Project-75I class SSK Submarines

[Indx TechStyle]

1. In 2019 they are thinking to launch just prototype but when it will come to commission that bird it will be in 2025 if all will be on plan then only.

So, you get induction of next gen aircraft immediate? Usually takes 7-8 years.

2. Yes my friend you are right IN backing AMCA but for which AC?

IAC-2.

For INS Vishal they are already finding foreign aircraft.

IAC-1

So when N-AMCA will be ready to commission at that time Mig 29 will be ready for decommission.

Come on, Navy has asked for details, not dismissed it.

3. Bro. Still Concept Design is finalised now they are working on Detailed Design and there is major gap between these two terminology.

Details design includes finalization of avionics & engines. Doesn't mean you can't get full scale prototype (without main weapons & censors) in 2 years.

And another thing is from PMO HAL or ADA didn't get clearance to start the development so how they can start they develop the machine.

At least be convenient about that.

Read This. :-
http://idrw.org/aero-india-2017-amc...tage-first-flight-likely-by-2025/#more-126364

You are surely new on defence forums, otherwise you must be knowing the reason why people don't follow IDRW, be it good or bad news, IDRW is famous for inaccurate reporting.

 

[HailIndia]

So, you get induction of next gen aircraft immediate? Usually takes 7-8 years.

IAC-2.

IAC-1

Come on, Navy has asked for details, not dismissed it.

Details design includes finalisation of avionics & engines. Doesn't mean you can't get full scale prototype (without main weapons & censors) in 2 years.

At least be convenient about that.

You are surely new on defence forums, otherwise you must be knowing the reason why people don't follow IDRW, be it good or bad news, IDRW is famous for inaccurate reporting.

Here I am not telling that I want aircraft right now. Please read first and try to understand that sentence after that you react. I am telling about the HAL's plan about AMCA that in 2019 they are planning to launch prototype and on or up to 2025 it will be ready for commission. And I also understand that every aircraft should take 7-8 years time for development.

I am damn sure that for INS Vikrant/IAC-1 Navy had already purchase Mig 29K. Just clear your knowledge or just visit the Wikipedia page or any other site. And for INS Vishal/IAC-2 Navy wants total 57 aircraft because that aircraft have capacity of 50-55 aircraft. Earlier IN wants Carrier based AMCA for INS Vishal but reality now they are finding foreign aircraft right now.

Whatever it is but the reality is HAL didn't started the development of AMCA right now. And maybe before mid of 2017 or the end of 2017 it won't start.

I am agree with you that design is frozen but still they are working on design only. Because if they are planning about engines and low RCS Skin etc. which means they are now are in development stage. And before 10-15 days the Director of New Delhi's ADA C. D. Balaji has told that the great majority work for the shape of the AMCA has been completed. This is the proof that not 100% design work is completed but they are ready to start the prototype development.

And main thing is that it is not matter that I am new on this site or not, but the main thing is whatever information we have should be correct. It's make difference between you an me. And you are not any individual institute which can give a certificate that which site is doing good or bad. I am visiting 4-5 different sites after that I am confirming that information is perfect and genuine.

 

[tharun]

Is this thread is for submarines or AMCA?

 

[indiandefencefan]

So, you get induction of next gen aircraft immediate? Usually takes 7-8 years.

IAC-2.

IAC-1

Come on, Navy has asked for details, not dismissed it.

Details design includes finalization of avionics & engines. Doesn't mean you can't get full scale prototype (without main weapons & censors) in 2 years.

At least be convenient about that.

You are surely new on defence forums, otherwise you must be knowing the reason why people don't follow IDRW, be it good or bad news, IDRW is famous for inaccurate reporting.

Here I am not telling that I want aircraft right now. Please read first and try to understand that sentence after that you react. I am telling about the HAL's plan about AMCA that in 2019 they are planning to launch prototype and on or up to 2025 it will be ready for commission. And I also understand that every aircraft should take 7-8 years time for development.

I am damn sure that for INS Vikrant/IAC-1 Navy had already purchase Mig 29K. Just clear your knowledge or just visit the Wikipedia page or any other site. And for INS Vishal/IAC-2 Navy wants total 57 aircraft because that aircraft have capacity of 50-55 aircraft. Earlier IN wants Carrier based AMCA for INS Vishal but reality now they are finding foreign aircraft right now.

