Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[Kshithij]

As similar to all conspiracy theory, always "suspect", "thought to", "could have" but there isn't any evidence whatsoever. Funny how they think Israel used the bird collision incident as a cover story, Yet in reality, if an F-35 was indeed hit and Israel wanted to keep it a secret, they wouldn't even release any information at all whatsoever. Nevermind that a F-35 hit by S-200 won't return to base, it will disintegrate, period
And honestly, it wouldn't be such a big surprise that Syrian minister jump at the opportunities to spread the propaganda.



Except for southfront.org where the hoax originated from , all others source point out how out of touch this rumor is
https://www.timesofisrael.com/storks-hit-f-35-sending-stealth-jet-to-garage/amp/ report a bird collision


https://theaviationist.com/2017/10/...lved-in-a-bird-strike-incident-gets-grounded/ literally said this


http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/did-russian-missile-really-hit-israeli-f-35-22926v said



No there isn't. It is laughable, almost a child dream but far from reality. Like I said, this is nothing more than a hoax, basically, the same sh..t when they said S-300 battery was destroyed by F-35
http://www.businessinsider.com/f-35-combat-mission-syria-2017-4
Hell, if someone is deluded enough to believe this kind of hoax then they may as well believe Qaher-313 is a world beater.

Stork can be anywhere within 0-16000 ft, it is entirely possible for an aircraft to hit them. There isn't any indication about the altitude when the collision happened either, heck you don't even know what altitude or what sort of training mission they were flying, if they were flying BFM or deep penetration then a collision with some bird is nothing out of ordinary.

The S200 may have exploded at some distance due to combination of maneuvering from F35 and proximity fuse detonating "at proximity" rather than at a kinetic hit. So, F35 may have survived with damage instead of being disintegrated.

It may be a hoax or maynot be a hoax. Also, I am not sure if it was Syrian minister that claimed the hit first or if it was Israel that declared the accident first. If it was Syrian minister, then it is more likely than not that it is indeed a S200 hit. If it was Israel that declared first, then it may have been more likely an accident

 

[Immanuel]

The S200 may have exploded at some distance due to combination of maneuvering from F35 and proximity fuse detonating "at proximity" rather than at a kinetic hit. So, F35 may have survived with damage instead of being disintegrated.

It may be a hoax or maynot be a hoax. Also, I am not sure if it was Syrian minister that claimed the hit first or if it was Israel that declared the accident first. If it was Syrian minister, then it is more likely than not that it is indeed a S200 hit. If it was Israel that declared first, then it may have been more likely an accident

If a Rafale can successfully penetrate S-200 defenses as demonstrated, the F-35 can do so even better.

 

[Sancho]

However, what you suggest is a tactical solution

No it's not tactical at all, but about which sensors, with what performance will be able to detect a stealth fighter!
Radar in fact is the least useful sensor in that regard, especially the one of a fighter, since it's small size, power and FoR, limits the detection capability to very low ranges, in head on engagements only! That's why an AWACS radar is the better counter to stealth, since it's more powerful, with a wider FoR.
The even better sensors are IRST (and you can only reduce the IR signature to a limited extend), or RWR/ESM sensors, to pic up EM signals of the fighter. Here as well, larger AWACS or Sigint aircrafts are more capable than smaller fighters (at least for EW sensors), simply because they can carry larger and more powerful sensors, than basic fighters.

 

[mahesh]

Well, in normal weather condition, you can see a plane as far as 8km with your own eyes. Within that range, any existing radar can detect any existing stealth jet.

Ok........ That makes human eyes as powerful as Radars and a pair of binocular to those human eyes becomes more powerful than the Radar itself. So much for the technology added comes with them, and in disguise you also proposing lowest RCS for J20


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[mahesh]

Well, in normal weather condition, you can see a plane as far as 8km with your own eyes. Within that range, any existing radar can detect any existing stealth jet.

Ok........ That makes human eyes as powerful as Radars and a pair of binocular to those human eyes becomes more powerful than the Radar itself. So much for the technology added comes with them, and in disguise you also proposing lowest RCS for J20


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[StealthFlanker]

The S200 may have exploded at some distance due to combination of maneuvering from F35 and proximity fuse detonating "at proximity" rather than at a kinetic hit. So, F35 may have survived with damage instead of being disintegrated.

Unfortunately, Syrian minister claimed that they score a direct hit on Israel aircraft. Which just make their propaganda story that much more laughable

 

[scatterStorm]

It is a polite way of saying USA that India is not in a mood to oblige the sanctions. It is not exactly a request.



What repercussions? Do you understand that USA is not the allfather? Why should India bother about USA's unilateral sanctions? Is India a USA stooge?

If dollar can't be used with Russia, sonethsomelse will be used.

You sure know how to jump the guns. By repercussions I mean they will stop selling drones and other stuff to us. Remember, we still have a whole Apache gun ship shit storm waiting for us. If you ever saw Nicky Haley mood swings in UN you would know what I meant.

Whom we are kidding, this is a republic mad ass party, the leader is dude who likes to say "you are fired" whenever his mood get's in wrong.

 

[scatterStorm]

Unfortunately, Syrian minister claimed that they score a direct hit on Israel aircraft. Which just make their propaganda story that much more laughable

Come to think of it, if the bird hit an F35, it isn't something for a few hundred million dollar plane to be repaired. Actually it's pretty bad "PR" for a plane that got hit by a bird and cannot fly ever as Israel defence ministry quoted ... "we aren't sure if the jet would fly again".

Two things can happen for such condition:

1. An air collision
2. Impact by a kinetic weapon (guided or unguided)

I am assuming the latter one, because birds don't make a plane go obsolete ... only missiles do!

