ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[p2prada]

But being in technology development (civilian) myself, I can tell you, no technology is good enough for the customer, unless they are involved DIRECTLY in the development process. That is why apple launched their Iphone and used the consumers usage pattern to make it better in next generations (just a quick example).

Can you tell me how many iphones in the world follow strict user requirements?

I want my iphone's screen to be 2 cm shorter and 1 cm wider, will you deliver? The fact is the users for small electronic equipment are basically "dumb." They don't know what they want, when they want it and for how much.

IAF decides the size, weight, thrust, avionics, costs etc. Their requirements aren't what you can call "dumb." They know what they want and they want a customized "iphone" for all purposes. No matter how good the plane is, if you try to sell the plane with same requirements as IAF to VVS, they will not buy. Similarly, they made PAKFA, but we rejected their aircraft for a superior FGFA design. See the difference.

Now, let's say Apple did customize my phone perfectly. But due to the changes, they missed out on phone call software, which can never be changed again(hypothetically). Do you think I will buy it then? Impossible. LCA Mk1 having a low thrust engine is the same as my user customized phone.

Even if LCA completes all its current objectives, IAF requirements have changed to include a higher thrust engine which cannot be placed on LCA Mk1. So, even if iphone will be improved in future versions, that does not mean the current versions are any good. The same as LCA Mk1.

Conversely, microsoft waited for years to develop a touchscreen based phone O/S and did not involve the consumers with a early release - hence their system still sucks after 6 yrs of their opponents market dominance.

That's the problem. Microsoft knows they cannot compete with Apple if their first release was inferior to the iphone's first version. That's why they tried releasing something that was far too much as an immediate release. Do you know what is it called? It's called COMPETITION. Now do we have that in India? No.

I.E. it is better if the IAF flies the LCA mk1 and complains a lot the whole time than them NOT having a direct stake in the LCA for another 5-6 yrs, till the mk2 comes out.

You have real people flying them. These real people will have to fight other real people in a fight to the death. You want your cannons blowing the brains off of the other guy no matter what. There is nothing left to complain about if our pilot dies because we gave him a sh*tty plane to fly in. We can make another Rang De Basanti movie and replace the Mig-21 with LCA Mk1.

The IAF has a direct stake in Mk2 program. This time IAF technicians will be sitting with DRDO so they deliver in time. They never had any interest in the Mk1 program after Kaveri failed in 2004.

Anyway, I have explained this many times. So, I don't want to get into this again and again.

 

[vikramrana_1812]

IAF wants more improvements in Tejas: Defence minister


BANGALORE: India's indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, which obtained its initial clearance to be eligible for flying by the Indian Air Force (IAF) last month after 27 years in the works, needs more improvement, defence minister A K Antony said Monday.

"The Air Force wants some more improvements to be incorporated, and I am sure the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) will address those concerns too," Antony said, inaugurating an international aerospace seminar ahead of AeroIndia here.

Tejas, which has witnessed a 3,000 percent jump in its development costs, is expected to be inducted into the IAF around December 2012 when the air force would have two fighter squadrons operating the aircraft from Sulur near Coimbatore in Tamil Nadu.

The cost of the aircraft development has shot up from the initial Rs 560 crore allocation in 1983 to Rs.17,269 crore now.

The single-engine, multi-role fighter is powered by the US General Electric's GE-F-404-IN-20 engines. Apart from the two squadrons (40 aircraft) for which it has placed orders, the IAF is expected to acquire five more squadrons (100 aircraft).

The second lot would be powered by the more powerful GE-F414 engines for which the DRDO placed orders late last year.

Antony said the initial operational clearance for Tejas was a proud moment for DRDO, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd and other defence institutions associated with the project.

"Tejas is a system of systems and it just cannot be developed in isolation or manufactured without help from others. Tejas has often been criticized for long delays. In developing Tejas, we have tried to make a world-class combat aircraft," he said.

The minister said that in most parts of the world, technology development preceded product development.

"The desired product is developed, once the right technologies are available and can be put together. However, in the case of LCA Tejas, we attempted both at the same time," he added.

"The reasons are not far to seek. Due to denial of some necessary technologies, we had to find solutions the hard way. Despite all such odds, the engineers and technologists of DRDO and HAL finally handed over the aircraft to the IAF," he noted.