Whatever it is but the reality is HAL didn't started the development of AMCA right now. And maybe before mid of 2017 or the end of 2017 it won't start.

I am agree with you that design is frozen but still they are working on design only. Because if they are planning about engines and low RCS Skin etc. which means they are now are in development stage. And before 10-15 days the Director of New Delhi's ADA C. D. Balaji has told that the great majority work for the shape of the AMCA has been completed. This is the proof that not 100% design work is completed but they are ready to start the prototype development.

And main thing is that it is not matter that I am new on this site or not, but the main thing is whatever information we have should be correct. It's make difference between you an me. And you are not any individual institute which can give a certificate that which site is doing good or bad. I am visiting 4-5 different sites after that I am confirming that information is perfect and genuine.

Hey guys would be nice if you could take this debate to the AMCA thread rather than here.
This thread is getting so derailed somebody might claim ISI is behind it.

Thanks.

 

[BON PLAN]

What about French Barracuda-class submarine conventional one which is purchased by Australian Navy
It is quietest submarine in the world because of its pump jet propulsion.

I don't know if it is the quietest of the world ! but at least one the the quietest...

Pump jet is one element, but also elastic support of all the moving machine (pumps, motors...), absorbing materials, anechoic tiles, hull design...

It's a whole that make a sub quieter. And french last gen SLBM experience help a lot, versus Japanese or German products.

 

[HailIndia]

I don't know if it is the quietest of the world ! but at least one the the quietest...

Pump jet is one element, but also elastic support of all the moving machine (pumps, motors...), absorbing materials, anechoic tiles, hull design...

It's a whole that make a sub quieter. And french last gen SLBM experience help a lot, versus Japanese or German products.

Ok then according to you which sub. Is quieter in the world?
And which one is good and quieter in all project 75i participants?

 

[SilentKiller]

Ok then according to you which sub. Is quieter in the world?
And which one is good and quieter in all project 75i participants?

No country will supply to u best sub. they keep best sub for themself.
take example of Type 214
"The Type 214 submarine is derived from the Type 212 but as an export variant it lacks some of the classified technologies of its smaller predecessor, the most important of which is probably the non-magnetic steel hull, which makes the Type 212 submarine difficult to detect using a magnetic anomaly detector."

So neither french nor genrmans will supply best of best to us.

 

[BON PLAN]

Ok then according to you which sub. Is quieter in the world?
And which one is good and quieter in all project 75i participants?

The only thing known is that Barracuda was choosen by Australia on Japanese and German subs because it's an evolution of Scorpene, which is the quietest.

 

[BON PLAN]

Ok then according to you which sub. Is quieter in the world?
And which one is good and quieter in all project 75i participants?

The only thing known is that Barracuda was choosen by Australia on Japanese and German subs because it's an evolution of Scorpene, which is the quietest.

 

[BON PLAN]

Ok then according to you which sub. Is quieter in the world?
And which one is good and quieter in all project 75i participants?

The only thing known is that Barracuda was choosen by Australia on Japanese and German subs because it's an evolution of Scorpene, which is the quietest.

 

[BON PLAN]

Ok then according to you which sub. Is quieter in the world?
And which one is good and quieter in all project 75i participants?

The only thing known is that Barracuda was choosen by Australia on Japanese and German subs because it's an evolution of Scorpene, which is the quietest.

 

[lcafanboy]

Indian Navy Likely To Go For Bigger Submarines?

Soryu, Kalina or Barracudda?

http://idrw.org/project-75i-indian-navy-likely-to-go-for-bigger-submarines/#more-128865

 

[uoftotaku]

P-75i is a waste of time. We don't need so many SSK's anymore. Only Arabian Sea ops are suitable for SSK's due to shallow water. 9 SSK's based out of Mumbai + Karwar are more than sufficient to keep Porki "Navy" in check.

Emerging challenge is deep-water operation in Bay of Bengal and beyond in Southern Indian Ocean to keep Red Navy patrols in check. No SSK has the range or speed to operate in such an environment effectively. SSN's are the way to go. The indigenous SSN project with 6 boats is a great start, add another batch of 3 at least (6 more ideally) to that and you have a good patrol force on both sides of maritime border.

We are building a multi-carrier fleet (both CV and LHD) + an SSBN fleet. These assets cannot operate safely without submarine escort and SSKs lack the speed and endurance to keep up on long patrols.

