United States To Lease Or Sell A Nuclear Submarine To Australia

[Kunal Biswas]

If you read my post, I said there Military Histroy..

I am talking about there military culture just like ours..

=================

In Politically sense, its a different story just like Ours..

Kunal, while in a broader sense, it is correct to assume that Aussies are not sissies; but given their recent responses to multilateral exercises & war-games targeted at China, they indeed behaved as sissies.

 

[TrueSpirit]

If you read my post, I said there Military Histroy..

I am talking about there military culture just like ours..

=================

In Politically sense, its a different story just like Ours..

I read & understood it, Kunal. And, you are right in a general sense. That's why I said:

Their past military exploits cannot cover for their sissiness against PRC they have been displaying since last few decades.

 

[apple]

Ok, this might sound OT but is not:

Yeah it is OT. On topic would be mentioning that Australia is modernising and doubling its submarine fleet. Why would Australia be acquiring more submarines, particularly when our current ones are quite new... Think about it a bit (and no the answer is not India before one of this forum resident trolls gets excited).

Kunal, while in a broader sense, it is correct to assume that Aussies are not sissies; but given their recent responses to multilateral exercises & war-games targeted at China, they indeed behaved as sissies.

This trend had started out in 80'sAfter spending a decade in Vietnam, Confronting Indonesia, and continuing to maintain a presence in Malaysia, it would be fair to say Australia was quite pacifist in the 80's. Although, conversely we had no threats nor situations which required military intervention then., became more visibly pronounced in 90'sYour wrong there. Somalia, Gulf War 1, East Timor, Solomon Islands, Gulf War 2, Afghanistan & is climbing unprecedented levels in 21st century We are still fighting wars in Afghanistan, and (to a much lesser extent) Iraq, as well as, maintain a military presence in The Gulf, Malaysia, East Timor and the Solomon Islands. As well, we are acquiring new amphibious capabilities, giving the US Marines a base, and getting F35. All of which, whether we say it or not, is intended for China .

One really needs to follow their foreign policy pronouncements to understand the all-too-visible tilt the Aussies have, when it comes to PRC. Their heavy dependence on China for consumption of Aussie raw material emasculates them to the extent that they cannot be considered to be reliable partner in any multilateral agreement or military alliance against China.

We wont be a partner to Indian style "diplomacy". We are confident in our abilities and don't need to threaten and cajole. In particular as China isn't our enemy (at least not since Korea, Malaysia and Vietnam which were all a long time ago)

In fact, Aussies can be safely counted out from any such alliance, for their special attention not to offend any Chinese sensibilities. You wouldn't find such overt obsequiousness & vocal deference for the PRC even in Indonesia or Malaysia. Their past military exploits cannot cover for their sissiness against PRC they have been displaying since last few decades.

Indian diplomacy, and to an increasing extent your national character, increasingly reminds me of the Arab world. We don't need to beat our chests and roar in public.

Kangaroo's characteristic bravado & irreverent swagger notwithstanding, they are not the ones to be counted on, when it comes to taming/containing the dragon.

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[TrueSpirit]

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It's understandable that you feel offended but none was intended ever.

However, truth can be harsh. From an Indian perspective, Aussie foreign policy w.r.t PRC, is not conducive to India. However, it is of lesser direct significance for us.

By the way, what was that about "our national character" resembling Arab ? Come again, please.

 

[apple]

It's understandable that you feel offended but none was intended ever.

However, truth can be harsh. From an Indian perspective, Aussie foreign policy w.r.t PRC, is not conducive to India. However, it is of lesser direct significance for us.

I wasn't offended. This is the internet. Yes, the Indian and Australian government do follow different policies in regards to China.

So, for you, this justify calling Australians sissies?

The truth hurts, but you clearly have no understanding of Australia. Yet you post here lecturing others on what Australia is. Your post #44 bears no comparison to your earlier posts and, as you still don't seem to understand, your #40 post was completely incorrect and totally off topic.

 

[TrueSpirit]

I wasn't offended. This is the internet. Yes, the Indian and Australian government do follow different policies in regards to China.

So, for you, this justify calling Australians sissies?

The truth hurts, but you clearly have no understanding of Australia. Yet you post here lecturing others on what Australia is. Your post #44 bears no comparison to your earlier posts and, as you still don't seem to understand, your #40 post was completely incorrect and totally off topic.

Mate, you are offended. Second, it is correct that I have lesser understanding of Aussie that you. Third, I am not lecturing anyone, here; just airing my views.

I already said, my post might sound off-topic but is is not. Having said that, my post is not incorrect.

Please study Aussie foreign policy w.r.t PRC. It is sissy, indeed.

Ok, if sissy hurts, lets use the euphemism: unbecoming of a US-ally. But it won't change the facts & the popular perception about Aussie policies when it comes to PRC. I understand that, it might be difficult for you to accept it but it is happening & it is disappointing.