Given the technology and time constraints, Antony said, this had been accomplished in a reasonable time-frame, particularly in comparison to other similar class of combat aircraft in the developed world.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ejas-Defence-minister/articleshow/7446301.cms

 

[thecoolone]

Tejas to soar high at AeroIndia 2011

BANGALORE: Almost three decades after it was conceived and after running up a staggering 3,000 per cent cost escalation, India's indigenously developed fighter will Wednesday for the first time be seen in its true role of a combat jet at the AeroIndia international air show on the outskirts of this aerospace hub.

The Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) has been on view at two previous editions of the biennial trade exposition but either on the ground or as part of a sedate flypast.

"This will be the first time when a fleet of Tejas', including a trainer variant and a naval variant, will be seen in a flying display at the AeroIndia 2011 to showcase its potent strike force," P.S. Subramanyam, direcctor of the state-run Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), told IANS.

ADA, an arm of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has developed the jet, billed as the world's smallest fighter, which has been built by state-owned aerospace major Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Some 10 Tejas' will be on display during the Feb 9-13 show.

Conceived in the mid-1980s as a replacement for ageing Soviet-era MiG-21 fleet of the Indian Air Force (IAF), the real funding for the ambitious LCA programme came in 1993 with the government granting Rs.2.28 billion ($50 million). Till now, Rs.67 billion ($1.5 billion) has been spent on the project.

On the plus side, Tejas received the IAF's initial operational clearance Jan 10, which means it is now ready for induction in the fleet. The first Tejas squadron - 20 aircraft) is expected to be formed by 2014 after the aircraft is fully certified and secures the final operational clearance over the next two years.

At Rs.1.9 billion ($42 million) per aircraft, the first squadron will cost about Rs.38 billion ($836 million), while the second squadron at Rs.2.10 billion ($46 million) each is projected to cost Rs.42 billion ($924 million).

The IAF plans to induct about 200 Tejas aircraft over the years and increase its squadron strength to 39-40 along with 220 of the Russia .-made Sukhoi-30MKI, another 126-194 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) and the fifth generation fighter aircraft that is being jointly developed with Russia.

Tejas is powered by the General Electric (GE) F404-GE-IN20 engine as the homegrown Kaveri powerplant is still undergoing advanced trials. Barring the GE engine and sensitive items such as sensors and high-end components, the entire aircraft, including the glass cockpit, avionics and sub-systems is 65 per cent indigenous, with the figure likely to go up by 15 per cent.

"We plan to use the F404 engines to power the first 20 aircraft the IAF has ordered and the enhanced GE-414 engines for the second order of 20 aircraft, which will be the Mark-2 version, while Kaveri will be used for the trainer and naval variants and the air force variant when they are upgraded a decade later," Subramanyam pointed out.

The aircraft is also capable of carrying assorted weapon load and drop tanks up to four tonnes and on eight hard points.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...igh-at-aeroindia-2011/articleshow/7444923.cms

 

[plugwater]

"We plan to use the F404 engines to power the first 20 aircraft the IAF has ordered and the enhanced GE-414 engines for the second order of 20 aircraft, which will be the Mark-2 version, while Kaveri will be used for the trainer and naval variants and the air force variant when they are upgraded a decade later," Subramanyam pointed out.

So only 20 MK-1 version ?

 

[p2prada]

"We plan to use the F404 engines to power the first 20 aircraft the IAF has ordered and the enhanced GE-414 engines for the second order of 20 aircraft, which will be the Mark-2 version, while Kaveri will be used for the trainer and naval variants and the air force variant when they are upgraded a decade later," Subramanyam pointed out.

Oh! Neat. So, they are going for only 20 Mk1, that's good news. That means all the time I spent hitting my head on the wall was for nothing.

The first squadron will be raised only by 2014.

 

[nitesh]

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories889.htm
LCA: Delayed but still a Milestone Capability

HAL Chairman and Managing Director Ashok Nayak told India Strategic that the IOC reflected "customer confidence" and that the Indian Air Force (IAF) had placed an order for 20 more aircraft in addition to the 20 already ordered.

These first 40 aircraft are to be powered by GE 404 engine, an earlier variant that has been used on F 18 Hornets and Gripen. Boeing's Super Hornet FA 18 E/F and the Swedish Gripen (for India), which are in the fray for IAF's Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (M-MRCA) competition, are powered by the GE 414.

