INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[Blue Water Navy]

Ask the army they came up with such stupid requirements

The requirement of barrel change easily. I don't think that is met with Sig sauer 716 or Ak 203 or even with caracal car 816.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

I feel bad for the soldier who received an INSAS rifle. You get the only rifle which is burst fire and has poor reliability.

I wonder why our ordinance factory isn't like HAL or ISRO or DRDO?!

 

[vampyrbladez]

I wonder why our ordinance factory isn't like HAL or ISRO or DRDO?!

The difference is in motivation. One side has young, smart and talented scientists who want to go where no man has gone before or make something extraordinary.

Other side is copying 60 year old designs. I'll leave you to guess which is which.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

The difference is in motivation. One side has young, smart and talented scientists who want to go where no man has gone before or make something extraordinary.

Other side is copying 60 year old designs. I'll leave you to guess which is which.

That is so true. We are able to send a probe to Mars. Yet can't even produce an indigenous rifle. We can make our own tanks, radar system, missile defence system, BVRAAM, fighers jets and in coming few years a stealth fighter jets. Yet, our ordinance factory isn't able to make a good copy or replicate the old AK. We are still relying on Russia to produce an AK type rifle hence the joint venture. I mean just look at the Israelis they made galil and then galil ace which can be compared to any modern rifle. Shame on their workforce.

 

[Mikesingh]

So, what's the protocol followed for Zeroing in the weapon issued to soldiers?

Zeroing of a rifle issued to him is normally done by the individual on the firing range before classification firing. The sights on the rifle are adjusted to suit his style of firing. This weapon remains on his name permanently till he's posted out of the unit.

 

[falcon82]

The difference is in motivation. One side has young, smart and talented scientists who want to go where no man has gone before or make something extraordinary.

Other side is copying 60 year old designs. I'll leave you to guess which is which.

The main difference is that in the Ordinance Factories, you have civil servants who belong to the IOFS running the show whereas in ISRO, DRDO and HAL you have professional engineers and scientists running the show. IOFS officers are always on the look out for lateral deputations to other organisations. You ll be amazed to know that IOFS officers go to organisations like Kendriya Vidyalayas, UPSC, Water Resources Ministry, National Commission for Schedules Castes and the National Commission for Scheduled Tribes etc on deputation. Basically if you have passed the civil services exam, you can go to any organisation on deputation, IOFS officers also go to the Censor Board on deputation, basically wherever a civil servant finds a hole, he will put his d**k in it. Thank God, BCCI mein cricketers ke jagah civil servants ko nahi lete hain as members of the Indian cricket team. I would also like to mention that currently there is an Indian Forest Service officer working in the Ministry of Defence as a Joint Secretary.

 

[Atcjurvin]

The main difference is that in the Ordinance Factories, you have civil servants who belong to the IOFS running the show whereas in ISRO, DRDO and HAL you have professional engineers and scientists running the show. IOFS officers are always on the look out for lateral deputations to other organisations. You ll be amazed to know that IOFS officers go to organisations like Kendriya Vidyalayas, UPSC, Water Resources Ministry, National Commission for Schedules Castes and the National Commission for Scheduled Tribes etc on deputation. Basically if you have passed the civil services exam, you can go to any organisation on deputation, IOFS officers also go to the Censor Board on deputation, basically wherever a civil servant finds a hole, he will put his d**k in it. Thank God, BCCI mein cricketers ke jagah civil servants ko nahi lete hain as members of the Indian cricket team. I would also like to mention that currently there is an Indian Forest Service officer working in the Ministry of Defence as a Joint Secretary.

So basically bureaucrats have fucked the whole country...................

 

[vampyrbladez]

JVPC OFB Production Variant

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Why cant some pvt company try to upgrade INSAS with modern furniture and gadgets.
Like fibre body/stock , pistol grip , integrated p-rails etc ?
I don’t think its too hard to do.
Underlying mechanism is not bad IMO and it has undergone a lot of changes already .
Something similar to what FAB defence is doing for AKs @Unknowncommando 2 and @Gessler @porky_kicker

Well it's too late now. Army is just not interested in investing any money in improving INSAS. Few firms have been regularly pitching their INSAS modification accessories to Army in Expos but looks like it is unlikely to happen. Most of the INSAS in service are with the front line Infantry troops and with SIG716 coming that issue will be solved. Meanwhile Army has decided to upgrade Eastern European AKM clones with MODs. So I am not worried about RR. RR has less no of INSAS in a battalion anyway.

