New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[binayak95]

Various rifle bullets.

View attachment 26232

Of these all, I'd love to get my hand on a M1 Garand firing the .30-06 or better yet, a BAR!

 

[devhensh]

In US, for long range competition the 6.5 Creedmore beats everything. You'll see US adopting a variation of 6.5 Creedmore as it's service catridge and rest of NATO countries will follow, in coming years.....

But there is a New Catridge called .224 Valkyrie (a .22 bullet in 6.8SPC case), which stays supersonic till 1300 Yards....which beats them all in efficiency.....

 

[Chinmoy]

Various rifle bullets.

View attachment 26232

One of the old pic of MINSAS...

 

[veerJI]

Of these all, I'd love to get my hand on a M1 Garand firing the .30-06 or better yet, a BAR!

i hv it.. aao kabhi uttar pradesh

 

[Hari Sud]

Guys, you have discussed a lot about rifles in these pages. Army delegation is leaving for abroad to make a selection.

Make a guess which rifle is up in their mind:

1. Galil Ace with 5.45X45 caliber or modified to 7.62x51 about $2,000 listed price

2. European small arms from FN (FN SCAR) or H & K (417 or the 7.62x51) - listed price For FN SCAR at $3,000 or well above $3,000 for German Version

3. Colt full power 7.62x51 rifle for close to $4,000 listed price.

4. Russian very best which is a modernized Ak 47, 7.62x39 listed price under $500.

Let us see who comes up with the best guess.

 

[rkhanna]

Guys, you have discussed a lot about rifles in these pages. Army delegation is leaving for abroad to make a selection.

Make a guess which rifle is up in their mind:

1. Galil Ace with 5.45X45 caliber or modified to 7.62x51 about $2,000 listed price

2. European small arms from FN (FN SCAR) or H & K (417 or the 7.62x51) - listed price For FN SCAR at $3,000 or well above $3,000 for German Version

3. Colt full power 7.62x51 rifle for close to $4,000 listed price.

4. Russian very best which is a modernized Ak 47, 7.62x39 listed price under $500.

Let us see who comes up with the best guess.

HK is banned from selling to India

 

[sreenevasachha]

why cant we select IWI GALIL ACE as standard infantry gun as it is fulfilling make in India condition?
can anybody discuss regarding this

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Guys, you have discussed a lot about rifles in these pages. Army delegation is leaving for abroad to make a selection.

Make a guess which rifle is up in their mind:

1. Galil Ace with 5.45X45 caliber or modified to 7.62x51 about $2,000 listed price

2. European small arms from FN (FN SCAR) or H & K (417 or the 7.62x51) - listed price For FN SCAR at $3,000 or well above $3,000 for German Version

3. Colt full power 7.62x51 rifle for close to $4,000 listed price.

4. Russian very best which is a modernized Ak 47, 7.62x39 listed price under $500.

Let us see who comes up with the best guess.

But it is said that we have zerod on AK 103.

 

[binayak95]

Guys, you have discussed a lot about rifles in these pages. Army delegation is leaving for abroad to make a selection.

Make a guess which rifle is up in their mind:

1. Galil Ace with 5.45X45 caliber or modified to 7.62x51 about $2,000 listed price

2. European small arms from FN (FN SCAR) or H & K (417 or the 7.62x51) - listed price For FN SCAR at $3,000 or well above $3,000 for German Version

3. Colt full power 7.62x51 rifle for close to $4,000 listed price.

4. Russian very best which is a modernized Ak 47, 7.62x39 listed price under $500.

Let us see who comes up with the best guess.

Missing a few guns:

1. Lewis Machine Tools offering which retails in the US at about 1050 USD. Expect mass order price to be significantly less.

2. S & T Motiv (formerly Daewoo's) K2 variant.

3. Tavor 7

4. Caracal 817 AR

And no, the AK 103 is for mass production by OFB for CAPFs and RR/Assam Rifles to replace all present inventory of mix-mash AKMs, East European firearms.

Standard issue Assault Rifles for infantry will be in 7.62x51 NATO.

Honestly I hope its the LWT offering, those are some brilliant guns while I could also see the ACE 52 being accepted into service, given that Punj Lloyd's factory in Haryana already makes parts for the entire IWI small arms family. And the ACE is pretty good, almost zilch perceived recoil and 1.5 MOA at 500 yards.

 

[Chinmoy]

But it is said that we have zerod on AK 103.

AK 103 is to replace the various AKM based models in service across the Paramilitary or state police force.

 

[Chinmoy]

why cant we select IWI GALIL ACE as standard infantry gun as it is fulfilling make in India condition?
can anybody discuss regarding this

GALIL ACE doesn't fulfill Make in India condition.

 

[Chinmoy]

Guys, you have discussed a lot about rifles in these pages. Army delegation is leaving for abroad to make a selection.

Make a guess which rifle is up in their mind:

1. Galil Ace with 5.45X45 caliber or modified to 7.62x51 about $2,000 listed price

2. European small arms from FN (FN SCAR) or H & K (417 or the 7.62x51) - listed price For FN SCAR at $3,000 or well above $3,000 for German Version

3. Colt full power 7.62x51 rifle for close to $4,000 listed price.

4. Russian very best which is a modernized Ak 47, 7.62x39 listed price under $500.

Let us see who comes up with the best guess.

IMO ACE 52 or 53 has the highest possibility followed by Colt.

 

[Doc Mozart]

IMO ACE 52 or 53 has the highest possibility followed by Colt.

