New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[devhensh]

Without taking sides, or pointing out which rifle will be the best, i would like to share this very recent review of Galil Ace .308....A rifle which may win this IA contract..Few points :

1. The person posting this review is an very respected Firearms Expert(Ex colt Employee), and an author of a popular book called "Black Rifle". He is one of the best Technical Reviewers of Firearms in You Tube.

2. He praises this rifle very highly and that is surprising to me as he is a AR15 guy, and when an AR15 expert praises an AK based design.....That design has to be good.

3. Personally i think, small arms design is an Evolution and not Revolution. Which Galil ace does by adapting a proven design to 21 century standards (AK 12 series is same ). So while,there are many, much more modern Battle rifles than Galil Ace, i believe that the Galil Ace will beat them all in two areas of Reliability and Ruggedness (-40 of Siachen, Deserts, Marsh/Mud/ Jungles of NE)..........

I would like to leave it to the EXPERTS (Army), to decide, which selection criterions are more important..

 

[Vinod DX9]

A new RFI...Now 7.62*39 mm platform ..

 

[ezsasa]

A new RFI...Now 7.62*39 mm platform ..

So it is clear now that INSAS is definitely on the way out.

 

[Prashant12]

Army starts process to acquire 6.5L assault rifles under 'Make in India'


NEW DELHI: The Army has set the ball rolling for the acquisition of 6.5 lakh new assault rifles, with “reduced technical specifications”, under what will eventually be an over Rs 12,000 crore “Make in India” project in the years ahead.

The Army on Friday floated a RFI (request for information) for 7.62x39 square mm caliber assault rifles, with an effective kill range of 300 metres to be produced by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) as well as private sector companies, for which responses must be submitted by September 24.

This comes after the defence ministry earlier this year approved the Rs 1,798 crore procurement of 72,400 advanced assault rifles from abroad under the fast-track procedure (FTP) for frontline troops. So, in effect, soldiers deployed on the borders with China and Pakistan will get 7.62x51mm caliber assault rifles with a longer kill range, while other troops will get guns with lower GSQRs (general staff qualitative requirements).

Though eyebrows have been raised at this, Army chief General Bipin Rawat had earlier publicly declared that his entire 12-lakh strong force could not be equipped with top-notch rifles and other weapons due to budgetary constraints.
The hi-tech 7.62x51mm caliber rifles will be only for infantry battalions deployed on the front, while the bulk of the weapons for the force would come through the indigenous route. The Army will initially accept weapon systems with “lower GSQRs” to give a boost to the local industry, but hi-tech weapons must be delivered in the long run, Gen Rawat had said.

The overall requirement in the Army, Navy and IAF is for 8.16 lakh new 7.62mm caliber assault rifles to replace the existing glitch-prone 5.56mm INSAS (Indian small arms system) rifles. The Army had first asked for new assault rifles and close-quarter battle carbines for its 382 infantry battalions (each with 850 soldiers each) way back in 2005, while the case for the light machine guns was initiated in 2009.
But soldiers are yet to get new infantry weapons because the long-drawn procurement projects were repeatedly scrapped due to graft allegations or unrealistic technical parameters as well as the lack of indigenous options for well over a decade.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-under-make-in-india/articleshow/65627369.cms

 

[Flame Thrower]

I don't understand what the fuck is actually wrong with the guys who create these new requests!?

Will they change the requirements to 5.56*45 after couple of years!? Then what a new 6.8*43 round!!??

Why can't they just think properly!?

We're talking about something that'' gonna stay for 20 or so years.... God, Brens are still being used.

Does anyone have the idea about who is the procurement head for our assault rifles!!and how many of them changed in the past decade!!??

Sorry guys, just now I watched about how many decades it took britsh to make few changes on their SMLEs to bring them to mark 4 standard. By the way, issuing Mark 4 started in 1943 and proposed design changes in 1926.

I really wanna punch Brit army folks(on gun selecting & testing) when I heard about the story of Brens after Dunkirk. It was 1940, Germany was invincible....heck Brits almost lost 330k soldiers, if not for dumb luck, yes Dunkirk was spared for some stupid reason(advancing german army was asked to hault mere days before they reached it), rest of the ports we're destroyed. Yet, it took them 2 yrs to convert milled Bren gun into stamped version with almost little to no improvement compared to old one. Oh and by the way, stamped was never produced in decent numbers, too many milling factories were setup to take care of the shortage.

It's still a mystery for me on how they designed and get accepted Sten into service in matter of 8 weeks....!!??

I wish disease of selecting small arms wasn't hereditary.

 

[Mangal]

A new RFI...Now 7.62*39 mm platform ..

This may bring MCIWS or whatever now it is called back into picture as it also fires 7.62*39 rounds. This may end well.

 

[ezsasa]

This may bring MCIWS or whatever now it is called back into picture as it also fires 7.62*39 rounds. This may end well.

nope, MCIWS/AAR project is closed. i think it is ghatak. since it is being used by CAPF, it will be easier for induction.

 

[Vinod DX9]

What I do understand is
7.62*51 mm is for Infantry, a costlier gun, deadly
whereas non infantry to get7.62*39 mm, cheaper, good fire power and being lighter magazine will allow to carry more ammo

 

[Jackd]

As far as I know, someone in this forum quoted a paragraph from DRDO's annual report and it stated that MCIWS will continue to be developed upon.