Mr Nayak said that the LCA was "jampacked with avionics, pipelines and wiring" but the Mark II would be a bigger aircraft by a metre, with room to "reallocate" systems. "It will have a fresh internal design with more wiring, bus and whatever although it would be a replica of its predecessor in looks."

IAF is planning to induct 200 LCAs for training and attack role and some more are expected to be inducted by the Indian Navy for shipboard assignments.

Air Chief Marshal Naik described the LCA as a Mig 21++, closer to Gripen in its Mark II development.

A Mig 21 is a very old platform, with limited flying time and onboard missiles. LCA, a fourth generation aircraft, is three times as powerful and can carry modern precision missiles for both air to air and air to ground missions. LCA also has ultramodern quadruplex digital fly by wire controls, a glass cockpit, sensors, multi mode radar and relaxed static stability. In addition, it can fly supersonic at all altitudes.

In fact, pilots flying the LCA are happy at its performance. "It is small and tight but more comfortable, powerful and fun than a Mig 21," said one test pilot.

LCA trials included sea level trials, completed at Goa and Arrakonam, hot weather trials at Nagpur, high altitude trials ay Leh and drop tank jettisoning at Chitradurga range. Night flying tests were also conducted.

The aircraft still has to undergo integration of BVR missiles, gun, rockets, unguided bombs, and expansion of flight envelope to -3.5 to 8 g for Final Operational Clearance (FOC).

 

[p2prada]

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories889.htm
LCA: Delayed but still a Milestone Capability

Mr Nayak has only said IAF has ordered 20 more jets over the existing 20. The Author has assumed all 40 will be powered by F-404 in his own capacity.

In the article thecoolone posted, the director of ADA himself says LCA Mk1 will only be 20 in number. We can take this as a more concrete evidence of Mk1's projected numbers.

On a more general note, it is disappointing to see LCA Mk1 will not be exceeding 8G FBW limitation.

Air Chief Marshal Naik described the LCA as a Mig 21++, closer to Gripen in its Mark II development.

Only Mk2 is expected to equal Gripen's performance.

 

[ace009]

Can you tell me how many iphones in the world follow strict user requirements?

I want my iphone's screen to be 2 cm shorter and 1 cm wider, will you deliver? The fact is the users for small electronic equipment are basically "dumb." They don't know what they want, when they want it and for how much.

IAF decides the size, weight, thrust, avionics, costs etc. Their requirements aren't what you can call "dumb." They know what they want and they want a customized "iphone" for all purposes. No matter how good the plane is, if you try to sell the plane with same requirements as IAF to VVS, they will not buy. Similarly, they made PAKFA, but we rejected their aircraft for a superior FGFA design. See the difference.

Now, let's say Apple did customize my phone perfectly. But due to the changes, they missed out on phone call software, which can never be changed again(hypothetically). Do you think I will buy it then? Impossible. LCA Mk1 having a low thrust engine is the same as my user customized phone.

Even if LCA completes all its current objectives, IAF requirements have changed to include a higher thrust engine which cannot be placed on LCA Mk1. So, even if iphone will be improved in future versions, that does not mean the current versions are any good. The same as LCA Mk1.



That's the problem. Microsoft knows they cannot compete with Apple if their first release was inferior to the iphone's first version. That's why they tried releasing something that was far too much as an immediate release. Do you know what is it called? It's called COMPETITION. Now do we have that in India? No.



You have real people flying them. These real people will have to fight other real people in a fight to the death. You want your cannons blowing the brains off of the other guy no matter what. There is nothing left to complain about if our pilot dies because we gave him a sh*tty plane to fly in. We can make another Rang De Basanti movie and replace the Mig-21 with LCA Mk1.

The IAF has a direct stake in Mk2 program. This time IAF technicians will be sitting with DRDO so they deliver in time. They never had any interest in the Mk1 program after Kaveri failed in 2004.

Anyway, I have explained this many times. So, I don't want to get into this again and again.

