Know Your 'Rafale'

[mayfair]

the Mirage 2000 when they went near Pak border the PAF F-16 locked on Mirage 2000 and that is natural but they did not fire.
Either you can view this from PAF point of view where PAF planes warned the Mirage 2000 by locking on them that they were in their sights and IAF countered them by locking them with MiG-29 thus ensuring status quo of the border. Else another and more jingoistic and acceptable version in india is that PAF F-16 tried to lock on the Mirage 2000 and MiG-29 locked on the F-16 and kept them at bay..

Wait a minute, where did you get this bit about Mirage 2000s were locked onto by Napaki Solahs?

I very much remember no such news, even Kaiser Tufail who was the Napaki airchief at that time, wrote in his blog that Mig 29s and F-16s were tracking each other, (of course he would never admit that his precious Solahs were lit up like an IPL stadium), but even he never mentioned that Solahs locked onto Mirage 2000s.

As an attempt to save echh&dee, he did claim however, that "LoC violations by IAF reduced after F-16s started patrolling".

Would be much obliged if you post a definitive source for your claims.

 

[BON PLAN]

This would sound very very funny now
The Indian Mirage 2000 were supposed to be dedicated for NUCLEAR STRIKE ROLE, and if they were just fighters, means India was fooled into buying a dedicated fighter for nuclear strike role which perhaps its not capable of,

Also the problem was that IAF had no clue what plane to use, only when they found that Jaguar could not conduct the strikes against targets in high areas that they started to panic, and then the israelis came in and fitted the necessary equipement to conduct the bombing..it was not the French help,. but Israeli help .

Do make a nice search and you can see that PAF F-16 carry AMRAAMS AIM-120 C-5 do upgrade your knowlege else ask someone who knows.

1) When India purchased its 40 first M2000, the sole model available was 'C' = A pure fighter. As Me262 was a pure fighter, you can put some bombs under the wings !
They decided to use it as a nuclear vector because it has the best electronic suite in the indian inventory and because it was heavily protected against EMP. And adding a unique nuclear freebomb, that didn't required a metric precision is easy.

2) During Kargil, if the french didn't want to open the software so as to add new weapon, with or without israeli it would have been impossible.

3) I think you must take so more time to answer : I write "first F16", ie F16A/B, batch 1, 5,10,15 and 20 were initially only able to carry sidewinder. Only MLU and F16C/D added BVR capacity.
It was just to compare early M2000 (indian ones) and early F16.

The knowledge in your case is like jam : the less you have the more you try to spread. But in this particular case (not only this one in fact) : Jam fall on the ground.

 

[BON PLAN]

Locking is not that difficult During the Kargil conflict the PAF F-16 had locked on Mirage 2000
So it was not agility. When you are on tail of someone, the guy in front does not lock on the one at back (except in case of Sukhoi planes now

F16 had locked. India and Pak were in open conflict.... ouahhh... hot, very hot.

If M2000 were not shooted that means M2000 is really a nice fighter (agile, with a nice electronic suite) despite having bombs under the wings (the famous bombs no other plan can carry to Kargil).

CONGRATS M20000 !!! Even Smestarz recognise it.

 

[BON PLAN]

IT was not war time..do note that.

see my post : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/know-your-rafale.32861/page-691#post-1419620

do note that.

 

[BON PLAN]

Simple logic should tell you, that a fighter designed for the navy, can't be an export success (how many exports does the Rafale M has?). That's why the US had the F15 and F16s and now the F35, aimed on Air Forces primarily and with far more export success of course.

Not to mention that despite Rafale being one of the best 4.5th gen fighters, it's exports are far from being a success story. So there are always more factors that makes a fighter a success or not (Dassaults ego problem for example).

So far :
180 sold to France (and 45 to follow to respect the "livre blanc de la défense" format).
96 exported. In just 3 years. (and we all know that India will take at least 36 more, Egyp 12 to 24 more, Malaysia is in the pipe, F35 is nearly crashed in Belgium, A swiss tender to come....)
=> 35% export rate for the moment.

compare with SH18 for exemple.

 

[BON PLAN]

the Mirage 2000 when they went near Pak border the PAF F-16 locked on Mirage 2000 and that is natural but they did not fire.

ohhhh..... so sad ! they didn't fired.... for human rights? no?

 

[BON PLAN]

BTW just to add. PAF has more than 500 AIM-120 C-5 (I am telling you the model no too) since 2010
AdlA does it have Meteor? I dont think so, right? hmmm

only 18 months to wait for India !

And India already have 480 MICA if I remember well. MICA = 80km range (in nice conditions, as every official missile range).

In 1997 a Taiwanese M2000 fired a MICA against a target drone at 67 km. A direct hit ! So range is between 67 and 80 km.... a true BVR missile (even if you will say that AMRAAM is better..... but with a so poor pk !)

 

[Armand2REP]

So far :
180 sold to France (and 45 to follow to respect the "livre blanc de la défense" format).
96 exported. In just 3 years. (and we all know that India will take at least 36 more, Egyp 12 to 24 more, Malaysia is in the pipe, F35 is nearly crashed in Belgium, A swiss tender to come....)
=> 35% export rate for the moment.

compare with SH18 for exemple.

Let us not forget Qatar still has an option for 36 more. The UAE is still biding it's time, Malaysia is waiting on a palm oil decision, Belgium has come back into play, Suisse are having a referendum. Then of course there is Egypt who is in love with this plane and wants to be free of US restrictions could buy many more. India of course will buy at least 36 more. The IN tender is looking good as India doesn't like the idea relying on the US for their fighters. At the worst case scenario we will at least get a 50/50 export rate, potentially much higher.

 

[BON PLAN]

Maintenance cost of the rafale : from dream to reality.

