New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[sorcerer]

South African firm Denel taken off the defence blacklist after settlement agreement

Arms manufacturer Denel has been taken off an Indian defence ministry blacklist after the South African company signed a settlement agreement that waived off almost $ 100 million that it would have been entitled to following arbitration proceedings.

The final settlement agreement was signed on July 19, days ahead of a BRICS summit in Johannesburg that will be attended by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, and details how the company was put on the blacklist in 2005, on the basis of two newspaper reports in South Africa. Charges of corruption in the news reports could not be validated during a subsequent CBI inquiry, leading it to file a closure case in 2014.

Formal orders to take Denel off the blacklist were issued on Wednesday, bringing an end to a 13 year exile for the company from the world’s largest market for military imports. While it was cleared of all charges in 2014, it was unable to restart work in the lucrative arms market as legal proceedings were on for several past deals where India had frozen or encashed its bank guarantees.

After the suspension of operations, all ongoing contracts with Indian defence ministry entities had been cancelled, leading to litigation and arbitration that went on for years. ET has learnt that the company has agreed to forfeit almost $ 100 million for the right to come back to the Indian market and a removal from the official blacklist.

The South African entity, which also has joint ventures with debarred firm Rheinmetall, has been keen for a return to the Indian market after the Modi government opened doors for partnerships with private sector companies for major manufacturing projects. Several rounds of meetings have been held with the private sector over the past two years, including companies that have recently entered the defence market. The company is particularly suited for upcoming orders for ammunition supplies to the armed forces in which Indian companies have to create new facilities.


The company’s troubles in India started in 2005, after the defence ministry put all contracts with it on hold. Investigations probed two contracts that the firm had signed in India, a Rs 78 crore deal for procurement of 400 anti material rifles and a Rs 66 crore transfer of technology contract with the

Ordnance Factory Board but failed to find any proof of corruption.

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/65709932.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[rishivashista13]

Procurement of 93,895 close-quarter-battle (CQB) carbines for the Indian Army in a deal worth $553.33 million has run into rough weather. After staff evaluation, two companies — Caracal of the UAE and S&T Motiv of South Korea —have been declared non-complaint by a nine-member committee headed by an Army brigadier.


Sig Sauer of the US, Kanpur-based MKU with French company Thales, Caracal of the UAE and Reliance Armaments with S&T Motiv of South Korea were competing for this deal.

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2018/09/procurement-of-93895-close-quarter.html?m=1



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[binayak95]

Procurement of 93,895 close-quarter-battle (CQB) carbines for the Indian Army in a deal worth $553.33 million has run into rough weather. After staff evaluation, two companies — Caracal of the UAE and S&T Motiv of South Korea —have been declared non-complaint by a nine-member committee headed by an Army brigadier.


Sig Sauer of the US, Kanpur-based MKU with French company Thales, Caracal of the UAE and Reliance Armaments with S&T Motiv of South Korea were competing for this deal.

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2018/09/procurement-of-93895-close-quarter.html?m=1

Now I think, Sig Saur will also be rejected because of single vendor situation....... and nothing will change.

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Mku Thales are the only real competitor. F90 Bullpup AR. Or IA could simply go for X95s ...

 

[Kay]

Procurement of 93,895 close-quarter-battle (CQB) carbines for the Indian Army in a deal worth $553.33 million has run into rough weather. After staff evaluation, two companies — Caracal of the UAE and S&T Motiv of South Korea —have been declared non-complaint by a nine-member committee headed by an Army brigadier.


Sig Sauer of the US, Kanpur-based MKU with French company Thales, Caracal of the UAE and Reliance Armaments with S&T Motiv of South Korea were competing for this deal.

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2018/09/procurement-of-93895-close-quarter.html?m=1



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[WolfPack86]

US-made rifle, UAE carbine to equip Indian Army soldiers
With a Russian AK-103 factory in the pipeline, India's rifle acquisitions could match its diplomatic priorities.

HIGHLIGHTS

• Indian army plans to spend Rs 3,500 cr on rifle acquisition
• Army has cited urgent operational requirements for procurement of weapons
• An official said the rifle procurement is a top priority for the infantry

A US-made battle rifle and a UAE-made carbine have emerged as the lowest bidders for the Indian Army's requirement for equipping its soldiers with a new rifle. The US arm-maker SIG Sauer's SiG 716 finished with the 'L1' or lowest quote for the army's fast track procurement of 72,000 new automatic rifles.

