ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Godless-Kafir]

Only 20 mk1 have been ordered. The rest are mk 2.

They had only purchases 40 F-404 engines, with 20 for IAF and 20 for IN. So obviously the rest would be with the 414 engine. Why do you make it sound like every thing is wrong with LCA. If you think you can do a better job then go try and even get job there. If you CANT then you have not much to complain like the rest of us.

 

[plugwater]

I can bet on anything IN wont accept LCA with F-404 engine but we can expect some orders with F-414.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I can bet on anything IN wont accept LCA with F-404 engine but we can expect some orders with F-414.

They have already placed orders, i think some members here think its bad because the media was critical because of the delays. I saw the aircraft in Aero India and it did all the same maneuvers, AoAs the EF and Rafael did. The Gripen has the same engine why dont you talk of the Gripen the same way?

 

[plugwater]

They have already placed orders, i think some members here think its bad because the media was critical because of the delays. I saw the aircraft in Aero India and it did all the same maneuvers, AoAs the EF and Rafael did. The Gripen has the same engine why dont you talk of the Gripen the same way?

No, Navy has not placed any orders for LCA so far. LCA is a 3+ gen fighter and EF is 4+ gen fighter

 

[plugwater]

Atleast he is saying the truth not blindly supporting DRDO products

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Atleast he is saying the truth not blindly supporting DRDO products

I have been critical where it is necessary, the reason being only countries in NATO or supported by west like Israel, Japan, SK indulge in such arms production and they have no qualms in sharing stuff among themselves. Russia does it because of USSR, apart from China there is no other country out side the western sphere of influence that is indulging in all these things like Tanks,Fighters,Missiles etc., at-least successfully. So what we are doing is a hard job starting from scratch and relying on our internal scientific pool.

I was a big time critique as well till i took this criticism and spoke with the scientists in AI. They all sounded so much more ahead of the curve on issues than anyone on the net, i have been on the net since 1996 when i got my own net connection, since then i have been lurking in BR, so i know what the arm-chair critiques worth is and where they are coming from, he talks purely out of ignorance. Reading stuff on the net is misleading, while the reality is they are working hard out there. The GTRE scientists told me that their boss told everyone who is not interested to work more than 12hours can quite and thats the pace they are working.

The point is they are DOING WHAT THEY CAN. They have the SAME INDIAN HEAD as you and me and if it does not work then that genetic fault lies in you too. LMAO. If its not genetic or hard work then you should understand where the problem lies and no amount of our criticism or barking helps.

Edited....

 

[plugwater]

DRDO can do the research for centuries i dont give a rat's ass about that but they should not cheat or make the armed forces wait with false promises.
They should really STFU before they achieve something IMHO.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

DRDO can do the research for centuries i dont give a rat's ass about that but they should not cheat or make the armed forces wait with false promises.
They should really STFU before they achieve something IMHO.

I edited my above post.

I agree the projects are delayed and even if they are delayed how does it harm? They are buying 75% of their stuff outside anyway. Did DRDO stop the purchase of t-90 or MRCA? In the end with a few years delay the Arjun is far better that the T-90.

 

[plugwater]

MMRCA is not a replacement for LCA. Have you not noticed the IAF squadron levels ? LCA was supposed to fill those gaps now see we are below our strength. Dont start with DRDO work ethics!!

Let me tell you something i have some friends working in Avadi tank factory, They are having so much fun man they are saying they are not working at all, all they do everyday is go there and spend the whole day doing nothing and return home.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

MMRCA is not a replacement for LCA. Have you not noticed the IAF squadron levels ? LCA was supposed to fill those gaps now see we are below our strength. Dont start with DRDO work ethics!!

Let me tell you something i have some friends working in Avadi tank factory, They are having so much fun man they are saying they are not working at all, all they do everyday is go there and spend the whole day doing nothing and return home.

I agree they should speed up the process at least now, the production rate of LCA is fatally dismal.

I have seen people go to TCS, Wipro and do nothing. People not working happens in all companies and DRDO is not exception, i agree there could be a lot of bad structuring but the critical scientists at the top level are working hard and they are takeing a lot of heat.

 

[plugwater]

I agree they should speed up the process at least now, the production rate of LCA is fatally dismal.