For some of your criticisms, I accept that a iphone vs LCA comparison is not a good one. But you are missing the point. It is not a question of "dumb requirements" vs "smart requirements" - it is a question of having a tangible stake. It is OK to ask a foreign vendor to make the product according to our stakes. But remember, the only time in our history, that we have bought a aircraft according to our prescribed specifications was for the MKI. And it took them 10 years to get it from the point we started talking to the Russians (1992-2002). And that is from a existing mature product, with only about ~20% changes to the existing platform. Our efforts for the FGFA should also be a pointer - we started talks in 2002-2003 and the first FGFA delivery may take well into 2022 - 20 years or so, from an existing prototype.
Now think of the LCA - a home grown platform, which needs the support of IAF and the MoD. It has immense growth potential and potential indigenous production in large scale. Actually LCA mk2 (when it matures past IOC) should be mass produced upto a 1000 units to make up for the sheer volume difference between the IAF and PLAAF in case of a war. The IAF should be a development partner all along, including being the first buyer - it is the same story for the new platforms worldwide (Rafael by the French, Gripen by the Swedes).
As for your "real people" flying the LCA mk1, fearing for their lives sound all noble. However, more IAF pilots have died in Mig 21 (and other aircraft) crashes during peacetime than in any war IAF has been involved in. The Mig 21s are called flying coffins for some appropriate reason. Compared to that the LCA has not had a single crash as of yet during hundreds of flights. Now you tell me, What is more dependable as a point defense fighter in case of an outbreak of war, the ages old poorly flying Mig 21s or the brand new, well maintained LCA mk1. Try to be neytral when you answer this. I know you will mention the lack of thrust for the LCA as a hadicap for being a point defense fighter. But a late flying fighter in air is better than a fast-flying fighter crashing to the ground - right?
Anyway, I sincerely hope that the LCA mk1 does not have to participate in any real hostilities and can be replaced in time by the LCA mk2 before any trouble breaks out. By 2018, the IAF should have first few operational squadrons of LCA mk2 and by 2020 all the LCA mk1 a replaced and the LCA mk2.
But the presence of the LCA mk1 in the IAF is still essential for the confidence of the nation, the IAF and the DRDO/ ADA regarding the future of indigenous fighters in the country.

Anyway, only 20 LCA mk1, I have NO quarrels with anyone anymore ... :-D

 

[p2prada]

But remember, the only time in our history, that we have bought a aircraft according to our prescribed specifications was for the MKI. And it took them 10 years to get it from the point we started talking to the Russians (1992-2002). And that is from a existing mature product, with only about ~20% changes to the existing platform.

The time line is actually 1996-2004. Also, we lost 6 years due to integration issues with Israeli and Indian avionics. The Russians had to change their laws to incorporate our stuff in their aircraft. 20% was only external changes. The most changes made were internal(nearly 100%).

Our efforts for the FGFA should also be a pointer - we started talks in 2002-2003 and the first FGFA delivery may take well into 2022 - 20 years or so, from an existing prototype.

FGFA will fly in 24-36 months. FGFA IOC inductions are stated to be 2017-18. 2 to 3 years after PAKFA inductions.

Now think of the LCA - a home grown platform, which needs the support of IAF and the MoD. It has immense growth potential and potential indigenous production in large scale.

The LCA Mk1 has ZERO growth potential.

This from HAL's director:

Mr Nayak said that the LCA was "jampacked with avionics, pipelines and wiring" but the Mark II would be a bigger aircraft by a metre, with room to "reallocate" systems.

That's why I am supporting MK2 inductions. It has better potential for upgrades.

Actually LCA mk2 (when it matures past IOC) should be mass produced upto a 1000 units to make up for the sheer volume difference between the IAF and PLAAF in case of a war.

Will never happen. 1000 LCA's for what? By the time we make it at 8/year it will take a 125 years. Even at 20/year it will be 50 years. Be realistic or your posts will be regarded as trolling.

The IAF should be a development partner all along, including being the first buyer - it is the same story for the new platforms worldwide (Rafael by the French, Gripen by the Swedes).

IAF is a development partner for Mk2. Not for Mk1. Mk1 was only a prototype meant for ADA achieving it's learning curve.

As for your "real people" flying the LCA mk1, fearing for their lives sound all noble. However, more IAF pilots have died in Mig 21 (and other aircraft) crashes during peacetime than in any war IAF has been involved in. The Mig 21s are called flying coffins for some appropriate reason. Compared to that the LCA has not had a single crash as of yet during hundreds of flights. Now you tell me, What is more dependable as a point defense fighter in case of an outbreak of war, the ages old poorly flying Mig 21s or the brand new, well maintained LCA mk1. Try to be neytral when you answer this. I know you will mention the lack of thrust for the LCA as a hadicap for being a point defense fighter. But a late flying fighter in air is better than a fast-flying fighter crashing to the ground - right?