The UAE arms firm Caracal's CAR 816 close-quarter carbine finished 'L1' in a separate bid for 94,000 carbines, when price bids were opened this week.

The SIG weapon chambered for the 7.62x51 mm round beat two contenders, a Caracal battle rifle and a rifle from Israeli Weapons Industries. Caracal's 816 carbine chambered for the 5.56x45 round, priced out a competitor fielded by Thales-Australia.

The army plans to spend Rs 3,500 crore on these rifle acquisitions for which it had issued RFPs on 17 global arms manufacturers in February this year. It has cited urgent operational requirements for the procurement of these weapons. A senior army official called the rifle and carbine procurements a "top priority" for the infantry.

Contract negotiations with the vendor are expected to last over three months before a deal can be signed. The rifle makers have to deliver all their weapons within a year.

Significantly, these will be India's first major purchases of a US-made rifle. Apart from small consignments of M16 rifles for the SFF in the 1960s and M4s for the Special Forces over a decade ago, the Indian army has used European rifles, the FN-FAL, AK-47 type weapons and the indigenous INSAS rifles.

The new carbine will replace the 9 mm Sterling carbines which are being gradually phased out. The new battle rifle which chambers the heavier 7.62x51 round will replace the indigenous INSAS assault rifles which are to be retired soon.

The bulk of the Indian army will, however, be equipped with a new assault rifle chambered for the 7.62x39 round, the same as used by the AK-47 assault rifle. A Request for Information or RFI, the first stage in a lengthy procurement process was floated by the defence ministry last month.

SIG Sauer, a firm with origins in a Swiss-German weapons consortium, is headquartered in New Hampshire, USA. Carbine-maker Caracal is based in Abu Dhabi, UAE.

Both countries are top diplomatic priorities for the Modi led government. These two FTP procurements are to be followed by a government-to-government deal with another diplomatic priority for the Modi government-Russia.

India plans to license-produce the AK-103 assault rifle in one of three Indian ordnance factories which have the capability to build assault rifle.

The AK-103 is a more modern variant of the iconic Russian assault rifle. Talks for the production line were initiated by defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman in Moscow in April this year. The Russian rifle is expected to meet the requirement for the 650,000 assault rifles for which RFIs were floated recently.

Both the SiG and the Caracal carbine are based on the AR-15 rifle designed by legendary US designer Eugene Stoner in the 1950s. If acquired, it will be the first large-scale induction of short-stroke piston-based rifles.

The piston is a feature of gas-operated automatic rifles that use gases generated by a fired cartridge to fire other bullets. (The army's Para-Special Forces units use a small number of US-made M-4 rifles using a similar firing mechanism). The INSAS uses the long-stroke piston used by the AK-47 family of weapons.

The fast track procurements are the closest the Indian army has come to equipping its infantry soldiers with new small arms in over a decade.

The process to replace the troubled INSAS rifle began over a decade ago but has muddled along as the army changed specifications for the replacement two times. It first wanted a rifle which could shoot two types of cartridges-an AK-47 bullet and an INSAS bullet -- then scrapped it for a modified INSAS rifle. This requirement too was scrapped in favour of a new 7.62x51 battle rifle which it now seems likely to acquire.
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...equip-indian-army-soldiers-1352324-2018-09-29

 

[Vinod DX9]

I hoped for Tavor 7. Where as CAR 817 didn't find victory inBattle Rifle competition, in Carbine they won as L1 with CAR 816

 

[WolfPack86]

Finally some thing good is happen Indian Army is finally getting advance assault rifles and carbines.

 

[Hari Sud]

SIG battle rifle is priced at $3000 a piece, it could not be the lowest biddler.

Israeli Galil is priced at $2000 a piece. Then how could SIG could be the L1 bidder.

South Korean battle rifle is priced at about $800 a piece. So is Caracal battle rifle with 7.62x51 is also priced at $800.

All these rifles were in the running.

Hence what made the Army select SIG battle rifle.

 

[aghamarshana]

SIG battle rifle is priced at $3000 a piece, it could not be the lowest biddler.

