23 Pak troops killed or injured in ambush

[nitesh]

something came today

hmmm:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/LD28Df04.html

Date: Apr 28, 2010

ISLAMABAD - Militants in Pakistan's North Waziristan tribal area on Tuesday issued a statement claiming that skirmishes had broken out early in the morning when the military tried to enter Miranshah, the tribal headquarters. There was no official confirmation.

The United States has placed Islamabad under intense pressure to launch an operation in North Waziristan, which it views as the command and control center of al-Qaeda and from where the powerful network of Jalaluddin and Sirajuddin Haqqani is based for its operations in Afghanistan.

Pakistan has over the past year marched into several other tribal areas to take on militants, including Swat and South Waziristan, but at present a peace agreement is in place between Taliban-led militants in North Waziristan and the military.

However, al-Qaeda linked militants have informed Asia Times Online that a battle in North Waziristan is inevitable to avenge atrocities that the militants claim the military has inflicted on children in the tribal area. The incident took place last week in a brief clash between the army and militants.

The al-Qaeda linked militants are spoiling for a fight even though the chief of the Taliban in North Waziristan, Hafiz Gul Bahadur, has said that last week's contact would not affect the ceasefire.

The militants also want to head off any attempt by the government to create a split in their ranks. In one effort, Islamabad has put in motion an operation that includes a former Iraqi intelligence official who now works for the Saudis, former officials of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and a former Taliban commander who was once a member of parliament.

"It is not an issue of whether the Pakistan army wants a military operation or not. The issue is related to their capacity," Muhammad Umar, a spokesman for the Pakistani Taliban in North Waziristan, told Asia Times Online in a telephone interview. Muhammad Umar is an alias for a non-Pashtun from Punjab province.

"They [the army] are already under siege in North Waziristan. Troops are sitting at checkpoints and cannot even fetch water for themselves from a nearby stream if the militants, positioned all around the mountains, open fire on them."

The situation in North Waziristan is clearly highly volatile as the militants are not united. Many, especially those allied with the predominately Pashtun Haqqani network, want to concentrate all of their efforts on Afghanistan, hence the peace accord with the army. Al-Qaeda-linked militants, including Punjabis, see the state as their enemy, in addition to the foreign forces across the border. The recent abduction of influential powerbrokers highlights the problem.

On March 25, retired squadron leader Khalid Khawaja, a former ISI official, traveled to North Waziristan to interview Sirajuddin Haqqani and Waliur Rahman Mehsud. He was accompanied by Colonel Ameer Sultan Tarrar, also a former long-time ISI official and once Pakistan's consul-general in Herat in Afghanistan. Tarrar is nicknamed "Colonel Imam" by the mujahideen as he was instrumental in helping raise the Taliban militia.

The men have not been seen since and Punjabi militants calling themselves the "Asian Tigers" said they had seized the men. Subsequently, Asia Times Online received several video clips of Khawaja speaking. (See Confessions of a Pakistani spy Asia Times Online, April 24, 2010.)

The militants believe Khawaja was a part of a joint international operation trying to isolate the al-Qaeda-linked militants.

Asia Times Online has leaned that Khawaja and Colonel Imam wanted to hammer out a formula of peaceful coexistence between militants and the military in North Waziristan, and in the broader context to seek a way for the US to withdraw from the region in such a manner that the Taliban would have a role to play in Afghanistan and Pakistan would have a friendly government in Kabul.

The initiative was stopped in its tracks with the abduction of the peacebrokers and in the video clips Khawaja, most likely under duress, spoke out against Pakistan's military establishment.

The message between the lines from the militants is that the role of the Pakistan army in Afghan affairs through any Islamist or non-Islamist cadre is over; that is, the war is exclusively between the West and Muslim militants, and no "referee" is required.

Two sides of the story

Khawaja was retired from the air force in the late 1980s after he wrote a letter to the then-president, General Zia ul-Haq, in which he called him a hypocrite for not enforcing Islam in Pakistan. He then went to Afghanistan and fought alongside Osama bin Laden. He was a recruiter and trainer of Pakistani fighters for the resistance against the Soviets.