I have seen people go to TCS, Wipro and do nothing. People not working happens in all companies and DRDO is not exception, i agree there could be a lot of bad structuring but the critical scientists at the top level are working hard and they are takeing a lot of heat.

Some people do not work in Wipro, TCS, etc and some people work in DRDO

 

[pi314159]

I agree they should speed up the process at least now, the production rate of LCA is fatally dismal.

Is this so-called single-source-contractor symptom? The only contractor work in their own pace, and customers have no choice but wait. In the case of LCA, since no domestic reference, nobody really knows if 30 years of development is short or long. If there were a competitor, HAL might do much better. Even the competitor does not compete directly with HAL, say HAL II was building bombers, HAL I would feel pressure.

Along this line of thinking, maybe India should go either US way (private companies fighting for contracts) or China's way (state-owned companies competing for orders)? Well, if either structure is already in place then forgive my ignorance.

 

[ace009]

Is this so-called single-source-contractor symptom? The only contractor work in their own pace, and customers have no choice but wait. In the case of LCA, since no domestic reference, nobody really knows if 30 years of development is short or long. If there were a competitor, HAL might do much better. Even the competitor does not compete directly with HAL, say HAL II was building bombers, HAL I would feel pressure.

Along this line of thinking, maybe India should go either US way (private companies fighting for contracts) or China's way (state-owned companies competing for orders)? Well, if either structure is already in place then forgive my ignorance.

I agree - problem with Govt companies is, unless they have a very compelling reason for doing good work (like in China ), they do not work very well. India should make a couple of private companies to compete with the Govt monopolies ...

 

[pi314159]

I agree - problem with Govt companies is, unless they have a very compelling reason for doing good work (like in China ), they do not work very well. India should make a couple of private companies to compete with the Govt monopolies ...

In China, SAC was the only fighter builder until CAC was created. CAC was underdog in the beginning, it must work extra hard to survive. The result is it rolled out variants of J-7, J-10, J-17, and eventually J-20, in relatively short time, compare to SAC. Now it is SAC's turn to be underdog. Their products like J-11, maybe hard to build but tedious nevertheless, and deserve being called copycat.

 

[p2prada]

some more LCA bashing - what is it with people - they go after a topic like Bulls at a red flag without reading what it is all about.
F404 is a low powered engine? It is only low-powered because it does not match the IAF specs. It is still used by Gripen A/B, as also by the F-18 Hornet.
Anyway, I would love to know more about actual LCA production and timeline.

Read my post just before yours. All I did was confirm Manc's post. How the heck is it LCA bashing?
Only 20 Mk1s will be ordered. That's a simple fact. How are facts called bashing?

If I said, "No. Subramanium is wrong even though he is the director of ADA. He says only 20 but he is secretly building 20 more Mk1s." Does that mean my post is acceptable to you? Just because we made LCA and just because you and I are Indian, does that mean only the "Indian" manufacturer is right while the user says otherwise and we must criticize the user for not being patriotic enough by rejecting the product?

All right let's make it a jingo forum. LCA is awesome. Even though it took time we have a great aircraft. It's is gonna kick Pak and China azz to "event horizon." Once LCA is fully mature with AESA and super stealth and new engine Kaveri K-10 and new naval prototype and XdXdXd new jammer kekekeke! it will even kick F-22 azz to event whorizon. J-20 and even PAkfa will be junior plains.

ADA direcotr is all wrong. LCA Mk1 will be 200 and Mk2 will be 800. He does nto know it yet. But I have uncle, aunty, grandpa, grandma, my first cousin and his second cousin all working in HAL and ADA/....kakekekeke! ololollooll. LCa is awesom. LCA pawns. LCA is rajinikanth's fav car and bike and plane. :LCa will have super range it will go to moon and come back with moon rock. Mk2 wwill go to marssswz and bring back pathfinder.

Whoooleee!!!Q! PPPp!! Kekeke!

Jingo success.

Getting back to some of the points you made. Somehow the less powerful F-404 variant on the heavier than LCA Gripen C/D is enough to power it. But LCA is so awesome that it is lighter than Gripen but needs more power just so it is acceptable to the terms in the ASR. It is so hard to figure out now?

As for LCA's production and timeline. You will have a brief description in wiki if you google LCA timeline. For more detailed info you will have to do a lot of googling from other sites.