Then, there is "your" truth, & there is "my" truth but there's no "absolute" truth.

I would leave it at that.

 

[apple]

Mate, you are offended. Second, it is correct that I have lesser understanding of Aussie that you. Third, I am not lecturing anyone, here; just airing my views.

I already said, my post might sound off-topic but is is not. Having said that, my post is not incorrect.

Please study Aussie foreign policy w.r.t PRC. It is sissy, indeed.

Ok, if sissy hurts, lets use the euphemism: unbecoming of a US-ally. But it won't change the facts & the popular perception about Aussie policies when it comes to PRC. I understand that, it might be difficult for you to accept it but it is happening & it is disappointing.

Then, there is "your" truth, & there is "my" truth but there's no "absolute" truth.

I would leave it at that.

As I said I'm not offended. You'll know when I'm offended. You're as wrong about my feelings as you are about Australia.

An Indian calling Australians sissies due to our policy towards China doesn' t hurt. It's just faintly ridiculous.

No absolutes... sure Australia and India view China differently. We have violently, and successfully, opposed China, and her interests, repeatedly in the past. We deal with China with respect.

As to the popular perception you are talking about the perception from a Indian point of view. Which is fine, but I don't really care what you think nor am interested in how Indians imagine a "US-ally" sic. should behave.

 

[AAiox Xin]

it might be 1 year news....but do try to type "china ask australia to choose godfather between usa and china

 

[TrueSpirit]

As I said I'm not offended. You'll know when I'm offended. You're as wrong about my feelings as you are about Australia.

An Indian calling Australians sissies due to our policy towards China doesn' t hurt. It's just faintly ridiculous.

No absolutes... sure Australia and India view China differently. We have violently, and successfully, opposed China, and her interests, repeatedly in the past. We deal with China with respect.

As to the popular perception you are talking about the perception from a Indian point of view. Which is fine, but I don't really care what you think nor am interested in how Indians imagine a "US-ally" sic. should behave.

You know what, when one backs out from his word- his stated position, he looses respect. Especially in diplomatic circles, when the "word" happens to be between official & formal allies.

That is the reason of this popular perception.

Now, consider this your homework to find out how & when this happened. Being an Aussie, I would expect you to have some inkling of your nation's affairs.

Again, no offence intended. Just want you to be able to view "strategic developments" in this region, from a broader perspective.

Chinese official: it's us or America

 

[apple]

You know what, when one backs out from his word- his stated position, he looses respect. Especially in diplomatic circles, when the "word" happens to be between official & formal allies.

So, your stopping with incorrect intrepretations and have taken up actively lying now. You trying to infer that Australia broke s defence treaty agreement with the USA?

Seriously?

I can't be bothered, at all, with you anymore. Have fun in your word of make believe.

 

[TrueSpirit]

So, your stopping with incorrect intrepretations and have taken up actively lying now. You trying to infer that Australia broke s defence treaty agreement with the USA?

Seriously?

I can't be bothered, at all, with you anymore. Have fun in your word of make believe.

You just failed in your homework. Your conclusion in incorrect.

Ok, attempt it again.

Try to find out: When has Aus. in recent years backed-off from its "word", only to develop such a reputation.

 

[apple]

You're so clever True Spirit, please tell me

 

[apple]

Keeping schtum about when the Australian government hasn't kept its word, True Spirit?

Mods, can you shut this thread? It was based on a non story and it's moved well away from even that now.

 

[p2prada]

Australian's thank the Indian Artillery for the fine work they performed in Gallipoli in WW1.

http://www.hcindia-au.org/pdf/The Indian Army at Gallipoli 1915.pdf

 

[Yusuf]

Apologies about the thread necromancy. But, just noticed this thread.

Basically, all your conjecture is wrong. Surprisingly enough, none of you seem familiar with Australian domestic politics ;-)

The newspaper that ran this story supports Australia acquiring nuclear power. About a year ago, when this story came out, the nuclear lobby was very active. There's a 0% chance of RAN getting anything nuclear. For a start, Sydney Harbour is Fleet Base East. If anything nuclear was permenantly stationed there the political party that allowed its existance would, at least, lose 1% (the real number would be much higher) of the vote in the Sydney i.e. ~50, 000 votes








Seriously? Read a book. You're a moderator... Australian's made up 18% of the Commonwealth forces in Malaya 1941. We made up 80% of the battle casualties. Guess who made up the majority of the army, which was too cowardly to fight, in Malaya?

Australian's thank the Indian Artillery for the fine work they performed in Gallipoli in WW1.



They would, the Australian electorate would, but I wouldn't say that's the reason we're not going nuclear.