After his forced retirement, Khawaja was active in politics, from trying to stitch together an Islamic election alliance in 1988 against the Pakistan People's Party's government to the so-called Operation Khilafat, an alleged plot of some military officers and jihadis to stage an Islamic revolution in Pakistan in the mid-1990s. Khawaja and former US Central Intelligence Agency director James Woolsey worked unsuccessfully after the September 11, 2001, attacks on the US to prevent the invasion of Afghanistan.

Khawaja tricked a radical cleric into being arrested during the crackdown on the Taliban-sympathetic Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) in the capital, Islamabad, in mid-2007. Yet he has been active in providing support to the families of members of al-Qaeda who have been arrested or killed. Earlier this year he filed a case that prevented captured Taliban commander Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar from being handed over to the Americans or the Afghan government.

Depending on the issue, Khawaja is clearly not afraid to act in the establishment's interests, or against them, and he is equally comfortable speaking to Americans or with the ISI.

Along with an American friend, Mansoor Ejaz, who was close to right-wing Republicans, Khawaja worked on a project for peace in South Asia. In this regard he gave a detailed interview to Asia Times Online to promote his theme that the international proxy war in the region should be stopped. (See The pawns who pay as powers play June 22, 2005.)

Before his ill-fated trip to North Waziristan, Khawaja spoke to Asia Times Online, saying that a few veterans of the Afghan jihad (against the Soviets) were now coming together.

"It would be premature to tell you the details, but I will soon give you a breaking story about a mechanism under which these suicide attacks in Pakistan will be stopped completely," Khawaja said. He also pointed to the involvement of a renowned Arab, Mehmud al-Samarai, earlier wanted by the Americans for financing militants in Iraq but now known to be helping Saudi Arabia's peace efforts in Afghanistan.

Pakistani Taliban spokesman Umar gave his version of Khawaja's trip to North Waziristan.

"Khalid Khawaja, Colonel Imam and a [former] Iraqi intelligence agent [Mehmud al-Samarai] and Shah Abdul Aziz [a commander during the Taliban regime and a former member of parliament] visited North Waziristan about a month and a half ago. They were all old mujahids who fought against the Russians, therefore they were all treated with respect. However, everybody noticed their suspicious activities," Muhammad Umar told ATol.

"They met the chief of the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan [Pakistani Taliban] Hakeemullah Mehsud, Mufti Waliur Rahman Mehsud [chief of the Taliban in South Waziristan] and the Khalifa Sahib [Sirajuddin Haqqani]. Khawaja brought with him a list of 14 commanders and he tried to convince Hakeemullah Mehsud and Waliur Rahman Mehsud that all those commanders, including Qari Zafar [a leader of the Pakistani militant group Lashkar-e-Jhangvi] and others are Indian plants among the mujahideen and the Taliban should get rid of them. Both Hakeemullah and Waliur Rahman were tolerant of those allegations against their own commanders and they were silent. However, these people did some other things which made them suspicious," Umar said.

"They tried to convince Hakeemullah Mehsud and Waliur Rahman Mehsud to stop attacking the Pakistan army and discussed a mechanism to target NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization] supply lines only. They offered to help Hakeemullah set up pockets in different parts of the country from where they could attack NATO supplies going to Afghanistan.

"Shah Abdul Aziz was then spotted asking people the names of the militants who [last December] attacked the Parade Lane Mosque in Rawalpindi [several army officers were massacred along with 17 of their children]. At the same time, the visiting group met with Khalifa Sahib and urged him to keep his connection with the army. They asked him what kind of weapons he required and they would arrange it for him," Umar said.

Umar said that during Khawaja's first visit, he used Mufti Mehsud's four-wheel drive vehicle. A few days after Khawaja and the others returned to Islamabad, the same vehicle was hit by a drone.