 

[Akula]

View attachment 44362
Well it's too late now. Army is just not interested in investing any money in improving INSAS. Few firms have been regularly pitching their INSAS modification accessories to Army in Expos but looks like it is unlikely to happen. Most of the INSAS in service are with the front line Infantry troops and with SIG716 coming that issue will be solved. Meanwhile Army has decided to upgrade Eastern European AKM clones with MODs. So I am not worried about RR. RR has less no of INSAS in a battalion anyway.

Bro do you have pictures of guns with BEL Trinetra sight?

 

[AbRaj]

View attachment 44362
Well it's too late now. Army is just not interested in investing any money in improving INSAS. Few firms have been regularly pitching their INSAS modification accessories to Army in Expos but looks like it is unlikely to happen. Most of the INSAS in service are with the front line Infantry troops and with SIG716 coming that issue will be solved. Meanwhile Army has decided to upgrade Eastern European AKM clones with MODs. So I am not worried about RR. RR has less no of INSAS in a battalion anyway.

Sorry to say but
I don’t have faith army’s procurement department . Its dysfunctional and doesn’t have farsightedness.

 

[WolfPack86]

Trichy Assault Rifle (TAR) The most successful indigenous rifle in recent times. 17000 ordered by BSF & SSB 6167 ordered by CRPF (500 delivered) 10,000 delivered to BSF, SSB, ITBP, CISF & 1000 to various state police 2000 per month production rate

 

[Gessler]

Some interesting developments :

• Rifle Factory Ishapore has been made the nodal factory for the development of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle as per the latest requirement of Indian Army. ARDE has also been associated in this project. Accordingly, the work project is being carried out at this factory. 50 Nos. 7.62x51mm Assault Rifles with RFI design have already been assembled and test fired at RFI range with very much satisfactory result. As decided during 6th PMT meeting, 30 Nos. more Rifles to be manufactured afresh. These rifles are now under manufacturing. Simultaneously, components are also under manufacturing with ARDE Design.
• Rifle Factory Ishapore successfully developed 5.56mm Assault Rifle/INSAS 1C. The Rifle has been appreciated by various Army as well as MHA units. RFI is now receiving orders for this weapon from various agencies under MHA.
• Rifle Factory Ishapore has also developed 7.62mm Sniper Rifle. The Rifle is now under regular production as order for the same has also being received from agencies of MHA.
• Moreover, initiatives have been taken for developing Rifles & Pistol through Transfer Of Technology (TOT) from foreign weapon manufacturers. In this process Expression Of Interest (EOI) has been floated for development of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle, 7.62x39mm Assault Rifle, 8.6mm Sniper Rifle & 9mm Pistol. Recently, M/s IWI has carried out firing demonstration of their offered weapon of 7.62x51mm caliber as a part of foreign collaboration.
• New IRD Project has been taken on CQB Carbine, under OFB sanction. Simultaneously manufacturing of components under progress. 02 Prototypes are almost ready.

http://rfi.gov.in/DESIGN/WWA.php?f=3

So key takeaways...INSAS-1C with the milled receiver has been ordered by MHA units and is in production.

They allude to 2 different 7.62x51mm efforts which is confusing...first is a joint Ishapore-ARDE 308 (don't think this is the R2 which is INSAS conversion to 308 done internally by Ishapore/OFB, rather I think we could see 308 version of MCIWS designed by ARDE and produced by Ishapore, which could be very similar to an AR-10 in operation, much like how original MCIWS was similar to AR-15).

The second is a foreign 308 manufactured under ToT.

So which way are they going?



One thing's for sure though...like I've been saying for quite a while the 72,400 SIGs we bought was only the fast-track chunk of a much larger requirement of 7.62x51 rifles for frontline forces. Much like how the fast-track deal for 93,000-odd off the shelf 5.56 carbines is only a small chunk of the larger 360,000 carbine requirement which has Make In India clause.

We could be going for up to 250,000 Make in India 7.62x51 rifles (my guesstimate).

+++

Last but not least...another key takeaway is that there's at least SOME movement for the procurement of a modern handgun to replace the old single-action licensed Browning HP aka Pistol Auto 9mm 1A. Hope to see a Glock 19X, IWI Masada or a SIG P320/M17 made in India as Army's service issue sidearm.