The maintenance CPFH for the Mirage 2000 in 2014 was about 9400 €/hour.
For the Rafale, it was about 10900 €/hour.

Despite being heavier, twin-engined, it was only about 16% more expensive.

And M88 is more and more reliable.

 

[sthf]

Though India and pakistan were not at war (it was suppsoed to be terrorists then remember) so the Mirage 2000 when they went near Pak border the PAF F-16 locked on Mirage 2000 and that is natural but they did not fire.

This is the first time I am hearing it. Would you like to share a source for this?

 

[rone]

Like wise out mig29 have lock on f16 on same point, when fighters inside their buntry they can't be shoot down in peace time..

 

[uoftotaku]

This is the first time I am hearing it. Would you like to share a source for this?

It's bullshit. The F-16's PAF had at the time had neither the radar capable of BVR combat nor were supplied with any AAM other than Aim-9M.

In fact the opp is true, our MiG-29's equipped with R-27 BVR missile successfully kept the F-16's deep in their own airspace.

 

[sthf]

It's bullshit. The F-16's PAF had at the time had neither the radar capable of BVR combat nor were supplied with any AAM other than Aim-9M.

In fact the opp is true, our MiG-29's equipped with R-27 BVR missile successfully kept the F-16's deep in their own airspace.

I know which is why I asked for the source. IAF M2Ks were significantly more capable than Porki F-16s in 1999.

Belittling your own country's military achievements just to prove a point (a false one) is downright dishonourable.

 

[smestarz]

Look here, the turks are flying all around Greece with their F-16s
http://www.ekathimerini.com/227357/...jet-flies-low-over-greeces-farmakonisi-island

Where are the "superior" Mirage 2000

When the Turkish F-16s are armed, the Mirage 2000 keeps itself on the airfield..just to point it..
By the way this is HOT NEWS

You don't know.
All the NATO pilots are trained not to fire to all plane crossing the border, so :
Or he received "politically" the order to fire (because the F16 used to crosse the border too many times).
Or the F16 were agressiv and because the M2000 take the lead on F16 only at the beginning (it turns sharp at the beginning, then degrade its energy so loose the lead) he decided to shoot it before beeing shooted.
And YES, it's a victory. 30 seconds more and maybe it would have been the M2000 at sea (it would have made you so happy).

A question : there was 2 M2000 and 2 F16. The second F16 could have replicated (it's a so nice and so agile and so powerfull plane...). Why not?

 

[uoftotaku]

Look here, the turks are flying all around Greece with their F-16s
http://www.ekathimerini.com/227357/...jet-flies-low-over-greeces-farmakonisi-island

Where are the "superior" Mirage 2000

When the Turkish F-16s are armed, the Mirage 2000 keeps itself on the airfield..just to point it..
By the way this is HOT NEWS

The Greeks are bankrupt if haven't been keeping up with the news. Most of the military is unable to function. They recently tried to sell their M2K's to Croatia as they can't afford to even pay for fuel at the moment. Don't forget also the HAF is equipped with 85 F-16's which are surprise surprise..equally absent from air defence duty

 

[BON PLAN]

Look here, the turks are flying all around Greece with their F-16s
http://www.ekathimerini.com/227357/...jet-flies-low-over-greeces-farmakonisi-island

Where are the "superior" Mirage 2000

When the Turkish F-16s are armed, the Mirage 2000 keeps itself on the airfield..just to point it..
By the way this is HOT NEWS

Actual Greek Mirage 2000 are "-5".
During the first NATO air to air training where France sent M2000-5, the final score was 40-0 .... and the opponents were mainly F16 (main horse of NATO).

I wish you a nice day. And take some rest, you seemed so tired.

 

[BON PLAN]

Look here, the turks are flying all around Greece with their F-16s

FOR YOU GREECE IS ONLY A SINGLE ISLAND ? (Farmakonisi).

As usual you don't have read all : "On Monday, seven Turkish aircraft, four of which were armed, violated the Athens FIR on four separate occasions, the Greek military said, adding that they were chased off by Greek fighter jets."

Go to bed Bro, and have a long sleep.

 

[smestarz]

LOL the MiG-29 kept the F-16 from raping the M2000,
Congratulations to the Indian M2K for not getting raped by PAF F-16
No credits for MiG-29

F16 had locked. India and Pak were in open conflict.... ouahhh... hot, very hot.

If M2000 were not shooted that means M2000 is really a nice fighter (agile, with a nice electronic suite) despite having bombs under the wings (the famous bombs no other plan can carry to Kargil).

CONGRATS M20000 !!! Even Smestarz recognise it.

 

[smestarz]

I know Geography much better than you,.
Now with all these violations why arent the Greeks using their M2K to shoot down Turkish F-16

Like you said that M2K is superior to F-16 so where is the problem? Perhaps the Greeks know the fact.
Surely the French wont put their M2K in action against any F-16., as then the F-16 will surely show the French M2K its true place (M2K = Junk)

FOR YOU GREECE IS ONLY A SINGLE ISLAND ? (Farmakonisi).

As usual you don't have read all : "On Monday, seven Turkish aircraft, four of which were armed, violated the Athens FIR on four separate occasions, the Greek military said, adding that they were chased off by Greek fighter jets."

Go to bed Bro, and have a long sleep.

 

[smestarz]

All the Greeks can do is chase the F-16? hahahahahaha

FOR YOU GREECE IS ONLY A SINGLE ISLAND ? (Farmakonisi).

As usual you don't have read all : "On Monday, seven Turkish aircraft, four of which were armed, violated the Athens FIR on four separate occasions, the Greek military said, adding that they were chased off by Greek fighter jets."

Go to bed Bro, and have a long sleep.