"You know that the Pakistan army aims to keep the Taliban divided as good and bad Taliban. The Afghan Taliban are good for them and the Pakistani Taliban are bad. We don't have such distinctions. If we get proof that a person has a connection with the ISI, whether he is bad or good, he is an enemy. As far as Khawaja is concerned, he confessed that he was sent by an ISI officer. We have reports that he frequently meets with the CIA and arranges meetings of other people with the CIA in return for money," Umar said.

"Khawaja and the others left North Waziristan with assurances that he would soon come back with a British journalist. We all compared notes and concluded that he had come with an agenda and he would come back again. As was expected, he came back and we caught him immediately. The journalist he brought with him also worked for the ISPR [Inter-Services Public Relations) for documentary-making projects. Therefore, they were all the Pakistan army's assets and our enemies and they will be dealt with according to their crimes. It has been decided," Umar said.

The Pakistan army, the Americans and the militants each have their own plans, and they are all at a critical juncture.

Pakistan's military anticipated that the US would be defeated in Afghanistan and therefore there was no need to wage all-out war in the Pakistani tribal areas. Rather, they wanted to keep operations at a level where hostilities would remain minimal and once the Americans left, Pakistan and the militants would restore their traditional strategic relations.

"That illusion went away under General Kiani's command," a senior US official told Asia Times Online in reference to Pakistani army chief General Ashfaq Pervez Kiani.

"The militants showed so much hostility that the military had to wage an all-out war against them. However, the situation in North Waziristan terrifies them [the army]. Sirajuddin Haqqani has a strong 4,000 armed militia [besides Hafiz Gul Bahadur's men, al-Qaeda, Uzbeks, Chechens and other militias]. The army thinks that if they launch an operation in North Waziristan, the militants will occupy South Waziristan again and the military will be unable to fight them," the official said.

However, the Americans aim to provide full support through their unmanned drones, which target militant leaders, as they have been doing for some while. The aim is to eliminate the major Taliban networks and support bases and then make preparations for a US withdrawal from the region.

However, as illustrated by the Khawaja case, sections of the militants are in no mood to talk, other than through the barrels of their guns.

Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He is writing an exclusive account of al-Qaeda's strategy and ideology in an upcoming book 9/11 and beyond: The One Thousand and One Night Tales of al-Qaeda. He can be reached at [email protected]

(Copyright 2010 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)

 

[nitesh]

This thread is crap. I don't know why everyone is doing so much of analysis over a news that 23 Pakistani soldiers have died/injured whatever.
The girl is right when she says,"Respect my soldier". A soldier is a soldier no matter which country he/she belongs.
It's not a soldier's prerogative to decide and judge whose war they are fighting.Why they are fighting. Their job is to follow orders.Not to question.

So , why are we talking about, who created the Taliban, cavemen in this thread.Whatever some guys have said over here doesn't ring the common sense in me.I think by the third/fourth post this thread was derailed.

Was this thread declared a RIP thread by the stater at the time of start? No it was not done hence it is perfectly justified to discuss the circumstances which lead to there killing and unfortunately that is there own organization's greediness to use terrorism as a tool

 

[Soham]

How about shutting it off ?
RIP to the soldiers again !

 

[nitesh]

How about shutting it off ?
RIP to the soldiers again !

Why shut if off? Because the questions raised are un comfortable?

 

[hit&run]

This thread could have been a RIP thread if the thread starter mentioned it. As he failed to mention it people started discussing why such things happen , who created the mess and what should be done to clean this mess for ever .

Exactly. We can have such RIP threads for all fallen soldiers were my dear Indian fellows can pay their tributes to them. Like we have one for Air craft crash notifications thread.

No one disrespected Pakistani soldiers but Pakistani members were not able to control the frustration and started (both indian and Pakistani) trolling extensively with references of LTTE, Kashmir and CRPF etc. I mean i felt like wtf we are saying tomorrow someone will open a thread for Germans those who killed Jews then Japanese those who did HRV then for East Pakistani troops those who raped 100s women in Dhaka university.