Also, I am not so sure about Ak103 being selected as Kalashnikov is placed in the list of entities with whom if you do business, you will be sanctioned as per CAATSA.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

The procurement system does not work for the benefit of Army, it works for the benefit of Dalals

the focus is to create demand for a product which is ostensibly not made in India

The procurement of 9 mm submachine guns worth rupees 2000 crore for army and Paramilitary is a prime example of wastage

Of course we have larger gold plated projects like k9 and Apache helicopters

Ace is a very poor design because the sights are placed over dustcover. This layout has been discarded all over the world except in Russia

Bullpup Tavor has all the limitations of bullpup rifle along with the fact that composite receivers have not been successful in any rifle in the world because of their Limited sustained firing capacity

but the great thing about this import is that the proposed Rifles import cost 10 times the manufacturing cost of each INSAS so GREAT!

 

[ezsasa]

Can someone make list of all RFI's for assault rifles + carbines + sniper rifles along with their quantity what were issued after 2016.

 

[Jackd]

Can someone make list of all RFI's for assault rifles + carbines + sniper rifles along with their quantity what were issued after 2016.

You can visit indianarmy.nic.in to get details of RFIs.

 

[ezsasa]

Can someone make list of all RFI's for assault rifles + carbines + sniper rifles along with their quantity what were issued after 2016.

Here is the list....


Assault Rifle (7.62 x 39 mm) 6,50,000

Assault Rifle(7.62 x 51mm) 5,50,000

CQB Carbine(5.56 x 45 mm) 3,50,000

Light machine Gun(7.62 x 51mm) 45,000

Sniper Rifle((8.6 mm) 6000

Light Weight Anti Material Rifle (LT WT AMR) 15,000



Telescopic Sight For Assault Rifle(7.62 x 51mm) 16,000

Telescopic Sight for 7.62x51MM Light Machine Gun (LMG) 16,000


Night Sight for Sniper Rifle (TI) 5,500

Night Sight Image Intensifier for Rifle AK-47 14,000

Night Sight Thermal Imaging for Rifle AK-47 13,000

Night Sight for 7.62MM MAG 58 2A1 Medium Machine Gun (TI) 5200

Night Sight for 84MM Rocket Launcher (TI) 15,000

Night Sight for 7.62mm Light Machine Gun (II) 10,600

Night Sight for 7.62mm Light Machine Gun (TI) 26,000

 

[rishivashista13]

And what's current status...

Here is the list....


Assault Rifle (7.62 x 39 mm) 6,50,000

Assault Rifle(7.62 x 51mm) 5,50,000

CQB Carbine(5.56 x 45 mm) 3,50,000

Light machine Gun(7.62 x 51mm) 45,000

Sniper Rifle((8.6 mm) 6000

Light Weight Anti Material Rifle (LT WT AMR) 15,000



Telescopic Sight For Assault Rifle(7.62 x 51mm) 16,000

Telescopic Sight for 7.62x51MM Light Machine Gun (LMG) 16,000


Night Sight for Sniper Rifle (TI) 5,500

Night Sight Image Intensifier for Rifle AK-47 14,000

Night Sight Thermal Imaging for Rifle AK-47 13,000

Night Sight for 7.62MM MAG 58 2A1 Medium Machine Gun (TI) 5200

Night Sight for 84MM Rocket Launcher (TI) 15,000

Night Sight for 7.62mm Light Machine Gun (II) 10,600

Night Sight for 7.62mm Light Machine Gun (TI) 26,000

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[ezsasa]

And what's current status...

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some of the RFI's issued in 2017 for Night vision devices and optical devices, we are already seeing on the ground.

since most of the RFI's for rifles were issued in late 2017 and 2018, i guess we will have to wait till next year to know the status. if there are field trials required, time period gets longer.

let's hope that the emergency purchase of those 74000 rifles will be completed faster.

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Army Issues Tender for 6,50,000 indigenous assault rifle. #makeinindia
https://twitter.com/strategic_front

 

[WolfPack86]

I hope its Ghatak assault rifle.

 

[Kchontha]

Are the RFIs for Indian Army for procuring 6,50,00 assault Rifle (7.62 x 39 mm), 5,50,000 Assault Rifle (7.62 x 51mm), 3,50,000 CQB Carbine (5.56 x 45 mm) and 45,000 Light machine Gun (7.62 x 51mm) etc heading towards pitfalls just like their predecessors? Experts comment please.

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[rkhanna]

As we continue this debate. Here is some essential reading for Gun Enthusiasts.

Test compare of 556 NATO vs 762/39 Rounds

(Disclaimer - while reviewing below data keep in Mind that Most engagements happen between 50ms and 150ms max)

https://www.swggun.org/5-56-vs-7-62/

Conclusion: there is little difference between the rounds. Certainly not enough to field 2 entirely different systems (cost / maintaince/ logistics)

 

[ezsasa]

news being re-circulated that AK-103 has been selected for 6.5 lakh wala tender, and OFB is going to be the manufacturing partner. this news started in May-2018.

let's see what happens...