Don't go too far back to the world wars. Look at your domestic policy of today under Rudd massive sucking up to the Chinese. Gillard was better but now Rudd is back. Recently a public poll in Aus wanted nothing to do with any war in Asia.

 

[TrueSpirit]

You're so clever True Spirit, please tell me

Clue for you: the answer lies in this very thread. That is where the discussing was heading, when you chipped in..

 

[SPIEZ]

Anything irresponsible and illegal to give a nuke sub?

Russia has given one to India.

Irresponsible and illegal, is it?

Err! There's nothing illegal about it.

But please let me know is there anything legal in selling Ballistic missiles to other countries especially when both of these countries framed Missile Control treaties????

 

[TrueSpirit]

Don't go too far back to the world wars. Look at your domestic policy of today under Rudd massive sucking up to the Chinese. Gillard was better but now Rudd is back. Recently a public poll in Aus wanted nothing to do with any war in Asia.

Not only the Aussie government. Even their businessmen try to do outdo each other in sucking up to the PRC. Have a look.

Businessman Kerry Stokes has slammed Australia's policy towards China, saying Australian politicians have shown disrespect towards the country.

Speaking at a conference in Sydney, Mr Stokes also criticised the stationing of US troops in Australia, saying this had aggravated the relationship with China.

Mr Stokes' is the chairman of the Seven Network and has business interests in China.

Today he lambasted Australian politicians - such as the Nationals Senate Leader Barnaby Joyce - for recently opposing the sale of Cubbie Station to Chinese interests.

He argued politicians on both sides of parliament had been disrespectful.

''Maybe they're wrong, maybe they have the wrong attitude, maybe they have the wrong facts,'' he said.

''I don't share their concerns or negative stance.

''For my company doing business in China is not a hardship. Tough market, oh yes. But we are successful and we respectfully do business in China.''

Mr Stokes' comments come amid reports that his company WesTrac is a potential buyer in a mooted Fortescue asset sale.

The media mogul also attacked the decision last year to station US troops in Darwin.
''We give the impression that we're joining sides. We never had to join sides. China always accepted our relationship with America,'' he said.
''Allowing the troops in Australia has just aggravated something that was accepted before and made it more dominant.''

Mr Stokes' comments also come as Treasurer Wayne Swan addressed the conference, calling for ''new ways'' to connect with Asian markets.

Outlining the government's upcoming Asian Century White Paper, Mr Swan said: ''It will require Australians to forge deeper and broader relationships with our neighbours at all levels - not only through economic and political links, but through social and cultural links as well.''

Stokes slams Australia's China policy

 

[apple]

Don't go too far back to the world wars. Look at your domestic policy of today under Rudd massive sucking up to the Chinese. Gillard was better but now Rudd is back. Recently a public poll in Aus wanted nothing to do with any war in Asia.

Are you trying to denigrate Australia's World War 2 heroes by equating them with modern politicans? That's as uncalled for as describing another country, who are your allies and are far more militant than you've ever been, as "sissies".

Only good thing about Rudd is his skills with the Chinese. For the sake of the world I hope the posters on this forum aren't representative of India as a whole. To spell it out for you, what Rudd does with the Chinese is a thing called d-i-p-l-o-m-a-c-y. We enjoy good relations with China and with that follows a thing called t-r-a-d-e which is good for our e-c-o-n-o-m-y.

Australia's relations with China is like how we sell you uranium. It's quite problematic, but the problems can be dealt with and both sides profit in the end.

Have no idea which poll you're talking about. But, polls can be misleading. If this one is accurate, good. Unlike India, Australia has fought proper wars against serious opponents. Once again, I hope for the sake of humanity the users of this forum aren't typical Indians.

And seriously, you're quoting (without providing a link) a "poll" on the internet...

Clue for you: the answer lies in this very thread. That is where the discussing was heading, when you chipped in..

I have no desire to try and think like you and work out what you mean.

Not only the Aussie government. Even their businessmen try to do outdo each other in sucking up to the PRC. Have a look.



Stokes slams Australia's China policy

So, now we don't just have politicans, we a single businessman. That definitely makes your point for you (in case you're one of those Indians with no sense of irony, I was being sarcastic there). Kerry Stokes can say what he wants. Why should I care, what does that prove?

And Kerry Stokes is kind of C grade. A tip for you, True Spirit, Murdoch called the Dalai Lama a "vain monk" and public endorsed China's occupation of Tibet. Murdoch would've been a much better example than Stokes and you might want to use him instead next time.

 

[TrueSpirit]

Murdoch called the Dalai Lama a "vain monk" and public endorsed China's occupation of Tibet. Murdoch would've been a much better example than Stokes and you might want to use him instead next time.

Appreciate your forthrightness & thanks for bringing the point to our notice. So you can see now that there is no dearth of China-lickers in Australia right ?