Things could have been less dirty then this if we could have unanimously discussed about the waste of life for a cause when the same nation was investing to protects his clients before, for a magical strategy. I have seen the trend when Pakistanis after simply refusing the facts started accepting the truth what we were shouting from the roof.
I have quoted more the 7 school of thoughts were it is clearly stated that Pakistan is over manipulative and the whole nation is suffering from that. It is easier to say that war was thrust upon us but the question will be why the war was trust upon you?

I have read an American article wrote post 9/11 where they have mentioned how Pakistan when left dry post Russian withdraw started cultivating Taliban and what would be their (US) policy to destroy this mess. Also in that article they were already suggesting to attack Pakistan as well and (to my surprise) a grand strategic of AFPAK was drafted in that as well. What American are talking today is the same they were talking way back. Nothing has changed so far for USA but for Pakistan thrice a year lol which proves what we Indians were telling the world and what they smelled/traced post 9/11 was absolutely the same.

As Singh was mentioning that their is line of thinking upon which Indians talk and very rightly we have another profound line of thinking that we are a nation which do not believe in such proactive confrontations like Pakistan. I can claim here today that next generation of non war warmongering Pakistanis will definitely ask this present generation a question ''what was the need for all this''. Can any one from Pakistan can tell me the answer. Before posting more news articles how Pakistan is destroying Taliban which is too late to be cherished about for us.

 

[nitesh]

hit & run please lok in to the post number 204 which again points out towards what we are saying

 

[Singh]

All threads go off tangent at some point, it is inevitable. However, we have had some good discussions on the concerned topic and I don't mind if some tangential discussions also occur.

 

[maomao]

@ maomao

Article dated Tuesday, 1 December 2009, today its 27th April 2010, with PA kicking the hell out of them

plus old videos


as for Taliban & blochistan, The Quetta Shura has been effectively made ineffective with 11 out of 16 members killed or captured, do some research before coming down to rant with old articles

Taliban Quetta Shura Leaders Killed or Captured


"¢ Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar directed the Quetta Shura. Baradar was the Afghan Taliban's second in command and the group's operational commander, and was detained in Karachi sometime in January or February 2010.
"¢ Maulvi Abdul Kabir led the Peshawar Regional Military Council before he was captured by Pakistani intelligence in February 2010. He served as the Taliban's former shadow governor of the eastern Afghan province of Nangarhar, as well as the governor of Nangarhar during the Taliban's reign.
"¢ Mullah Mir Mohammed served as the shadow governor in the northern province of Baghlan. He was detained in February 2010.
"¢ Mullah Abdul Salam served as the shadow governor in the northern province of Kunduz. He was detained in February 2010.
"¢ Mullah Dadullah Akhund was the Taliban's top military commander in the South. He was killed in May 2007 by British special forces in Helmand province.
"¢ Akhtar Mohammad Osmani was a member of the Quetta Shura and was the Taliban's chief of military operations in the provinces of Uruzgan, Nimroz, Kandahar, Farah, Herat, and Helmand, as well as a top aide to Mullah Omar. He also personally vouched for the safety of Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar. He was killed by Coalition forces while traveling near the Pakistani border in December 2006.
"¢ Mullah Obaidullah Akhund was the Taliban Defense Minister during the reign of the Taliban from 1996 until the US toppled the government in the fall of 2001. He was close to Mullah Omar. His status is uncertain; he has been reported to have been arrested and released several times by Pakistani security forces. He was last reported in Pakistani custody in February 2008.
"¢ Mullah Mansur Dadullah Akhund, who is also known as Mullah Bakht Mohammed, replaced his brother Mullah Dadullah Akhund as the top commander in the South during the summer of 2007. His status is uncertain; he was last reported to have been arrested by Pakistani security forces in January 2008 but is thought to have been exchanged as part of a hostage deal.
"¢ Anwarul Haq Mujahid was a member of the Peshawar Regional Military Shura and the commander of the Tora Bora Military Front, which is based in Nangarhar province. He was detained in Peshawar in June 2009. Mujahid is the son of Maulvi Mohammed Yunis Khalis, a senior mujahedeen leader who was instrumental in welcoming Osama bin Laden into Afghanistan after he was ejected from the Sudan in 1996.
"¢ Mullah Ustad Mohammed Yasir was the chief of the Recruitment Committee and a Taliban spokesman before he was arrested in Peshawar in January 2009.
"¢ Mullah Younis, who is also known as Akhunzada Popalzai, was a former shadow governor of Zabul. He served as a police chief in Kabul during Taliban rule. He was captured in Karachi in February 2010.