You can't compare serviceability issues to war fighting. The Mig-21 has serviceability issues. But, Mig-21 was a state of the art aircraft through 2 decades after it came out.

The only equal LCA has in the world today is the JF-17. What a joke. Replacing our old Mig-21s with MKI now and MRCA later will go a long way in improving our capability. Mk2 will be needed as well. So, I don't see the point in supporting a platform that will only see 20 aircraft being inducted.

Anyway, I sincerely hope that the LCA mk1 does not have to participate in any real hostilities and can be replaced in time by the LCA mk2 before any trouble breaks out. By 2018, the IAF should have first few operational squadrons of LCA mk2 and by 2020 all the LCA mk1 a replaced and the LCA mk2.
But the presence of the LCA mk1 in the IAF is still essential for the confidence of the nation, the IAF and the DRDO/ ADA regarding the future of indigenous fighters in the country.

The reason why I started this discussion was because of the belief that IAF is being thrust with 40 Mk1 when 20 Mk1 would have sufficed for "confidence of the nation and future of indigenous fighters in the country."

With ADA's words that the initial inductions of Mk1 is only 20 and that subsequent batches will be Mk2, then I have no issues at all. Only 20 of our pilots will be flying re-engineered war coffins. It's an acceptable loss that is followed all over the world for development products. Also, considering all these 20 will be flying out of Bangalore, it means they are primarily for R&D rather than operational flights.

 

[nitesh]

The total production run for LCA MK1 is 40 (includes the trainer and the naval prototypes).

 

[p2prada]

The total production run for LCA MK1 is 40 (includes the trainer and the naval prototypes).

It's numbers I can live with. 20Mk1 for squadron level tests by IAF by 2014 followed by 20Mk2 for new tests after 2016.

Edit: I believed IAF was forced to order a second squadron of Mk1 for tests, which IMO was pretty useless considering Mk1 does not meet requirements.

 

[gogbot]

Oh! Neat. So, they are going for only 20 Mk1, that's good news. That means all the time I spent hitting my head on the wall was for nothing.

The first squadron will be raised only by 2014.

told u i will continue this when more info arose

well you were determined to brand ADA as a company(even though its just a lab) trying to sell Products to the poor IAF who did not have any choice and was being arm twisted into it by the MoD.

There you go 20 fighters for development and field experience , no different then the first squadron of Su-30k's before the MKI.
Still have an issue with Induction and early replacement ?

 

[nitesh]

It's numbers I can live with. 20Mk1 for squadron level tests by IAF by 2014 followed by 20Mk2 for new tests after 2016.

Edit: I believed IAF was forced to order a second squadron of Mk1 for tests, which IMO was pretty useless considering Mk1 does not meet requirements.

I didn't get the drift, when the total number is 40, then all 40 will be used.

 

[ppgj]

So only 20 MK-1 version ?

manc, seems confusion all over. look at these 2 reports from the TOI family of the same day -

The single-engine, multi-role fighter is powered by the US General Electric's GE-F-404-IN-20 engines. Apart from the two squadrons (40 aircraft) for which it has placed orders, the IAF is expected to acquire five more squadrons (100 aircraft).

The second lot would be powered by the more powerful GE-F414 engines for which the DRDO placed orders late last year.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ejas-Defence-minister/articleshow/7446301.cms

now on the same day TOI's own ET reports -

"We plan to use the F404 engines to power the first 20 aircraft the IAF has ordered and the enhanced GE-414 engines for the second order of 20 aircraft, which will be the Mark-2 version, while Kaveri will be used for the trainer and naval variants and the air force variant when they are upgraded a decade later," Subramanyam pointed out.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/7444923.cms

now look at the contradictions between the 2 reports even though the 'quote' is attributed to P.Subramaniam in the second report!!!

however Aviationweek via Tarmak also reported back in october -

The PNC, headed by DRDO's chief controller for Aerospace Systems, Dr. Prahlada, kept a tight lid on the evaluation process, even though the Indian media put its money on the EJ200. "The current order is for 100 engines and you can't rule out the possibility of a repeat order for another 100 in the future," a source says. "Now we will intensify our negotiations with the L-1 [GE Aviation] and iron out all remaining issues. This could take 2-3 months, after which a formal deal will be signed. Tejas Mk-II with GE-F414 will fly in the next three years."

