New Assault Rifles for Indian Army
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Good and accurate narrative. Why can't India develop the best assault weapons systems on the world? Give me DRDO funding and 5 years and I'll turn the tables on this!
The army wanted to replace the heavier 7.62MM SLR, its main assault weapon and Germany's Heckler & Koch's G 41 and Austria's Steyr AUG were short-listed with both vendors offering free transfer of technology in the $ 4.5 million contract.
Thereafter, the army's requirements doubled and the federal government facing a foreign exchange crunch turned down the import proposal.
The ubiquitous DRDO stepped in claiming to have made progress in developing the 5.56mm AR at its Armaments Research and Development Establishment in Pune but it took over a decade before the project fructified.
Weapon experts at the time claimed that the INSAS 5.56mm AR was eventually an 'amalgam' of Kalashnikov, FN-FAL, the G41 and AUG designs and overall not in consonance with modern engineering production techniques which, in turn, would render it expensive.
The INSAS AR was eventually priced at around Rs 16,000-18,000 per rifle compared to the imported Bulgarian AK 47's that cost around $93 each or around Rs 2800 at the prevailing exchange rate.
"The INSAS AR is a non-competitive weapon system and the army became a tied customer with little choice but to pay the asking price however high it might be and whatever operational objections it had to the rifle," a senior Infantry officer admitted.
For, unlike the financially accountable private sector, the OFB's costing is flexible and being government-owned their manpower is considered "free" and cost, time and technological overruns matter little, he added.
The initial INSAS family of 5.56 mm weapons also included a light machine gun and carbine, both of which had long been abandoned necessitating hugely expensive imports nearly two decades later.
Consequently, last December the MoD dispatched a RfP to 40-odd overseas vendors to acquire 44,618 5.56mm close quarter battle carbines and 33.6 million rounds of ammunition for an estimated Rs 2000 crore.
This tender too mandates a 30 per cent offset liability and transfer of technology to the OFB to build around 400,000 CQB carbines to replace the outmoded 9mm model currently being used by the army.
In 2004-05 the army had projected a requirement for 420,000-odd CBQ and new generation protective carbines for its 359 infantry battalions and 66 associated RR units but it took the MoD five years before issuing the RfP for them.
India goes shopping for a new assault rifle - Rediff.com News
Excellent point! I completely agree.
The reporter is smoking from top and bottom while writing this. He conveniently left alone many known facts.
bose
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Nope, your grey matter is Shit!!
Hemu Vikram Aditya
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Sony is a Japanese brand and the rest are Korean brands
All are Korean or Japanese
He looks like a product of rape Paki not Chinese.
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Yup,Sony is Japanese.But 'Soni' is definitely Chinese.So are JVL,BASE.I can get Soni 'extra bass,lol' headset for Rs.50 after hard bargain in Hyderabad.These chinks pushing their 3rd grade electronics onto our footpaths can't understand we no more buy their products.They better ship their garbage to shittistan.Basically Chini economy is built by cheap IP theft.
Hemu Vikram Aditya
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Pandeyji
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It's official this tender would be scrapped too. Well done IA
binayak95
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No, it won't be. This acquisition is to acquire guns for immediate use followed later by mass production in India. Look at the countries being visited, firms from there had partnered up with Indian counterparts during DefExpo 2018. Let's hope that things get clear within the month.
pruthvi24
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wow another study tour another junket sponsored by arm suppliers some top level officers and some Babu's will go enjoy the vaccation come back take money from another arms supplier point out the deficiency in the arms of first supplier set unreasonable parameters scrap the contract call for another scout tour retire from arm forces and MOD write articles and op-eds about how govt is not providing arms for army while sipping costly whiskey that they bought from money of arms suppliers all this while our jawans and officers at major colonel level suffer from Problems defence procurement in India is FUBAR (Fucked Up Beyond Recognition).
This makes sense to me ; especially after reading the article below.
As per me the Country / Vendor /Platform combination is as below. Again , this is just in interest of sharing and may be inaccurate....Although, i am confused why the original Article names Australia (which does use an advanced version of Styer AUG as their service rifle)......
These are some of the best platforms in world, and in my opinion, if an Indian Rifle can match these, then the Indian product should be adopted...
