Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

But I must admit that against the giant lipsticked SU-35, Rafale is still very formidable.

I don't agree.
Su35 will be a fierce opponent to all fighter.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

Conclusion: flying brick is the futur. Good Luck !

I want FGFAs and this bird will be more powerful than that.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

I don't agree.
Su35 will be a fierce opponent to all fighter.

LOL! Su 35 is Su 30 MKI with new engine and radar.

 

[gadeshi]

LOL! Su 35 is Su 30 MKI with new engine and radar.

This is another bright BS from you to put into colllection!
Please continue!

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[undeadmyrmidon]

This is another bright BS from you to put into colllection!
Please continue!

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

Su 37 is the granddaddy of Su 30MKI and Su 35BM. Other than engine and radar airframe is nearly identical. Thats why you are able to upgrade MKI to 35M standard.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=88

Know your facts else you look stupid on this forum.

 

[gadeshi]

Su 37 is the granddaddy of Su 30MKI and Su 35BM. Other than engine and radar airframe is nearly identical. Thats why you are able to upgrade MKI to 35M standard.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=88

Know your facts else you look stupid on this forum.

For those who is in tank :

Su-35 (T-10BM) takes its roots from Su-27S (T-10S) directly.
There are no Su-30 (T-10PM) or Su-27M (T-10M, T-10M-7/ Su-37) tensions there.
Actually Su-35S is an original T-10S complete rework (especially in internal structure design and materials).
The full list of differences is somewhere in the proper Su-35S/SK thread.

Su-37 is an export name (unused due to orders absense) for TVC equipped Su-27M (T-10M).
It carries no Su-30 (T-10PM) tensions either.

S-37 is Berkut - the first G5 fighter (PFI-1) contest technology demonstrator.
How can it be T-10BM + T-10PM derivative???

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[Vinod DX9]

According to Janes 360 ...
Dassault says onwards 2018 they have to supply 70 Rafales to export customers
10 yet to delivered for Ezypt for a total 24
36 to India...
It makes 46 total
But Qatar has an order of 36 , not 24...
So how does it count?
Dassault informs that they will take order of further 12 once they get down payment from Qatar
But they have order of 31 for domestic purpose too....

So India have to decide first. If we need more we must order fast otherwise supply will be late as hell. Even to set up facility here will take much time

 

[BON PLAN]

According to Janes 360 ...
Dassault says onwards 2018 they have to supply 70 Rafales to export customers
10 yet to delivered for Ezypt for a total 24
36 to India...
It makes 46 total
But Qatar has an order of 36 , not 24...
So how does it count?
Dassault informs that they will take order of further 12 once they get down payment from Qatar
But they have order of 31 for domestic purpose too....

So India have to decide first. If we need more we must order fast otherwise supply will be late as hell. Even to set up facility here will take much time

India already lost the privilege to become the first export customer (if not the first or maybe all the 36 would have been delivered yet).
I hope UAE will not clinch a deal for 60 in 2018....

 

[Sancho]

India already lost the privilege to become the first export customer (if not the first or maybe all the 36 would have been delivered yet).
I hope UAE will not clinch a deal for 60 in 2018....

India selected Rafale in Jan 2012 and therfore was the first country to do so, the only reason that no deal was fixed, was Dassaults deviation from their own words and agreements, otherwise we could have seen Rafales in India already and the production line started. So blame Dassaults cheap character and poor business habits, like the UAE did and like it gets more and more evident in Belgium too:

ACCaP Program: French offer appears increasingly doomed

France's proposal to offer the Rafale fighter jet to Belgium appears increasingly doomed following new comments from the latter's defence minister, Steven Vandeput. As France didn't correctly answered the RfGP, Dassault's "announcements concerning the economic side can not be taken in account," Vandeput said today to the Belgian Parliament National Defense Commitee.

Without being allowed to push on economic side of their proposal, Paris will undoubtely face difficulties to affect the Belgian final choice. In late December 2017, Belgian medias suggested, based on Dassault documents, that the french planemaker is promising around 20 bn of economic compensation over 20 years, and more than 5,000 high-technology jobs. An information that Vandeput said "to be too good to be true", finding that Dassault was doing an "economic blackmail".

