ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Yusuf]

I don't know why they are not trying the Al 31 for the Tejas? We already have a ToT from Russia for the MKI. Would it not make sense?

 

[Dark Sorrow]

I don't know why they are not trying the Al 31 for the Tejas? We already have a ToT from Russia for the MKI. Would it not make sense?

This is because AL-31 is a big and heavy engine and is designed for heavy class fighter. If it is to be fitted in LCA, the lot of structural modification must be made to LCA making it totally infeiasable. Russian engine tend to be heavy and fuel guzzlers compaired to american engine. If AL-31 is to be used in LCA then so internal components are to be removed to fit the engine, the range of plane will also reduced.
We don't have ToT for AL-31. We just have licance production rights.

 

[EnlightenedMonk]

I don't know about the GE414, but the Eurojet can supposedly also be fitted with optional Thrust Vectoring... should we not go in for that instead ???

 

[vijaytripoli]

why don,t we go for Euro EJ2000( eurofighter platform), because if this engine is selected with tot than chances of wining of eurofighter for the mmrca contract will be certainly high.
what ur thought?
chau

 

[Yusuf]

Be rest assured that the engine that wins this contract will also win the contract for the fighter it powers.

 

[prateikf]

what a waste that we have to buy a foreign engine now. only if the kaveri engine into which so much money and effort was dedicated hadnt failed we would surely have no need to buy a foreign engine to power the LCA.

 

[Angelis]

Ej200 the favorite

The kaveri is not going to power the lca anytime soon. The ge f414 eng with 98 kn of thrust would have won the tender to supply 99 engines for the tejas mach 2, had boeing been partnered to make under-carriage weight reduction, get ioc and then foc. But as things stand boeing is out and eads has been partnered by ada to develop mach 2. So the competition is heavily skewed in favour of ej200. And along with thrust vectoring, a promise to increase thrust by 15% from 90 kn and good tot, the europeon engine would defintely make the final cut.

 

[venom]

Never trust the Americans........... It does'nt matter if the fighter has a bit lesser thrust but atleast it wont have any bugs ........I say we need to go for European engine which is being offered with 3D TVC as well..

 

[proud_indian]

i think F414 will be selected by IAF

 

[icecoolben]

What i really want to know regarding the post is what were the precise air-staff requirements for mach 2 tejas engine when they floated the tender?

 

[icecoolben]

i think F414 will be selected by IAF

i don't think iaf is selecting the engine its ada, so the ej200 is the favorite.

 

[icecoolben]

The lca project has taken long enough, its time india went the step further. At this rate the mach 2 would be out only by 2012, then we will have to develop a naval variant, any possibility that the naval variant would be in production by 2016, the time india's indigenous air-craft carrier meant for tejas rolls out. I think not, so i propose v develop a the naval variant side by side with mach 2. Tejas, with dassault aviation's expertise..

 

[icecoolben]

We had expertise from lockheed martin before 1988, why did v not turn to them and get the contract finished once sanctions were lifted. V are working as if tejas is the aircraft of tomorrow. In fact, as time passes its becoming even more obsolete. Ada should stop issuing tenders, instead work with a single partner all the way and finish the program within schedule.

 

[Sabir]

YouTube - HAL LCA Tejas - Nat Geo Coverage

 

[John]

The kaveri is not going to power the lca anytime soon. The ge f414 eng with 98 kn of thrust would have won the tender to supply 99 engines for the tejas mach 2, had boeing been partnered to make under-carriage weight reduction, get ioc and then foc. But as things stand boeing is out and eads has been partnered by ada to develop mach 2. So the competition is heavily skewed in favour of ej200. And along with thrust vectoring, a promise to increase thrust by 15% from 90 kn and good tot, the europeon engine would defintely make the final cut.

well EADS involvement with tejas is for strengthened undercarriages for the Naval LCA, they are not helping in LCA mk-2. This deal is not favored towards any one and the out come could go either ways. The EJ2000 has 90KN with 15% increased thrust is 103 KN..gr8...The new GE 414 EPE has thrust output of 118KN and 20% lower fuel burn. The GE engine allows the SH to pull unlimited AOA as well and GE had MATV long long time ago induction of MATV wont take any time. This deal will also have mrca connection. GE already knows the LCA and EJ2000 doesnt, GE route will not take as long, GE's EPE engine has been ground tested, the new improved thrust EJ2000 hasn't. GE's engine is combat proven and is very reliable.

whether you trust the US or not the MOD is doing so more and more so get used it. Besides the rfp already calls for the winning engine to be made in India after trails. If the SH is selected for the MRCA the GE 414 EPE will come with full-tot since Boeing is certain to give full-tot on all things except the radar and source codes which depends on what the US congress decides.