What is the production rate of HAL for LCA Mk-1? What is the production rate and time horizon for LCA Mk-2? Can't HAL specify ANYTHING?

Mk1 will be very slow as only 20 are to be made by 2014 and they have to prescribe to the ASR as much as possible. Mk2 production rate will be 8 per year if everything goes right. Due to the small production requirements, HAL has confirmed it will not be scaling up production beyond 8 until bigger orders are given.

Mk2 IOC is required by 2016 after first flight in 2014. FOC in 2018 and that will be a full squadron induction date. Production may continue at 8 to 14 per year depending on order numbers.

I can bet on anything IN wont accept LCA with F-404 engine but we can expect some orders with F-414.

I am hoping the Mk2 orders will be at least 120 for IAF. 200 for both services together will be pretty good as well. But all this only if the Mk2 surpasses ASR minus the AESA radar in initial batches.

 

[p2prada]

Is this so-called single-source-contractor symptom? The only contractor work in their own pace, and customers have no choice but wait. In the case of LCA, since no domestic reference, nobody really knows if 30 years of development is short or long. If there were a competitor, HAL might do much better. Even the competitor does not compete directly with HAL, say HAL II was building bombers, HAL I would feel pressure.

Along this line of thinking, maybe India should go either US way (private companies fighting for contracts) or China's way (state-owned companies competing for orders)? Well, if either structure is already in place then forgive my ignorance.

It is not possible for another 3 decades. Any competitor for HAL or DRDO is going to have a really tough time fighting them because of red tape and other bureaucratic hurdles. You see, our govt and the PSUs don't work, but they don't let others work as well.

Private companies are coming in, but they are not technically competent enough to take up big projects like fighters and tanks yet. A bigger economy will take care of a lot of problems in the future. But it is going to be really tough to get the private sector interested in defence as of now. They have shown some interest in manufacturing, but that's about it. R&D will take at least 30 years to mature, so we can only hope on the lumbering PSUs to deliver on time.

Even slightly lower than required standard but finished products delivered in time will be accepted by the forces in acceptable numbers like how the J-10A worked out for China or JF-17 for Pakistan.

 

[pi314159]

It is not possible for another 3 decades. Any competitor for HAL or DRDO is going to have a really tough time fighting them because of red tape and other bureaucratic hurdles. You see, our govt and the PSUs don't work, but they don't let others work as well.

Private companies are coming in, but they are not technically competent enough to take up big projects like fighters and tanks yet. A bigger economy will take care of a lot of problems in the future. But it is going to be really tough to get the private sector interested in defence as of now. They have shown some interest in manufacturing, but that's about it. R&D will take at least 30 years to mature, so we can only hope on the lumbering PSUs to deliver on time.

Even slightly lower than required standard but finished products delivered in time will be accepted by the forces in acceptable numbers like how the J-10A worked out for China or JF-17 for Pakistan.

Maybe split HAL into two so that no bureaucrat's cheese is moved?

 

[ace009]

Read my post just before yours. All I did was confirm Manc's post. How the heck is it LCA bashing?
Only 20 Mk1s will be ordered. That's a simple fact. How are facts called bashing?

------ both services together will be pretty good as well. But all this only if the Mk2 surpasses ASR minus the AESA radar in initial batches.

My quote wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at a post by a noob and by Badguy, who was trolling - but I can't find those two posts anymore.
You and I have a long standing disagreement about LCA and it's nothing to get upset about - I rarely object to your quotes anymore ...

And thanks for posting the production rate and other info.

 

[ace009]

Maybe split HAL into two so that no bureaucrat's cheese is moved?

What? And create MORE bureaucrats? You do not know India. If HAL has 100 Bureaucrats and only 10 of them do any work (and are needed), then split HAL (say HAL1 and HAL2) and GOI will hire another 100 bureaucrats of which again 10 only will work at HAL2. What's worse, GOI might end up creating ANOTHER agency with 50 new bureaucrats to "oversee" competition between HAL1 and HAL2.

 

[p2prada]

My quote wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at a post by a noob and by Badguy, who was trolling - but I can't find those two posts anymore.
You and I have a long standing disagreement about LCA and it's nothing to get upset about - I rarely object to your quotes anymore ...

And thanks for posting the production rate and other info.

Ah! Then my bad. I did not know there were troll posts after my post.