While the probability of Galil being chosen is probably the highest among the competition. Galil ace doesn't bring anything radically different to the table imo, might as well go with the OFB design although only after its a bit more polished out. If not the ace, i wouldn't mind the LMT guys getting the tender, they've made some solid ARs and have a great reputation already, serving in the UK and NZ i think. Plus their DMR version could also replace the SVDs, although the Direct Impingement could be a problem as far as the IA is concerned.

 

[rishivashista13]

As far as I know, Colt and Beretta exits from the Indian arms race.
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...n-army-s-small-arms-tender-1232033-2018-05-12

IMO ACE 52 or 53 has the highest possibility followed by Colt.

Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk

 

[nongaddarliberal]

At this rate, new fighter jets and Assault rifles are two things I don't think will happen within my 20s. And I'm 23.

 

[abingdonboy]

So after months of scratching my head at the small arms mess the picture has emerged

70,000+ foreign rifles under FTP
90,000+ foreign carbines under FTP

180,000 OFB 7.62 NATO rifles (if it passes trails)
550,000 foreign rifles *or* OFB 7.62 NATO rifles

75,000 JVPC
200,000+ foreign carbines *or* JVPC (If it meets standards)

(FTP= fast track procurement)

Worst case scenario for carbine role 3 *different* rifles could be in service (FTP, OFB and then whatever wins the MII deal) and 3 different carbines

That’s SIX different weapons systems

When every other army has a SINGLE rifle/carbine


Even the best case scenario is FOUR different small arms (FTP rifle/carbine, JVPC and OFB 7.62*51 rifle)

I mean who the hell in MOD is okaying this nonsense?

I don’t like making these claims but goddamn the Army makes it hard not to allege corruption.

Time and again they scupper domestic efforts by imposing ridiculous ASQRs just so they can justify imports.

No other nation on earth would consider importing ONE MILLION carbines+rifles.

Imagine the damage this will do, can send a rocket to mars but can’t even build a decent rifle.

 

[sthf]

@abingdonboy

Don't go for the statements made for local consumption. Here is the breakdown.

IA uses two calibers right now, has for decades. Rifle in 5.56 (previously 7.62×51) and a carbine in 9mm. This will be replaced again by two calibers, 7.62 NATO for rifle & 5.56 for carbine. So no JVPC in any shape or form (maybe for tank or heli crews but doubtful).

Now lets talk numbers. Much of confusion stems from Ajay Shukla's fuckery. New rifles will be issued only to riflemen in infantry, roughly 220 per battallion which translates to around 90,000 units. Supporting arms, officers will carry 5.56 carbines which will replace vast majority of Insas in service today.


1) There is no place for 7.62 OFB rifle because despite the drama IA can afford to buy 90,000 imported rifles.

2) Equiping supporting arms like medical corps, supply corps, arty & armoured corps with 7.62 rifles, imported or not makes zero sense. So no place for 7.62 OFB here too.

The problem with these discussions is the ego tied to sarkari maal which is blatantly absurd. If Muricans & French can buy rifles from Germany, surely India can buy rifles from Israel.

"We can't even build a damn rifle" or "Be Indian buy Indian" needs to go. People stopped buying HM Ambassadors or HMT watches for a reason.

 

[binayak95]

@abingdonboy

Don't go for the statements made for local consumption. Here is the breakdown.

IA uses two calibers right now, has for decades. Rifle in 5.56 (previously 7.62×51) and a carbine in 9mm. This will be replaced again by two calibers, 7.62 NATO for rifle & 5.56 for carbine. So no JVPC in any shape or form (maybe for tank or heli crews but doubtful).

Now lets talk numbers. Much of confusion stems from Ajay Shukla's fuckery. New rifles will be issued only to riflemen in infantry, roughly 220 per battallion which translates to around 90,000 units. Supporting arms, officers will carry 5.56 carbines which will replace vast majority of Insas in service today.


1) There is no place for 7.62 OFB rifle because despite the drama IA can afford to buy 90,000 imported rifles.

2) Equiping supporting arms like medical corps, supply corps, arty & armoured corps with 7.62 rifles, imported or not makes zero sense. So no place for 7.62 OFB here too.

The problem with these discussions is the ego tied to sarkari maal which is blatantly absurd. If Muricans & French can buy rifles from Germany, surely India can buy rifles from Israel.

"We can't even build a damn rifle" or "Be Indian buy Indian" needs to go. People stopped buying HM Ambassadors or HMT watches for a reason.

Add the severe distrust in OFB maal that has come from decades of use (and I speak from personal experience) and you realise EXACTLY why the IA is keen to see pvt companies take up the mantle of making small arms, tactical gear, sights and accessories, etc.

As I see it, once Punj Lloyd (which seems the logical winner) wins the order for X-95s and Galil ACEs - they should be able to reduce prices to an extent that MoD will be able to tell OFB to Fuck Off and issue mass orders for the above mentioned guns for everyone in the army.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

The whole focus of the army procurement system is to create a demand for import
The imported rifle will be 10 times the cost of indigenous rifle and coupled with cost of production plant cost of new ammunition plant and tied sights & scopes, we are looking at a deal of rupees 10,000 crore rupees for only one lakh Rifles
ACE Is basically INSAS with a beautiful brochure

 

[Vinod DX9]

The three possible finalists are
Tavor 7 (IWI+ Punj Llyod : Israel)
Car 817 (Caracel +Thales + MKU : UAE )
K2-C2 (S&T Motiv + Reliance : RoK )