Here you Go! i think Todays article will satisfy you!

North Waziristan poses a formidable challenge



PESHAWAR: A steady escalation in attacks on security forces in South Waziristan and Mehsud tribesmen's reluctance to return home has thrown up a formidable challenge to the government to deal with militant leaders in neighbouring North Waziristan Agency — the real bastion of Tehrik-i-Taliban.

Casualties have been mounting in South Waziristan. Since the beginning of this month, roadside bombings, ambushes and raids by militants affiliated with Hakeemullah Mehsud now ensconced in North Waziristan, have inflicted rising losses on the security forces. Now the military is back to the drawing board in search of new options.

Since the launch of Operation Rah-i-Nejat (Path to Deliverance) on Oct 16, the military has lost close to 200 men — on an average 25 men a month. Another six hundred have been wounded.

There has been a gradual fall in casualty figures since the launch of the operation last winter, but what could become a source of alarm and anxiety for the military is the steady rise in casualties from roadside bombings, ambushes and raids from militants operating from North Waziristan.

Majority of these attacks inside South Waziristan have come from North Waziristan, which is serving as a new home and base to the TTP leadership and its hordes of fighters, government officials say.

"The casualty figure is still not cost-prohibitive," a government official said. "It may become untenable if the casualty figure continues to rise and touches the four digit mark."

How do things stand in South Waziristan?

The military says it has direct control over 75 per cent of the approximately 2,419 square kilometres of Mehsud territory in South Waziristan, which includes major towns, roads and communication networks.

The military has an indirect control and influence in the remaining 25 per cent peripheral area which, officials say, provide space to militants to sneak back into the territory and carry out attacks.

"There has been an increase in attacks," military spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said. "When the force is overstretched and operating in a forested countryside, you come under attack."

With a limited operation in Shawal area last month, the military has pretty much completed major combat operations.

"The next phase is likely to be more of a search and cordon operations" is how one official put it.

THE MEHSUD CONUNDRUM: Despite the military's overwhelming presence, Mehsud tribes have shown little inclination in returning home.

Their return, which was scheduled to start on April 15, could not take place despite prodding and pressure tactics by the administration, including the stoppage of cash assistance from March 31.

The Mehsud tribes have agreed, albeit grudgingly, after a lot of cajoling and behind-the-scene arm-twisting, to return home.

But they have made it clear that while they would take full responsibility for the populated area (under direct army control), they would not be in a position to discharge their territorial responsibility in peripheral area (where the army has indirect control and has been the source of major trouble).

"Fear of the return of TTP leaders, the likes of Hakeemullah and Qari Hussain, still haunt them. They fear that the TTP will catch up with them in their own villages," an official said.

There is no way you can allay their apprehensions as long as the TTP leadership is alive and kicking, the official said.
This is despite assurances by the administration that the military would continue to stay in South Waziristan to protect the Mehsuds from militant attacks.

"Somehow we have not been able to give them the confidence they need," acknowledged a senior government official.

To add further to their woes, the TTP leaders have warned fellow Mehsud tribesmen against returning to their soil to avoid being trapped in the cross-fire.

The result: Mehsudtribal elders are not only reluctant to play ball by assuming collective tribal responsibility but have also failed to hand over 392 tribal militants, including TTP leaders.

