, Antony decided to scout for partners who would treat India as equals and at the same help the country develop competencies in critical technologies. This approach has resulted in a partnership with Sukhoi to develop a Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), tie-ups with Israeli companies to develop avionics and cockpit systems and German engineers to develop Arjun Mark II. The selection of Dassault Rafale is only a continuation of this well-thought out policy.