Israeli Galil is priced at $2000 a piece. Then how could SIG could be the L1 bidder.

South Korean battle rifle is priced at about $800 a piece. So is Caracal battle rifle with 7.62x51 is also priced at $800.

All these rifles were in the running.

Hence what made the Army select SIG battle rifle.

I dunno how these bidding processes take place,but always had a question in mind....Doesn't the arms makers quote a better price for bulk orders?I am a layman with nil knowledge in military acquisitions, I just wonder wouldn't there be a marginal discount for large consignments? Anybody who know please let me know.

 

[binayak95]

SIG battle rifle is priced at $3000 a piece, it could not be the lowest biddler.

Israeli Galil is priced at $2000 a piece. Then how could SIG could be the L1 bidder.

South Korean battle rifle is priced at about $800 a piece. So is Caracal battle rifle with 7.62x51 is also priced at $800.

All these rifles were in the running.

Hence what made the Army select SIG battle rifle.

SIG is known to sell at cost when breaking into a new market. They did the same with the US army's Beretta 92 replacement deal. They make up for profit by later sales and after sales services.

 

[Hari Sud]

I dunno how these bidding processes take place,but always had a question in mind....Doesn't the arms makers quote a better price for bulk orders?I am a layman with nil knowledge in military acquisitions, I just wonder wouldn't there be a marginal discount for large consignments? Anybody who know please let me know.

All of them will quote the bulk cost at much lower than retail. Still do not know how did Sig became the L1.

 

[Jackd]

The hell is going on? What are we buying, I thought Tavor would be the final choice?

 

[itsme]

No. Tavor 7 and micro tavor blzzz.

 

[Kchontha]

Ditched the Israelis for American and American + uae.!?

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[ezsasa]

Ditched the Israelis for American and American + uae.!?

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Tavors are probably gonna continue with para SF, these are for infantry and RR in the valley probably...

 

[ghost]

Some interesting points about about SIG Sauer and Carcal :

1 CARCAL was established in 2007 when UAE decided to become self reliant in small arms .They hired experts around the globe, from countries such as the US, Germany, Russia and India etc.These expert established the R&D ,Manufacturing and quality control ,as it was first time for the UAE to venture into small arms development and production .Now ,not only UAE has become self reliant in small arms but is on the verge of selling their product to India-which has the honor of having world class small arms producing facility since its independence.

2 Yes you heard it right ,there are many Indians working in CARCAL,for example their CAD designer is an Indian.

3 CARCL 716 is based on short stroke piston and is an improved version of Hk 416.

4 The brain behind HK 416 ,SIG SAUER 816 and CARCAL 716 is one - Robert Hirt.

5 Robert Hirt is a German engineer hired by CARCAL,he is the man behind setting up the manufacturing facility to quality control for CARCAL .He is at present the Chief Operating Officer of Caracal.First he was working for HK ,where he developed HK 416, then he moved to SIG sauer where he worked on SIG 817,516, 517 and the MCX programs; from there he was hired by CARCAL.

5 The CEO of Caracal, Hamad Salem Al Ameri, is not your typical CEO or businessman or BABU. He is an active duty UAE Army Special Forces officer who was commissioned in the Royal Military Academy in Sandhurst, UK.Being an end user,he is actively involved in weapon development.

6 Caracal has signed a MoU with MKU for production of assault rifles at MKU proposed facility in Kanpur, Uttar Pradesh. However, it remain to be seen whether these carbine are manufactured here or not ,as the order of 95000 is too small to create new manufacturing facility plus the rifles have to be delivered within a year of contract signing .

7 SIG SAUER past has been shady in India - Abhishek Verma and his wife `bribed’ MHA officials to help Sig Sauer seal deal.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...Sig-Sauer-seal-deals/articleshow/19055735.cms


8 SIG SAUER 816 had also participated in the Pakistani army trials for their new assault rifle.However ,no rifle passed all the tests without issues.The FN SCAR was the only rifle that was finalized, officially accepted, with licensed manufacturing approved.