The current lot of Tejas aircraft are flying with the GE 404 engine, and the initial eight limited series production (LSP) versions and the 20 series production will fly with the same engine. The IAF is likely to place an order for 20 more Tejas, and the new engine would be introduced with that batch.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...channel=defense&id=news/asd/2010/10/01/05.xml

now if you read thro' the above article, it says the engines (GE414) will only arrive about 2014-2015. now how will GE414 will power the LCA as to the 'bolded' part of the 1st part of the quote above?? unless they have acquired the GE 414 engines already 'which may not be the same as the ones' contracted for or IOW the present GE414 with 98KN!!! also means ADA has moved far ahead with design changes wrt LCA mark 2 which may be possible!!!

AFAIK and to my understanding from the open sources, this is how i see -

41 GE404IN20 engines were procured (with an option for 20 more - obviously not exercised due to the GE 414 contract) out of which all the LSPs (8) will have this engine. when 20 LCA mark 1 is powered with this engine they will be left with 13 engines. now one of that 13 will power the 'naval variant' which was showcased sometime back(NP 1-prototype, a trainer - i presume). out of the 12 left, even if 4 engines (10% of 41) are kept as 'engine spare reserve'- which is normally the 'norm' - the other 8 engines can be used on the next 5 LCA mark 1s and 3 more trainers apart from PV5 - bringing the total to 36/37 (2 squadrons 'including' the LSPs). IIRC each squadron is 18 (16+2 trainers).

also IIRC 7 GE 404 FJ23 engines were procured which powered the 2 TDs, 3 PVs and the trainer*(*citation required) leaving 1 as spare.

also let me clear myself here. most of the reports talk about 2 squadrons @20/squadron + 8 LSPs = 48, which is more than 2 squadrons!!! i am including the LSPs also as series prodcution aircraft and include them as part of the squadrons.

slightly older report -

The air force had initially hoped that its second order would be for the proposed Tejas Mk.2, powered by either the General Electric F414-GE-400 or the Eurojet EJ200. However, the engine decision has slowed to such an extent that the service has decided to settle for 20 more of the Mk.1s powered by the lower-thrust F404-GE-IN20 turbojet. Deliveries of the 40 aircraft are to occur in 2011-15.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene... 20 Tejas Mk. 1s&channel=&from=topicalreports

FWIW.

.............

@ace009,

LCA mark 1 though would do better with a higher thrust engine is certainly better powered than the existing Mig 21 Bisons, Mirage 2000s, jaguars and the Mig 27s IAF is already operating - which the IAF has no problem operating inspite of 'being more underpowered' than LCA mark 1!!!

here is the T/W ratios of LCA mark 1 as compared to the other aircrafts in the IAF -

T/W RATIOS

LCA M 1...MIG 27**.......M 2000...JAGUAR..MIG 29...SU 30MKI..MIG 21*

0.87........0.65/0.68........0.82........0.57....1.04........1.08........0.85

(*Mig 21's payload is taken for only 560 kg (only 5 hard points) while the rest are calculated at 910kg - common load - a load, i have taken for reference in my past posts, for a fair comparison)

(**Mig 27 t/w is based on both litre/kg config as i could not get the figures in kg)

as one can see only Mig 29/SU 30MKIs have a better T/W ratio as of now but this will change when GE414 powers the LCA mark 2.

LCA mark 2 @98kn gives a t/w ratio of 1 and @118kn gives a t/w ratio of 1.2 (based on the same config of LCA mark 1).

 

[p2prada]

told u i will continue this when more info arose

well you were determined to brand ADA as a company(even though its just a lab) trying to sell Products to the poor IAF who did not have any choice and was being arm twisted into it by the MoD.

There you go 20 fighters for development and field experience , no different then the first squadron of Su-30k's before the MKI.
Still have an issue with Induction and early replacement ?

You are asking me a question I already answered in probably 10 posts.
If active squadron that is directly under IAF is only 1 then I have no issues.

I didn't get the drift, when the total number is 40, then all 40 will be used.

IAF will have 20 aircraft. That's 16 fighters and 4 trainers. They will form an active squadron by 2014. By 2012, IAF will be given 4 fighters. By 2014, after FOC, IAF will be given 16 fighters.

The development prototypes are 8 in number and ADA will use them for wake, lightning tests, flight tests like AOA etc and also system integration.