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-under-jv-for-export/articleshow/63753724.cms
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First... The so called best platforms have to perform in indian conditions.
Other than Galil Ace and Tavor 7, None of them are know to pass IA quality tests.
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Israeli weapons have also failed. This is really wierd that India needs to.import rifles. India makes INSAS rifles and other rifles like JVPC, MSMC, MCIWS, Excalibur etc.
Why would India want imported gun? Moreover countries like korea, UAE, Australia are not big time gun manufacturing countries
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Galil ace qualified, but tender was cancelled due to single vendor situation.
https://sputniknews.com/military/201801171060822627-india-pruchases-assault-rifles/
Tavor is currently in use with the forces.
there are pages and pages of discussions on the very questions you are asking.
That is why i mentioned in my previous post, that if an Indian Rifle can match these foreign ones, the Indian rifle should be chosen.(comparison trials)
It's quite obvious, that IA will not only do prolonged testing in Indian conditions, but also with INDIAN AMMUNITION....What they are doing now is just to shorlist the rifles for these tests.
By the way, none of the rifles i mentioned (excluding Galil ACE), appeared in the trials last time, which was cancelled. Even Tavor 7 is a completely new and diffrent rifle that the TAR 21 / X95 used by IA till now. Tavor 7 uses a Short stroke piston, instead of the AK like long stroke used in the earlier Tavors. So Tavor 7 was never tested unlike the TAR 21 in service with IA.
I think IA already knows,what works and what they want in 5.56x45mm(It can be even INSAS 1C, which is a very good and reliable design).......
It's the 7.62x51mm rifles, they need to shortlist and do detailed trials...which was not done anytime earlier .....again i maybe wrong
Hari Sud
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Fools in the Army hierarchy have been searching for a dependable assault rifle for the last ten years. First, excessive faults were found in the INSAS rifle when it faced battle three years after its induction in the Army in 1995. Given time, these faults were rectified and INSAS 1C1 was a pretty good rifle by 2005. But nay sayers (mostly agents selling foreign rifles) had smelled blood & money and kept on naggin and created an impression that Indian soldiers were fielding a defective rifle for any battle. Compared the American M-16 rifle was introduced in 1964 in Vietnam and immediately found itself unwanted because of defects. These were rectified by Colt and Armalite and by 1975, it was a universal standard rifle of the western world. Relatively Ak -47 of the Soviets was mostly defect free when introduced in 1955 and till today is most liked rifle including our security forces. Indian INSAS was mostly copy of four different western and eastern rifle. Hence copy defects were going to remain, if government owned factories without accountability were to mass produce these. Surprisingly these defects were rectified in about ten years but the arms merchants who had smelled money in replacing them were relentless in their pursuit and left no stone unturned to be critical.
Finally GOI/DRDO undertook a multicaliber rifle project. In the meantime search began abroad for rifles under very strict rules of quality, performance and price. This search failed. No multicaliber rifle abroad was good enough. Prototypes were tested but with poor results.
A new rifle by government owned factories (OFB) brought out an Excalibur rifle which addressed all the concerns of INSAS. This was also rejected because quality in a mass produced environment could not be maintained and it will INSAS story all over again. Search abroad also yielded some results but price wise these will cost $2,000 to $3,000 a piece. A very pricey undertaking for close to 600,000 or more rifle purchases. Also the vendor price does not include full transfer of technology.
In just a jiffy, with stroke of pen, the Army changed the caliber of the rifle they wished to have. They in 2013 said that their preference for 5.54x45mm caliber is over. They now wished to have full powered 7.62x51 round and rifle. This bigger round kills, the other one wounds or may kill also.
God behold! A new search began and government factories also began making a prototype of full power rifle. Also enquirers went to outside for full powered rifles and shorter carbines with lower powered round. The government factory at Ishapore came up with full powered rifle but it was rejected a year back as too noisy, has a muzzle flash and recoil is high. All stupid but definitive reasons to reject it, when your mind is set on something abroad.
There are not too many very versatile 7.62x51 full powered rifles, even abroad. The foreign manufacturers can make one but it will be a prototype. Indian brand has been rejected. Now a high powered delegation is leaving for abroad, God knows why, to discuss what with foreign vendors.