Government officials now acknowledge it would take longer than they had anticipated in bringing the operation to a successful close.

The repatriation is now expected to start from middle of next month, only if and when the administration and the Mehsudtribal chiefs reach an agreement on modalities, yet to be worked out.

Some circles within the government are even willing to call the Mahsuds' bluff.

"If they are not going, then they are not going. We have the patience," the government official said.

"The whole premise of their tribal system is based on collective responsibility and if they say that they are not capable of doing that, we might as well consider changing the administrative system. What is the fun in continuing with a system that is not delivering," he argued.

Officials also grumble over the role of some present and former parliamentarians from the volatile region, for pre-empting Mehsudtribal elders from reaching an agreement with the administration – a charge they vehemently deny.

"They want to drag the situation to a point where the government is compelled to agree to some sort of coexistence with the militants to perpetuate their political relevance," an official remarked.

"They are political wrestlers whose influence will have to be decisively neutralised."

MANAGING THE CONUNDRUM: There is a near consensus within the civil and military establishment over the source of problem: North Waziristan.

"Eighty to ninety per cent of the trouble in South Waziristan is because of the presence of militant leadership and their uninterrupted ability to infiltrate and conduct attacks from North Waziristan," the official said.

"The source of the problem is in North Waziristan and it will have to be addressed," the official said.

North Waziristan is fast becoming a whole new dilemma for Islamabad and Rawalpindi, which have so far successfully resisted pressure from Washington to launch a full-scale operation in the militant-infested region.

The government, which had entered into an understanding with the top militant commander Hafiz Gul Bahadar to stay neutral and not side with the TTP in the military operation in South Waziristan, has now begun to doubt his ability to rein in the new guests from the neighboring tribal region.

Indeed, government officials believe, that the TTP chief enjoys more muscle and support in North Waziristan.

Also, efforts by the political administration in the regional headquarters of Miramshah to pressure the Utmanzai and Dawar Wazirs to lean on Hafiz Gul Bahadar to expel the TTP from the area have had no headway.

The TTP has been driven from its stronghold of South Waziristan, but officials acknowledge that its ability to plot and organise attacks in Pakistan remains intact.

"The attacks are fewer in number but bigger in impact," a law enforcement official said. "They are recuperating from the initial shock. Their nexus with the Punjabi Taliban has given them greater outreach," the official said.

"We already have our plate full," Maj-Gen Athar Abbas, the ISPR chief, said. "To open another front of the scale of Swat and South Waziristan requires considerable resources. It will take time and will have to wait," he said.

"The availability or non-availability of resources is our issue number one and then we cannot afford to set off a new crisis of internally displaced people from North Waziristan, while we still have over three hundred thousand Mahsuds to look after.

"Till resources are made available, we will have to manage North Waziristan," the official said.

Nevertheless, government officials say they continue to evaluate and assess the situation on an almost daily basis.

Any escalation in attacks both within the tribal region and down country, they warn, may tip the balance in favour of an early military action. "This summer is going to be very, very hot for all stakeholders," the senior official said.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...h-waziristan-poses-a-formidable-challenge-740

 

[nitesh]

@Nitesh

Sir i thought thats a simple logic wherever a soldier dies - the civilians pray for him regardless of what nationality he belongs to. Its like an Indian soldier dies in Kashmir and some other Pakistani fellow says to me why did you pray for him............. To hell with the hostility that poor soldier died for the sake of his Country......... What is he to do with the enemity? if you cannot say anything good better not reply - why started cursing the soldiers who are martyred for his country. I don't care wherever he died if its in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh or worst country in the world what matters to me the most is he was serving his country. I thought its a defence forum and here peoples would know the honour of a soldier..........they would know how to respect a soldier regardless of his nationality............ didn't know you have to say in the first post that the person has been martyred so you all start repeating RIPs............