@abingdonboy @Unknowncommando 2 @rkhanna @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @ALBY @piKacHHu

 

[ezsasa]

Some interesting developments :

• Rifle Factory Ishapore has been made the nodal factory for the development of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle as per the latest requirement of Indian Army. ARDE has also been associated in this project. Accordingly, the work project is being carried out at this factory. 50 Nos. 7.62x51mm Assault Rifles with RFI design have already been assembled and test fired at RFI range with very much satisfactory result. As decided during 6th PMT meeting, 30 Nos. more Rifles to be manufactured afresh. These rifles are now under manufacturing. Simultaneously, components are also under manufacturing with ARDE Design.
• Rifle Factory Ishapore successfully developed 5.56mm Assault Rifle/INSAS 1C. The Rifle has been appreciated by various Army as well as MHA units. RFI is now receiving orders for this weapon from various agencies under MHA.
• Rifle Factory Ishapore has also developed 7.62mm Sniper Rifle. The Rifle is now under regular production as order for the same has also being received from agencies of MHA.
• Moreover, initiatives have been taken for developing Rifles & Pistol through Transfer Of Technology (TOT) from foreign weapon manufacturers. In this process Expression Of Interest (EOI) has been floated for development of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle, 7.62x39mm Assault Rifle, 8.6mm Sniper Rifle & 9mm Pistol. Recently, M/s IWI has carried out firing demonstration of their offered weapon of 7.62x51mm caliber as a part of foreign collaboration.
• New IRD Project has been taken on CQB Carbine, under OFB sanction. Simultaneously manufacturing of components under progress. 02 Prototypes are almost ready.

http://rfi.gov.in/DESIGN/WWA.php?f=3

So key takeaways...INSAS-1C with the milled receiver has been ordered by MHA units and is in production.

They allude to 2 different 7.62x51mm efforts which is confusing...first is a joint Ishapore-ARDE 308 (don't think this is the R2 which is INSAS conversion to 308 done internally by Ishapore/OFB, rather I think we could see 308 version of MCIWS designed by ARDE and produced by Ishapore, which could be very similar to an AR-10 in operation, much like how original MCIWS was similar to AR-15).

The second is a foreign 308 manufactured under ToT.

So which way are they going?



One thing's for sure though...like I've been saying for quite a while the 72,400 SIGs we bought was only the fast-track chunk of a much larger requirement of 7.62x51 rifles for frontline forces. Much like how the fast-track deal for 93,000-odd off the shelf 5.56 carbines is only a small chunk of the larger 360,000 carbine requirement which has Make In India clause.

We could be going for up to 250,000 Make in India 7.62x51 rifles (my guesstimate).

+++

Last but not least...another key takeaway is that there's at least SOME movement for the procurement of a modern handgun to replace the old single-action licensed Browning HP aka Pistol Auto 9mm 1A. Hope to see a Glock 19X, IWI Masada or a SIG P320/M17 made in India as Army's service issue sidearm.

@abingdonboy @Unknowncommando 2 @rkhanna @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @ALBY @piKacHHu

Looks like my theory of local development moves forward after foreign procurement(partial) is completed, holds true...

 

[Mikesingh]

JVPC OFB Production Variant

Yogi thinks the sights are in the carbine butt!!

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

#Small_Arms_Update
Trichy Assault Rifle (TAR)
The most successful indigenous rifle in recent times.
17000 ordered by BSF & SSB.
6167 ordered by CRPF (500 delivered).
10,000 delivered to BSF, SSB, ITBP, CISF & 1000 to various state police.
2000 per month production rate.
Multiple variants available with stock & rail options.
Compatible with OFB, ARM6 & GP25 UBGL.
Milled receivers just like the Bulgarian Arsenal.
Single & Auto mode with 350m effective range.
Expected to receive more orders as all forces have conducted trials before induction.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Yogi thinks the sights are in the carbine butt!!

He is thinking of buying a few for dealing with the peacefuls!

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

This is going to be history soon

 

[vampyrbladez]

View attachment 44472
This is going to be history soon

I wish civilians could get deactivated INSAS. With the TAR, M1F41 and M5F41 available to the Paramilitary and Police units, they are spoiled for choice.

Even picket/beat cops 'nakabandi' ones have no interest in the INSAS as they have SLRs and surplus AKs.

Not even international Black Market will be interested in an average copy of the FN FNC.

 

[fire starter]

I wish civilians could get deactivated INSAS. With the TAR, M1F41 and M5F41 available to the Paramilitary and Police units, they are spoiled for choice.

Even picket/beat cops 'nakabandi' ones have no interest in the INSAS as they have SLRs and surplus AKs.

Not even international Black Market will be interested in an average copy of the FN FNC.

insas is mostly found with maoists.