Again the prices of the foreign vendors will bankrupt you at $3,000 (FN SCAR) or $2,000 for Israeli Galil Ace. Home made comparably will be around $200 to $400. For what the Army wants at $3,000 or $2,000 everybody has to pay a lot more in taxes.
Today as it stands, if the anti INSAS propaganda is right then the Indian soldier is carrying a defective rifle. Alternatively, all this replace, replace propaganda is driven by interested parties who wish to fill their pockets with people’s money.
There is Russian alternative, which is as good as Galil Ace. That rifle is AK -103. But it also uses a bit of a lower powered round of 7.62x39. Its predecessor of AK-47 is the most well liked rifle but it is not in Indian Army’s preferred list. Also it cost about $400 and Russians will transfer technology to make it at home. That is not what the Indian Army delegation has been asked to look into.
Reader should make up their own mind and if Indian Army is at a fault. It looks that way. Do not blame the bureaucracy as it follows its own procedure for high price acquisitions. First the army has to make up its mind.
Finally GOI/DRDO undertook a multicaliber rifle project. In the meantime search began abroad for rifles under very strict rules of quality, performance and price. This search failed. No multicaliber rifle abroad was good enough. Prototypes were tested but with poor results.
A new rifle by government owned factories (OFB) brought out an Excalibur rifle which addressed all the concerns of INSAS. This was also rejected because quality in a mass produced environment could not be maintained and it will INSAS story all over again. Search abroad also yielded some results but price wise these will cost $2,000 to $3,000 a piece. A very pricey undertaking for close to 600,000 or more rifle purchases. Also the vendor price does not include full transfer of technology.
In just a jiffy, with stroke of pen, the Army changed the caliber of the rifle they wished to have. They in 2013 said that their preference for 5.54x45mm caliber is over. They now wished to have full powered 7.62x51 round and rifle. This bigger round kills, the other one wounds or may kill also.
God behold! A new search began and government factories also began making a prototype of full power rifle. Also enquirers went to outside for full powered rifles and shorter carbines with lower powered round. The government factory at Ishapore came up with full powered rifle but it was rejected a year back as too noisy, has a muzzle flash and recoil is high. All stupid but definitive reasons to reject it, when your mind is set on something abroad.
There are not too many very versatile 7.62x51 full powered rifles, even abroad. The foreign manufacturers can make one but it will be a prototype. Indian brand has been rejected. Now a high powered delegation is leaving for abroad, God knows why, to discuss what with foreign vendors.
Again the prices of the foreign vendors will bankrupt you at $3,000 (FN SCAR) or $2,000 for Israeli Galil Ace. Home made comparably will be around $200 to $400. For what the Army wants at $3,000 or $2,000 everybody has to pay a lot more in taxes.
Today as it stands, if the anti INSAS propaganda is right then the Indian soldier is carrying a defective rifle. Alternatively, all this replace, replace propaganda is driven by interested parties who wish to fill their pockets with people’s money.
There is Russian alternative, which is as good as Galil Ace. That rifle is AK -103. But it also uses a bit of a lower powered round of 7.62x39. Its predecessor of AK-47 is the most well liked rifle but it is not in Indian Army’s preferred list. Also it cost about $400 and Russians will transfer technology to make it at home. That is not what the Indian Army delegation has been asked to look into.
Reader should make up their own mind and if Indian Army is at a fault. It looks that way. Do not blame the bureaucracy as it follows its own procedure for high price acquisitions. First the army has to make up its mind.
Pandeyji
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The army has made up it's mind. It just wants a foreign rifle. No matter whether it performs as well as Indian rifles or whether it could survive the diverse environments IA has to operate in, it just wants a foreign rifle. Otherwise Excalibur is already being used by different armed police forces, JVPC had passed the trials conducted by different forces but they are not good enough for our army who managed to find a dozen faults with them.
And this attitude is prevalent in everything the army does. They accepted TONBO products after they saw them in use by US forces. Guess what the reply was when they approached the IA first? It is seriously deplorable state of affairs in our Army. I think the only solution could be shoving equipment down their throats.