My opinion only

Sir where did I cursed them? I only pointed out towards the root of the killing which is your state following the policy of using terrorism as a tool and they are fighting own country men and subsequently i am pointing towards the systematic killing of your own countrymen by your own army which is not helping towards reaching solution and pointed out the mindset has to change to get rid of this nuisance which has been creation of your own

Don't twist the point if you don't want to see the reality. There is a constant effort from my side to point out towards the root cause.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

on very first page Nitesh asked against who?

I simply said against cavemen & simply said him don't dare to insult them, I never said that he insulted them

but he said remain on topic, i said all right, then he himself brought in the 'who, how & why', I never brought it in, The Admin himself dragged me into the discussion

I never asked you people to give say RIP etc, but at the same tell, you are no one, no one to question our dead

 

[DaRk WaVe]

EmO with Iran going Nuclear there is great pressure on the Saudi's. Do you see the Saudi's asking Pakistan for a couple of nukes in return of oil and loads of cash?

Indians are in a misperception that Pakistani Nukes are some kind of 'international property', any one can get it any time without any problem.....

 

[Zaki]

Sir where did I cursed them? I only pointed out towards the root of the killing which is your state following the policy of using terrorism as a tool and they are fighting own country men and subsequently i am pointing towards the systematic killing of your own countrymen by your own army which is not helping towards reaching solution and pointed out the mindset has to change to get rid of this nuisance which has been creation of your own

Don't twist the point if you don't want to see the reality. There is a constant effort from my side to point out towards the root cause.

Yeah i remember you were praising them couple of posts ago? All posts deleted so i can't prove your complements any longer

 

[nitesh]

on very first page Nitesh asked against who?

I simply said against cavemen & simply said him don't dare to insult them, I never said that he insulted them

but he said remain on topic, i said all right, then he himself brought in the 'who, how & why', I never brought it in, The Admin himself dragged me into the discussion

Don't twist again I said two things in that post 1. These are your own country people
2. To stay on topic
So if some body is asking you who is responsible of these killings you can choose to respond or not to respond you have chosen to respond and the fact is that this is your own.

I never asked you people to give say RIP etc, but at the same tell, you are no one, f-king no one to question our dead

Who is questioning the dead if any member has done that use the report button don't blabber unnecessarily. People are pointing here the root cause.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Don't twist again I said two things in that post 1. These are your own country people
2. To stay on topic
So if some body is asking you who is responsible of these killings you can choose to respond or not to respond you have chosen to respond and the fact is that this is your own.

Nitesh: defending there country from whom?
Emo Girl:from cavemen .................

don't dare to insult our soldiers please, it can get dirty

Nitesh:Creation of whom? the truth lies here your army is busy killing own country men only

If you can stay on topic

so god damn topic was ambush not who created them, you were blaming me for going off topic when u went off topic in your very first post & got burnt when u saw SOB saying RIP

Who is questioning the dead if any member has done that use the report button don't blabber unnecessarily. People are pointing here the root cause.

& i was talking about simple thing, Killing is killing whether its by 5.56 mm or 155 mm

I know your coming back to edit it or you can simply ban me & argue among yourselves

 

[Yusuf]

Ok what has happened before in this thread should be dead and buried and move forward. If there is nothing more to add, then exercise the right to ignore.

 

[nitesh]

Nitesh: defending there country from whom?
Emo Girl:from cavemen .................

don't dare to insult our soldiers please, it can get dirty

Nitesh:Creation of whom? the truth lies here your army is busy killing own country men only

If you can stay on topic
so god damn topic was ambush not who the F U C K created them, you were blaming me for going off topic when u went off topic in your very first post & got burnt when u saw SOB saying RIP

Uh ok so your soldiers got killed I questioned by whom you answered that by cavemen I said these cavemen are your own country people and creation of your own greediness that's it.
I am pointing towards root cause of the issue

& i was talking about simple thing, Killing is killing whether its by 5.56 mm or 155 mm

I know your coming back to edit it

Don't try to divert topic again

 

[Zaki]

Uh ok so your soldiers got killed I questioned by whom you answered that by cavemen I said these cavemen are your own country people and creation of your own greediness that's it.
I am pointing towards root cause of the issue



Don't try to divert topic again

Can't you really distinguish between the civilians and the terrorists? Are you not aware of the fact that number of foreign so-called Mujahideens too died in Swat and Waziristan? Why do you pick only smaller issues and ignore the biggers facts? why can't you see the picture in a broader way?