Then we will have 6 or 8 prototypes for the Navy followed by 4 or 6 twin seat trainers.

So, only 20 aircraft will be under direct IAF command. The rest 20 will be between ADA and Navy. The 8 LSPs will fly from IAF bases, but those are needed for development.

I thought IAF will be getting 2 active squadrons over the Prototypes and trainers.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

You are asking me a question I already answered in probably 10 posts.
If active squadron that is directly under IAF is only 1 then I have no issues.



IAF will have 20 aircraft. That's 16 fighters and 4 trainers. They will form an active squadron by 2014. By 2012, IAF will be given 4 fighters. By 2014, after FOC, IAF will be given 16 fighters.

The development prototypes are 8 in number and ADA will use them for wake, lightning tests, flight tests like AOA etc and also system integration.

Then we will have 6 or 8 prototypes for the Navy followed by 4 or 6 twin seat trainers.

So, only 20 aircraft will be under direct IAF command. The rest 20 will be between ADA and Navy. The 8 LSPs will fly from IAF bases, but those are needed for development.

I thought IAF will be getting 2 active squadrons over the Prototypes and trainers.

Actually the IAF will get 40 odd Tejas Mk1 which is an welcome development! Its a great start for our fighter program.

 

[balai_c]

Guys i am trying to understand aerospace gobbledygook. Could you guys help me get a sort of idiots handbook of aerospace engineering ( i am trying to learn the basics, have absolute zero understanding on aeronautics). Could you help me out? please? I am pursuing electronics engineering , so taking a full time course in aerospace is not possible for me.

P.s:If its off topic , please lead me to the appropriate thread.

 

[gogbot]

You are asking me a question I already answered in probably 10 posts.
If active squadron that is directly under IAF is only 1 then I have no issues.

Well if you did not convince your self IAF was being arm twisted into everything , you would not have had such a headache.
Which as a result lowed your opinion of the Tejas unnecessarily.

Well unless you still want to preach inducting the tejas is waste , its a waste of pilots and all such nonsense

IAF will have 20 aircraft. That's 16 fighters and 4 trainers. They will form an active squadron by 2014. By 2012, IAF will be given 4 fighters. By 2014, after FOC, IAF will be given 16 fighters.

The development prototypes are 8 in number and ADA will use them for wake, lightning tests, flight tests like AOA etc and also system integration.

Then we will have 6 or 8 prototypes for the Navy followed by 4 or 6 twin seat trainers.

So, only 20 aircraft will be under direct IAF command. The rest 20 will be between ADA and Navy. The 8 LSPs will fly from IAF bases, but those are needed for development.

I thought IAF will be getting 2 active squadrons over the Prototypes and trainers.

That fits , current production rate is 4 planes per year.
To be increased to eight sometime in 2012

So that's 4 by 2012 , another 4 by 2013 and the final eight by 2014.
Trainer aircraft have a separate production line.

 

[p2prada]

Well if you did not convince your self IAF was being arm twisted into everything , you would not have had such a headache.
Which as a result lowed your opinion of the Tejas unnecessarily.

Well unless you still want to preach inducting the tejas is waste , its a waste of pilots and all such nonsense

Nope. I still have a very low opinion of the Tejas Mk1. It still serves no purpose beyond helping ADA make a better aircraft. Even after that LCA Mk2 will be equal to or slightly better than Gripen C/D.

I am just happy, IAF is not sacrificing a lot over this.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Nope. I still have a very low opinion of the Tejas Mk1. It still serves no purpose beyond helping ADA make a better aircraft. Even after that LCA Mk2 will be equal to or slightly better than Gripen C/D.

I am just happy, IAF is not sacrificing a lot over this.

This is now sounding ridicilious, to simply repeat and thump the same point even when you cant give any valid points to back your argument does not seem very civil.

This is not USA or Soviet Union who have spent trillions on development and decades on trails. This is just poor old India which could not even make decent cars before this Decade! For our country this is a great start your despair and disappointment can be justified if we still lag behind 20 years from now!

I have been following the Tejas program since 1998 that's almost 13years now and i have seen hundreds of deadlines missed or pass by with frustration, yet i hold back from blind criticism simply because i have been a witness to what they had to go through to get here! Take it from me that this is as good as it gets for what we have payed. Its only a few steps below the Gripen and the Gripen to borrows heavily from the US.