And before anyone argues about the New-Gen "Big" SSKs like Shortfin Barracuda etc, look at the price of those boats. They are comparable, if not more expensive, to any modern SSN being built. We have painstakingly developed the tech, know-how and now building experience for Nuke boats through ATV project...lets put it to good use and support the SSN project instead of more imports

 

[Bahamut]

P-75i is a waste of time. We don't need so many SSK's anymore. Only Arabian Sea ops are suitable for SSK's due to shallow water. 9 SSK's based out of Mumbai + Karwar are more than sufficient to keep Porki "Navy" in check.

Emerging challenge is deep-water operation in Bay of Bengal and beyond in Southern Indian Ocean to keep Red Navy patrols in check. No SSK has the range or speed to operate in such an environment effectively. SSN's are the way to go. The indigenous SSN project with 6 boats is a great start, add another batch of 3 at least (6 more ideally) to that and you have a good patrol force on both sides of maritime border.

We are building a multi-carrier fleet (both CV and LHD) + an SSBN fleet. These assets cannot operate safely without submarine escort and SSKs lack the speed and endurance to keep up on long patrols.

And before anyone argues about the New-Gen "Big" SSKs like Shortfin Barracuda etc, look at the price of those boats. They are comparable, if not more expensive, to any modern SSN being built. We have painstakingly developed the tech, know-how and now building experience for Nuke boats through ATV project...lets put it to good use and support the SSN project instead of more imports

SSK are quieter and are easy to build and operate .They are perfect for defensive warfare. Our Kilo were able to take out US SSN with ease.Now think About the Lada class which is at least 10 times quieter will do .Also with AIP the range of SSK have improved .

 

[Adnan Jumean]

good india is getting more subs here is iranian made submarines

 

[salute]

good india is getting more subs here is iranian made submarines
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is that foreign sub or just a fake model like iranian stealth jet .

 

[Indx TechStyle]

good india is getting more subs here is iranian made submarines
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There is a huge gap between quality, offensive capabilities and displacement of Indian and Iranian submarines.

Even India's smallest operational submarine is bigger than largest Iranian submarine. So, let's not compare.
Second, India isn't trying to compete with Iran in number of strength but somewhat a reasonable fraction or equilibrium of US, Russia and PRF so that it can dominate Indian Ocean.

 

[sthf]

good india is getting more subs here is iranian made submarines
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For crying out loud man. Open some bloody new threads for Iranian stuff. Nobody here has a problem with that, infact we welcome it.

Just stop shitting all over the established threads.

 

[uoftotaku]

SSK are quieter and are easy to build and operate .They are perfect for defensive warfare. Our Kilo were able to take out US SSN with ease.Now think About the Lada class which is at least 10 times quieter will do .Also with AIP the range of SSK have improved .

True that AIP equipped SSK's are quiet and have greater range than older battery equipped ones. However the point remains that price paid of AIP equipped subs is comparable to an SSN. And a modern SSK is not easy to build. Look at MDL's troubles with even a "simple" non-AIP Scorpene...a submarine is a complex piece of equipment..nothing easy about it at all. Even experienced sub builders like HDW and GD Electric Boat have frequent screw-ups. Look at Navantia...their S-80 Scorpene has a fundamental design flaw. Such a distinguished and experienced company also screwed up in a "simple" SSK design.

Furthermore, while AIP does improve the underwater range, speed is an Achilles heel. Most subs on AIP will potter around at only 5-6 knots. They can sustain higher speeds in short bursts but then the range advantage goes out the window. Shortfin Barracuda (as per the marketing brochure) is being designed to go around this particular problem by being equipped for long cruise transits but it remains to be seen how well this translates into practical use. And again, the price of this model is comparable to a Virginia-class SSN!

SSK's have advantages in stealth for sure, but ONLY in very specific circumstances can this be translated into combat effectiveness. Hence why I am not saying that IN should do away with SSK's...they have their use..but to have a balance of SSK's and SSN's. The IN will be facing a broader and more diverse operational environment in the future than it has ever faced before. Some long term strategic thinking (which is unfortunately lacking throughout our country) is required to foresee and plan for emerging threats.

 

[BON PLAN]

project 75i : Is indian navy likely to go for bigger submarines ?

http://idrw.org/project-75i-indian-navy-likely-to-go-for-bigger-submarines/#more-128865