Moreover, Vandeput rightly points out that the French team "chose to communicate by press instead of introducing a proposal into the procedure we launched". He also confirmed that "the governement position didn't change since my answer to the (National Defense) committee in December 20, 2017", when Vandeput declared that he "personally had neither formal nor informal contact about it (the French proposal)" with its French counterpart.

On February 14, Belgium will officially select the best and final offer. It will then be evaluated by no less than 33 experts, splitted in seven different teams.

Strongly criticized by the Belgian MoD, Steven Vandeput (N-VA), the French proposal is currently being screened by the Belgian government, in order to avoid any legal process from the two other contenders, Lockheed Martin and BAE Systems. Needless to say, Belgium will do everything to avoid a new “Agusta–Dassault Scandal”, after which Brussels in the 1990s thoroughly revised its arms procurement process....

https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...french-offer-appears-increasingly-doomed.html


Agusta–Dassault Scandal:

Arrest warrant issued for Serge Dassault
15 MAY, 1996

AN INTERNATIONAL arrest warrant has been issued for Dassault Aviation chairman and chief executive Serge Dassault by Belgian magistrates. He is charged with involvement in a BFr90 billion ($2.8 billion) bribe of Belgian Government ministers in exchange for contracts to buy Dassault Electronique Carapace electronic-warfare equipment for Belgian Lockheed Martin F-16s...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/arrest-warrant-issued-for-serge-dassault-17013/

 

[asianobserve]

India selected Rafale in Jan 2012 and therfore was the first country to do so, the only reason that no deal was fixed, was Dassaults deviation from their own words and agreements, otherwise we could have seen Rafales in India already and the production line started. So blame Dassaults cheap character and poor business habits, like the UAE did and like it gets more and more evident in Belgium too:


https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...french-offer-appears-increasingly-doomed.html


Agusta–Dassault Scandal:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/arrest-warrant-issued-for-serge-dassault-17013/

Why am I not surprised about Dassault? Well, its new dirty trick is to hire snake oil salesmen to make outrageous claims about Rafale...

 

[asianobserve]

And that's why your flight display argument doesn't mean anything for actual combat situations, since Rafale has already proven it's manouverability against the F22 in exercises, which showed how hard it was for the most manoeuvrable US fighter to get behind and kill it.

All these videos, or the funny comparisons to Russian fighters with TVC are simply pointless, especially when you already admitted that it doesn't have comparable flight performance to Rafale.

All F35 has is stealth and that's a credible advantage, which makes it special so far, bit that's it!
Rafale is using passive sensors with 360 degree for more than a decade now, so even F35s passive sensors are only following European examples. Just as European A2A weaponry has a clear edge over US counterparts, AASM was praised by US forces for it's precision compared to JDAM and F35s would love to have MICA missiles, because they add more advantages to stealth fighters with limited load configs of internal weapon bays.

Having been developed 20 years later than Rafale the F-35 certainly has all the advantages against it. In fact, the F-35 has advanced a lot in avionics, networking and sensors against F-22.

Aside from stealth, which in itself is already a significant advantage in a real combat for it allows F-35 to destroy its enemies before they know that the F-35 is even in the area, the F-35 is significantly ahead in sensors against Rafale; it has better EW suite; it is better in maneuvering for WVR dogfight since it can fight "clean;" it has higher AOA capability; it has longer range. And F-35 operators are just starting to scratch the surface of its capabilities.

 

[WolfPack86]

India already lost the privilege to become the first export customer (if not the first or maybe all the 36 would have been delivered yet).
I hope UAE will not clinch a deal for 60 in 2018....

I am very much disappointed hear this from you that you talking like this. France would not have got so much order for Rafales if India would not have been order 36 Rafales. you are the one who scuttled rafales manufacturing by increasing price of rafales and refusing co-operative with HAL and govt of India. Please don't blame us for the failure for the France secure more order for rafales from India.

 

[WolfPack86]

According to Janes 360 ...
Dassault says onwards 2018 they have to supply 70 Rafales to export customers
10 yet to delivered for Ezypt for a total 24
36 to India...
It makes 46 total
But Qatar has an order of 36 , not 24...
So how does it count?
Dassault informs that they will take order of further 12 once they get down payment from Qatar
But they have order of 31 for domestic purpose too....