I do know local civilians are too brain-washed and co-operating with militants but are you forgetting its a whole bunch of organisation having recruited peoples from Afghanistan, Kyrgystan, Uzbek, Tajik, Malaysian, indonesian and even some black africans were caught in Karachi. Haven't you witnissed the corpses of these foreign militants in Swat and Waziristan. Obviously we have no idea where people came from - apparently by using Afghan-Pakistan border........ but we are doing our best to clean this mess as soon as possible...... It won't be a bad idea if you instead of getting worrying about Pakistan concentrate on your country first

We have already done pretty well - the problem is if we clean up the miss - indian bollywood news channels starts reporting of Genocide and if they do not clean up the mess they keep shouting of terrorism

 

[A.V.]

OK enough on this thread because it going nowhere i gave links to other threads to discuss taliban its the same logic going over for 15 pages discuss the taliban , the founders .the effects the creators on a new thread spare this thread please and all the personal accusations must stop here this is a polite request

 

[DaRk WaVe]

As I said which will I repeat again, the militants are lying low and will rise when fatigue sets in army. Look at swat, the militants have started the targeted killing of pro-government elders in swat.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if militants have been crushed by PA as you would like us to believe, then why there is no respite in suicide bomb attacks in Pakistan. They are happening almost on a daily basis. This indicates that militants are still active and are biding their time.

& i will repeat that same thing was said before SW operation & nothing has happened, holding ground thing is been in favor of security forces for now, The target killing is a different issue, it is no way related to holding ground, even in a fantasy Taliban cannot come back in swat taking not consideration PA will be permanently stationed in swat & FC & police are becoming an effective counter insurgency force, as for suicide bombings, they are dispersed & suicide vest are not a big thing for them to manufacture, they are in pockets only, there is no 'strong hold' left, the articles are only aiming at criticizing PA for not going into NW, when there is no point in doing it for now, we won't do exactly what americans will tell us

Thank Pakistan's stars that BM and Hakemullah Mehsud were taken out by drones. But taliban has no leadership dearth, now they have wali-ur-rahman to take care of Pakistani taliban and now they are in North waziristan. PA has hardly killed any of t he main leaders of Taliban movement. All the figures of terrorists killed by PA was given out by ISPR and was never independently verified so it is hard for other to believe any of the statistics put out by ISPR.

open your eyes& go back, come back & tell me where i said Pakistan takes the credit of killing BM & hakeem, I was replying to the line which said that 'Taliban leaders have relocated'

The reason PA is not going into North Waziristan is simple, the sarkari Taliban (or PA backed Taliban faction) comprising of Haqqani group, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar groups reside here and they are ones hosting Pakistani Taliban now.

Not only that, recently they also kidnapped two former ISI spies and have put them at the brink of sacrificing their heads. All this doesn't bode well for Pakistan.

Wrong, it ain't that simple, Indians must stop simplifying things, the haqqani group is getting nailed by drone attacks, I have mentioned it before as for Hekmatyar, he is only faction which is some what been talked to by US & afghan Gov, just get some Talibs on track & split them in groups, US is only apparently talking

the fear will remain there, you cannot completely remove it within such a short period

 

[Zaki]

OK enough on this thread because it going nowhere i gave links to other threads to discuss taliban its the same logic going over for 15 pages discuss the taliban , the founders .the effects the creators on a new thread spare this thread please and all the personal accusations must stop here this is a polite request

Thank you - I was just getting ready for an online warfare on DFI............. Glad to see everything under control once again

@ Topic

RIP to the brave soldiers of Pakistan once again - Thread Closed