The crux of the matter is UAE decided to become self sufficient in small arms ,started in 2007 and was not only able to gain self sufficiency in such a short time, but able to produce such world class weapons, that one of the major army of the world -the Indian army is on the verge of buying from them.Honestly l1 from them is not surprising ,as the legitimacy which this deal would provide them world over regarding their weapons is worth more than some profit which they will lose in short term .However ,the point worth pondering is why OFB -which was among one of the most advance rifle factory at time of our independence and has produced world class rifles such as SMLE and SLR is in such a pathetic state today.I blame the Babus,OFB wallas work ethics and the politicians who have been in government at different period of time till date.

Hope the rifle finalized are SIG716 g2 and Caracal 816 a2 which are the latest iteration of these rifles.Also,IMHO it would be best if we source the 7.62 rifle and 5.56 rifle from the same vendor as a package deal,such as carcal 816 and 817.It is much ore practical deal and should be much more cheaper in a package, rather than going in for multiple OEM.

 

[ghost]

With all humility here are few suggestion regarding the upcoming AK 103 deal:

1 Ak 103 is a very good rifle with proven credentials ,which has been upgraded into AK 203(which is purely meant for export),but buying this rifle for the army does not make much sense as the Russians themselves are moving to AK 12/AK 15 platforms, which is evolution of these AK 75/100 series rifles and have been given a go ahead after extensive trials by the Russian army.A new rifle is meant for the next 15-20 years,when Russian themselves are transitioning into new platform,it only make sense to go for the latest version and not for something which is at the end of its life cycle and being phased out in its own country(AK 75/103).Common sense dictate that AK 15/ak 15k should be the natural choice for the army.

2 We can bargain a good deal with Kalashnikov for our self , by proposing to make India the production hub of this rifle for export market .We can bring down cost through economy of scale,low cost labour and localisation of the parts.This can provide competitive edge to these rifles over others in export market.If executed properly it will be beneficial for both Kalashnikov and India.Our best bet will be to produce AK 15 for the army and capf while ak 103 for the police.

4 If somehow we choose to ignore the AK 15 and still insist on going for AK 103 ,then at least make sure it is AK 203 (upgraded AK 103).

5 Army does not exist to serve the OFB. At present as the things stand ,it will be a mistake to involve OFB into this- as concept of workmanship,professionalism,work culture,quality control ,responsibility ,productivity,accountability etc are alien to this organisation.Our best bet is to involve private sector with a clause to invest and start its own R&D by that enterprise along with this order.Technical know how regarding small arms should be transferred from the ARDE to this enterprise for free.If we have to strengthen our future in small arms development ,it is necessary to strengthen the private companies in this field.We should also relax our norms to allow the private sector to develop and sell their products worldover. Private industry in small arms in at a nascent stage in our country,they need all the nurturing and care if we want them to develop into something fruitful in future.


6 The spoon feeding and monopoly of OFB is responsible for the mess regarding small arms. Surity of their survival and lack of accountability have made them a liability,forget about military grade firearms ,they are unable to come up with a decent civilian pistol.The only way forward for this organisation is to bring in the much needed reforms which every defense minister tend to shrug under the carpet.

7 If government would still want to go with the OFB ,at-least let someone from defence services head OFB , abolish the Unions,bring in the audit,set performance target for them ; establish the accountability for it.Introduce the most stringiest quality control checks.

8 The biggest defence scam in India is failure to bell the cat ( defence DPSU ).Either reform them or disinvest them and establish new organisation for defence production directly under the armed forces or let ARDE handle the R&D and shift the production to private sector.If you are serious to establish the brand Made in India in defence sector and some good has to be done regarding defence production ,make quality the number one priority not the L1.


BTW,a contract has been signed between an Armenian company and Kalashnikov Concern concerning the licensed manufacturing of AK-12 and AK 15 .

AK 103

AK 203

AK 15

 

[WolfPack86]

The CAR-816 in 5.56x45mm NATO caliber from @CaracalInt, based on the tried-and-tested American AR-15 platform, lowest bidder in the Indian Army (@adgpi)'s carbine requirement competition:

 

[vishnugupt]

Can anybody enlightens us about what were the initial requirements and what was revised requirements given by Indian army?? furthermore, through some light on features of selected rifle/ carbine and what these weapons offer better than other competitors?
thanks

 

[Jackd]

Thales has filed a complaint with the Defence Ministry regarding the selection of Caracal 816 as L1.