 

[Kshithij]

You sure know how to jump the guns. By repercussions I mean they will stop selling drones and other stuff to us. Remember, we still have a whole Apache gun ship shit storm waiting for us. If you ever saw Nicky Haley mood swings in UN you would know what I meant.

Whom we are kidding, this is a republic mad ass party, the leader is dude who likes to say "you are fired" whenever his mood get's in wrong.

USA is not expecred to supply any high end technology to India in the near future. USA has refused sales of several high end technology to India in the past out of fear of reverse engineering. Arrow SAM, Greenpine radar, P8I Hydrocarbon detector, ISRO clocks for IRNSS etc were denied to India.

ISRO made its own clocks for IRNSS and as and when India was in final stage of making the clock, USA agreed to sell it. Similarly, India made its own SAM, Radar etc.

India is not dependent upon USA technology in any manner and USA has shown its reluctance to supplying technology to India continuously.

In case of drones, this drone deal has been going on for 2 years and USA is insisting on CISMOA agreement to sell the drones. Apache helicopter is not something of very high technology but just a higher armoured LCH. The application and utilities of these are limited. India has bought these as measures to reduce trade deficit with USA as per USA request rather than as high end technology sale. Cancelling drone supply is irrelevant to India as USA hasn't shown any inclination in selling it unconditionally while cancelling Apache is harmful for USA while allowing India to get an excuse to save foreign exchange and let the trade gap be unbridged

 

[no smoking]

No it's not tactical at all, but about which sensors, with what performance will be able to detect a stealth fighter!

Radar in fact is the least useful sensor in that regard, especially the one of a fighter, since it's small size, power and FoR, limits the detection capability to very low ranges, in head on engagements only! That's why an AWACS radar is the better counter to stealth, since it's more powerful, with a wider FoR.

The even better sensors are IRST (and you can only reduce the IR signature to a limited extend), or RWR/ESM sensors, to pic up EM signals of the fighter. Here as well, larger AWACS or Sigint aircrafts are more capable than smaller fighters (at least for EW sensors), simply because they can carry larger and more powerful sensors, than basic fighters.

Well, that was exactly what PLAAF thought before, they train the pilots with this kind of tactics this and even built the AWACS specifically against stealth fighter. After several drills with J-20, however, they found out that J-20 can shoot down AWACS before J-10s getting close enough.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Come to think of it, if the bird hit an F35, it isn't something for a few hundred million dollar plane to be repaired. Actually it's pretty bad "PR" for a plane that got hit by a bird and cannot fly ever as Israel defence ministry quoted ... "we aren't sure if the jet would fly again".
Two things can happen for such condition:
1. An air collision
2. Impact by a kinetic weapon (guided or unguided)
I am assuming the latter one, because birds don't make a plane go obsolete ... only missiles do!

Then you greatly underestimate what a bird can do to a plane.

One example of it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549

Anyway regarding the F-35

The birds hit the F-35, called the “Adir” in Hebrew, just before it was due to return to the Nevatim air base in the central Negev desert.
The army said the plane landed normally and that it did not sustain damage.
However, it was sent “for maintenance work as is common after impacts like this,” the IDF said in an email.
The army said the F-35 fighter jet, one of the seven currently in Israel’s possession, is expected to return to service in the next few days.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/storks-hit-f-35-sending-stealth-jet-to-garage/

The IDF confirmed those details to Israeli media outlets: “During a training sortie two hits were found on the plane, following to a collision with a bird. After an evaluation and assessment of the damage conducted together with the manufacturer – Lockheed Martin, the plane was sent to a normal maintenance and repair. It will return to full service in the next few days.

https://theaviationist.com/2017/10/...lved-in-a-bird-strike-incident-gets-grounded/

 

[Sancho]

Well, that was exactly what PLAAF thought before, they train the pilots with this kind of tactics this and even built the AWACS specifically against stealth fighter. After several drills with J-20, however, they found out that J-20 can shoot down AWACS before J-10s getting close enough.

And that's why the counter to a stealth fighter is, getting powerful sensors and not a stealth fighter like you said earlier. Stealth can't counter stealth, only sensors that can detect stealth aircrafts can counter it and the more advanced the sensors, the longer the detection range.

 

[Manish Khan]

Why don't we setup more facilities to manufacture Su-30 MKI in a faster manner to gain advantage?

Maybe this is a comprehensive process,not just the matter of the quantity of facilities and the speed of manufacturing ,there are a lot of things to think over,for example,the fund , source- sharing problem ,independent production ability promotion ,etc.of course,you are welcomed to correct me if i am wrong.

 

[no smoking]

And that's why the counter to a stealth fighter is, getting powerful sensors and not a stealth fighter like you said earlier. Stealth can't counter stealth, only sensors that can detect stealth aircrafts can counter it and the more advanced the sensors, the longer the detection range.

The problem is not the sensor, AWACS can always get a bigger and better sensor to detect the stealth plane. The problem is those non-stealth fighter that carries hunting-killing missions. Their sensors are not better than those on the stealth plane. Before they are getting close enough to lock the stealth target with their own radar/sensors, the stealth plane generally already shoot out the AA missile and fly away.

 

[Samsung J7]

Su30 crashed in Nashik

 

[Steven Rogers]

Under production Su30 crashed
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/ia...-maharashtras-nashik/articleshow/64759663.cms

 

[WolfPack86]

BREAKING: Brand new HAL-built Su-30 MKI crashes at Nasik during pre-delivery test flight. Both pilots ejected safely.
https://twitter.com/livefist?lang=en

 

[WolfPack86]

What remains of the Su-30 MKI’s AL-31FP turbofans after today’s crash. HAL statement on crash expected shortly.

 

[cyclops]

Video of Pilots landing.

 

[Armand2REP]

Video of Pilots landing.

Nice to see the ejection seats working at least.