Whereas the next year may see some orders from UAE too, and it may be a very large order
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamINDRA/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

[smestarz]

Like you said its true that it was the indian evaluation and selection of Rafale undoubtedly did a lot of favours for Rafale, As you see so many years no country wanted to touch Rafale even with a pole. But post Indian selection and the evalution reports shared with some of the countries did help Rafales cause.

I do not see the importance of being "first customer" it does not offer any privilege but rather being later customer.. we were able to get a better deal as we could analyse what was sold to Egypt and Qatar

Few days ago, I was feeling a little bad when someone was terming some members as "snake oil salesman" but after seeing comment from the member (to which you replied) I do not feel bad anymore abt that term being used..Just makes me feel indifferent.

During MMRCA competition, it was being discussed by UPA and it had a very submissive stance (sellers market) maybe there were kickbacks involved and so Dassault easily assumed that they can have their way. They put conditions which were now against what they had accepted in RFP. Dassault tried their best to try and bully, of course they were going to pay kickbacks, but somehow AK Anthony was reluctant to sign it because he knew it would be a big scam if he signed it. When UPA came to power, Dassault tried the same tactics but PARRIKAR was already against Rafale with some of the air staff advisors had told him that Su-30 MKI can handle all the roles that Rafale can, and he proceeded to cancel the RFP. Then Modi with consultantion with Air chief decided to order 36 planes, which were discussed by Parrikar who tried his best to get a good price, Dassault knew that if the negotiations stalled, Parrkar would simply stop the negotiations and then it might be no go for Dassault. Dassault was earlier eyeing the bigger pie of 126+63 +57 and then the pie became smaller 36 and maybe 57, but maybe as time goes the pie might be more smaller and Dassault in its afterthought might wonder "what the hell went wrong?" and if they need some wisdom then they should know that its not a sellers market anymore, not for India which earlier had options of Russian or french planes. If only Dassault had been wise enough perhaps they would have perhaps got a hint of bigger pie
Even now Dassault is adamant, and surely seems MII for Dassault is out, they are trying to push their agenda based on MRCBF requirement, but even there the Americans are bound to offer a better deal to thwart Dassault. Like sometimes back our french friend was saying "Dassault does not depend on Rafale profit, they have better profit from Falcon series of planes .." but here its Boeing, which is commercial airline Behemoth !!! Really cannot compare them..

I am very much disappointed hear this from you that you talking like this. France would not have got so much order for Rafales if India would not have been order 36 Rafales. you are the one who scuttled rafales manufacturing by increasing price of rafales and refusing co-operative with HAL and govt of India. Please don't blame us for the failure for the France secure more order for rafales from India.

 

[smestarz]

Someone said that already
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/know-your-rafale.32861/page-663#post-1395454

According to Janes 360 ...
Dassault says onwards 2018 they have to supply 70 Rafales to export customers
10 yet to delivered for Ezypt for a total 24
36 to India...
It makes 46 total
But Qatar has an order of 36 , not 24...
So how does it count?
Dassault informs that they will take order of further 12 once they get down payment from Qatar
But they have order of 31 for domestic purpose too....

Whereas the next year may see some orders from UAE too, and it may be a very large order
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamINDRA/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

[DAC O DAC]

India selected Rafale in Jan 2012 and therfore was the first country to do so, the only reason that no deal was fixed, was Dassaults deviation from their own words and agreements, otherwise we could have seen Rafales in India already and the production line started.

Totally BS !
HAL is the sole to be blamed. But every body knows that.....

 

[DAC O DAC]

snake oil salesmen

change a little bit please.
We are tired.

 

[DAC O DAC]

Error of post
.

 

[BON PLAN]

I WILL BE AMONG SOME THAT WILL LAUGH WHEN THE SECOND BATCH OF INDIAN RAFALE WILL BE ORDERED....

Like when the first order was inked. Some on this forum saying even some hours before that "never India will take Rafale".

 

[Armand2REP]

Totally BS !
HAL is the sole to be blamed. But every body knows that.....

It wasn't even Dassault that bashed HAL, it was the Boeing audit that started that.