 

[icecoolben]

great insights.highly appreciated.

whose in-sights do u mean

 

[icecoolben]

As far as i've heard american companies are only allowed by US laws to only provide tot for local assembly not design of the engines sold to other countries. Besides who told that f414 is going to easily fit tejas, the f414 is a beast compared to its cousin the f404. Both ej200 and ge engine require fuselage modifications on mach 2 thats the reason the tenders for engine and assistance were floated together. Boeing was the only company whose response for rfp suited air-staff requirements .but, boeing's had to be rejected due to congress red-tapes that the fighter's export to third countries would be subject to congress approval . V went for eads who didn't have dassault's fore-sight for a short take off capability for eurofighter during its initial development in 1985 and ended up with a 700 m take off behemoth unable of taking off from a carrier to design the naval tejas, i don't think so. Eads was roped in to get ioc by 2010 the least and foc by 2012 for the basic tejas mach 1 mind u, let alone mach 2 and naval version.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

We had expertise from lockheed martin before 1988, why did v not turn to them and get the contract finished once sanctions were lifted. V are working as if tejas is the aircraft of tomorrow. In fact, as time passes its becoming even more obsolete. Ada should stop issuing tenders, instead work with a single partner all the way and finish the program within schedule.

LM prime help was needed for Fly-by-Wire control laws, aircraft skin and equiptment integration. By the time the sanction were lifted all this jobs were done.
Remaining problem like Afterburing turbofan engine, Multi-Mode Radar and to some extent IRST can't be solved by LM. Their are seperate companies for each item eg Genral Electric for engine, Northrop Grumnen for radar,etc.
Ada is right in issuing tenders to complete the project.

 

[icecoolben]

But hasn't it taken way too long already. There has been something fundamentally wrong with our approach toward tejas.

 

[John]

As far as i've heard american companies are only allowed by US laws to only provide tot for local assembly not design of the engines sold to other countries. Besides who told that f414 is going to easily fit tejas, the f414 is a beast compared to its cousin the f404. Both ej200 and ge engine require fuselage modifications on mach 2 thats the reason the tenders for engine and assistance were floated together. Boeing was the only company whose response for rfp suited air-staff requirements .but, boeing's had to be rejected due to congress red-tapes that the fighter's export to third countries would be subject to congress approval . V went for eads who didn't have dassault's fore-sight for a short take off capability for eurofighter during its initial development in 1985 and ended up with a 700 m take off behemoth unable of taking off from a carrier to design the naval tejas, i don't think so. Eads was roped in to get ioc by 2010 the least and foc by 2012 for the basic tejas mach 1 mind u, let alone mach 2 and naval version.

Boeing is already meeting the 60% tot requirement, now the remaining AESA, EW suites and other avionics will depend on congress clearance, the engine is certainly part of the 60% already being offered because its the engine, radars and avionics that need tot. Boeing has also highlighted its wish for tot on the radar as well, Boeing will offer full-tot if clearance is allowed and no doubt it will be offered to counter the Rafale. The US is the reason for such a competitive deal, they raised the stakes and they will give full-tot once Rafale is in the final 3. Its going to be a last minute bombshell that will put the US companies in advantage.

The Hindu : Karnataka / Bangalore News : EADS to help with LCA programme

EADS help is limited only to LCA-mk1. Its obvious if we take US help for LCA we'll have to respect their position, if the GE 414 is chosen for the LCA mk-2, i am sure any export will require US clearance as well, why would they want to allow us to use and sell their technology as we please. This problem can occur with the EJ2000 too since sure the engine is EU made but the engine control system for the EJ2000 is made by Goodrich (US) which again puts us in a glitch with the US. so either way we'll have US somewhere in there. Even with full-tot no engine maker is going to tell you how to design the engine from scratch or share testing know how, only assembly and fabrication know how is given, any improvement will have to come from the host nation, this will be the same for the M-88 engines, we will be making the engine in India, no doubts but we wont have any way or know how to modify or improve it.